lostfan Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 09:24 AM) I've been a Packer fan for decades, so yes, I've watched him. He has talent...too bad he's a FA soon. Also, he's not very good under game time pressure. As soon as it's the 4th quarter he has shown a lack of ability to make a comeback...until he does that, he's not going to be called the successor, at least not by me. The Packers will give him an extension unless they are stupid. I've debunked this myth about him not being a "winner" before but I suppose I can do it again (I have no vested interest in defending Rodgers). The numbers simply don't bear this out. The Packers' defense sucked last year, Rodgers didn't choke. 4th quarter: 87.8 rating, 87/143 60.8% Late and close: 93.7 rating, 54/85, 63.5% (very similar in regular close situations) Playing from behind: 88.9 rating, 160/258, 62% 3rd down: 105.8 rating In losses: 83.1 rating, 60% 2 mins left: 69.4 rating, 62.9% His completion percentage, accuracy, decision-making etc. are pretty even across the board. Besides the 2-minute drill, which is a pretty small sample size (and pretty similar to Favre's in 2007 which you keep pointing to anyway), there are no obvious red flags. His production in all situations are as good as or better than Favre's basically across the board, even going back 2-3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 08:39 AM) The Packers will give him an extension unless they are stupid. I've debunked this myth about him not being a "winner" before but I suppose I can do it again (I have no vested interest in defending Rodgers). The numbers simply don't bear this out. The Packers' defense sucked last year, Rodgers didn't choke. 4th quarter: 87.8 rating, 87/143 60.8% Late and close: 93.7 rating, 54/85, 63.5% (very similar in regular close situations) Playing from behind: 88.9 rating, 160/258, 62% 3rd down: 105.8 rating In losses: 83.1 rating, 60% 2 mins left: 69.4 rating, 62.9% His completion percentage, accuracy, decision-making etc. are pretty even across the board. Besides the 2-minute drill, which is a pretty small sample size (and pretty similar to Favre's in 2007 which you keep pointing to anyway), there are no obvious red flags. His production in all situations are as good as or better than Favre's basically across the board, even going back 2-3 years. All great statistics. But as in baseball, there are so many statistics for other statistics that they often cover up reality. I've watched Rodgers in the final 2 minutes of many games in which they were trailing -- and he lost them. I know you'd love to dismiss that "small sample size", but in football, that "small sample size" is often one of the most telling stats in the game for a QB. He's shown he's incapable of coming from behind with just a few minutes left in the game. He also has a big problem if he has to carry the team -- as his passer rating drops precipitiously when he throws more than 30 passes in a game. Edited August 19, 2009 by Y2HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) But don't get me wrong -- he's good, he just needs more time to grow. Of course the packers will try to resign him, I'm just not sure it will happen. I think the hardest thing for a Packer fan to get a grip on is Rodgers is absolutely terrible on 4th down situations -- which are often crucial. It's in those situations that Favre is at his absolute best, I guess we kinda miss that. Edited August 19, 2009 by Y2HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 09:50 AM) All great statistics. But as in baseball, there are so many statistics for other statistics that they often cover up reality. I've watched Rodgers in the final 2 minutes of many games in which they were trailing -- and he lost them. I know you'd love to dismiss that "small sample size", but in football, that "small sample size" is often one of the most telling stats in the game for a QB. He's shown he's incapable of coming from behind with just a few minutes left in the game. He also has a big problem if he has to carry the team -- as his passer rating drops precipitiously when he throws more than 30 passes in a game. It was his first season starting. He did a damn good job and as I said, in the small sample size, those numbers are actually comparable to Favre (who I've seen blow a game many a time with an untimely INT and I'm sure you have too). Before the Bears got Cutler, I'd have taken him over almost any QB in the NFL. He's only had 8 attempts on 4th down - you really can't draw anything meaningful out of that. 3 of 8 last year, Favre was 2 of 7 in '06, 6 of 13 in '05 etc. you see where I'm going with this. Edited August 19, 2009 by lostfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 09:01 AM) It was his first season starting. He did a damn good job and as I said, in the small sample size, those numbers are actually comparable to Favre (who I've seen blow a game many a time with an untimely INT and I'm sure you have too). Before the Bears got Cutler, I'd have taken him over almost any QB in the NFL. He's only had 8 attempts on 4th down - you really can't draw anything meaningful out of that. To be fair, I agree -- I need to give Rodgers more time. And Rodgers is better than Cutler, for the record...it's not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nixon Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 09:16 AM) I think you guys need to look at the Vikings schedule -- they're not going to hit a good team until like week 7 (Ravens) who have no offense. I easily see the Vikings jumping to a 7-0 start. I guess running games don't count as offense now? Ray Rice, Willis McGahee and McClain say hi. Pretty sure Mason put up over 1,000 yards receiving last season too. Vikings will be lucky to be at .500 by the time their bye hits in week 9. I hope Favre gets his knee shredded in practice so he can go away for good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 10:04 AM) To be fair, I agree -- I need to give Rodgers more time. And Rodgers is better than Cutler, for the record...it's not even close. Eh, debatable. He's going to put up better numbers than Cutler in GB this year, that's almost a certainty, but he has much more to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Nixon @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 09:05 AM) I guess running games don't count as offense now? Ray Rice, Willis McGahee and McClain say hi. Pretty sure Mason put up over 1,000 yards receiving last season too. Vikings will be lucky to be at .500 by the time their bye hits in week 9. I hope Favre gets his knee shredded in practice so he can go away for good. I really hope you are joking -- but it doesn't appear that you are... The Vikings have the #1 rushing defense in the NFL. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't realize that. Running games can say hi to that. Edited August 19, 2009 by Y2HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 08:24 AM) I've been a Packer fan for decades, so yes, I've watched him. He has talent...too bad he's a FA soon. Also, he's not very good under game time pressure. As soon as it's the 4th quarter he has shown a lack of ability to make a comeback...until he does that, he's not going to be called the successor, at least not by me. I don't think Rodgers was that bad in 4th quarters last year. A couple of times he took the team down the field and put the team ahead late. The D than usually gave it up. Which forced Rodgers to come back again, usually with little time left. Rodgers also signed a nice contract during last year. 65 mil over 6 years. Which is nice compared to what Eli got and what Cutler is gonna get. Edited August 19, 2009 by GoSox05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nixon Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) They were #18 in pass defense, why run when you can pass. Looks like teams were able to SCORE on the ground just fine on them, Tenn popped it in 3 times with their OL. Don't get so hung up on the yardage. Weren't you the one complaining that stats don't tell the whole story? The Vikings are soft. They're overrated, their receiving corps is garbage and their coaching staff is among the worst in the league. Why are you so far up their ass as a GB fan? You still carrying a torch for that pill popping attention whore Favre? lol. Week 6 against Baltimore, Week 7 against Pittsburgh IN Pittsburgh and Week 8 against GB in Lambeau. They could be on a 3 game losing streak going into the bye. 7-0. Haha. Edited August 19, 2009 by Nixon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 09:14 AM) I don't think Rodgers was that bad in 4th quarters last year. A couple of times he took the team down the field and put the team ahead late. The D than usually gave it up. Which forced Rodgers to come back again, usually with little time left. Rodgers also signed a nice contract during last year. 65 mil over 6 years. Which is nice compared to what Eli got and what Cutler is gonna get. You're right, I missed that somehow -- he's signed through 2014! That's good news. But I'd like to see how he plays this year before I say it was a good or bad move...being his 2nd year, the scouting reports are out and detailed on him now -- people are going to realize he's really good when throwing to the left, but anywhere else he's pretty average. This year will be a very telling tale about Rodgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 QUOTE (Nixon @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 09:17 AM) They were #18 in pass defense, why run when you can pass. Weren't you the one complaining that stats don't tell the whole story? The Vikings are soft. They're overrated, their receiving corps is garbage and their coaching staff is among the worst in the league. Why are you so far up their ass as a GB fan? You still carrying a torch for that pill popping attention whore Favre? lol. Week 6 against Baltimore, Week 7 against Pittsburgh IN Pittsburgh and Week 8 against GB in Lambeau. They could be on a 3 game losing streak going into the bye. 7-0. Haha. Hehe... Another typical Da Bears fan. You and your kind are really laughable, especially after reading this...it's just laughable. Yes, the Vikings suck. The Bears are going to win the division by going 16-0. Wake up now. Dreams over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nixon Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 I'm a Steelers fan. Nice strawman though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 QUOTE (Nixon @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 09:20 AM) I'm a Steelers fan. Nice strawman though. Yes, nice strawman. Being a steelers fan you know little about the NFC north, or you probably wouldn't be calling the Vikings weak -- when everyone knows they arent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nixon Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Yeah, they beat the Lions by a grand total of 6 points last season. STRIKING FEAR INTO THE HEARTS OF THE NFC NORTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Nixon @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 09:22 AM) Yeah, they beat the Lions by a grand total of 6 points last season. STRIKING FEAR INTO THE HEARTS OF THE NFC NORTH. It's not last year. Nice strawman. Burn. Edited August 19, 2009 by Y2HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 09:19 AM) Hehe... Another typical Da Bears fan. You and your kind are really laughable, especially after reading this...it's just laughable. Yes, the Vikings suck. The Bears are going to win the division by going 16-0. Wake up now. Dreams over. Why are you being such a douchebag in this thread? And who are you to mock other fans when you admitted yourself that you didn't even know your starting QB signed a 6-year extension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 09:23 AM) Why are you being such a douchebag in this thread? And who are you to mock other fans when you admitted yourself that you didn't even know your starting QB signed a 6-year extension? Someone that admits when they were misinformed and wrong...yes, that's a bad thing around here, I forgot. Speaking of douchebags -- look in a mirror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nixon Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 10:23 AM) Burn. Did you high five yourself too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 QUOTE (Nixon @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 09:25 AM) Did you high five yourself too? No, I'm not you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 09:24 AM) Someone that admits when they were misinformed and wrong...yes, that's a bad thing around here, I forgot. Speaking of douchebags -- look in a mirror. I haven't even been involved in this conversation, so I don't see how I've been a douchebag. I have read how you have been speaking towards other people in this thread, though, and it comes off really badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nixon Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 10:26 AM) No, I'm not you. Ooo OOO You're rubber and I'm glue right? I guess that makes me better than all the Vikings receivers combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 09:26 AM) I haven't even been involved in this conversation, so I don't see how I've been a douchebag. I have read how you have been speaking towards other people in this thread, though, and it comes off really badly. You were a douchebag by interjecting and calling me one. I've read how I've been speaking to others, too...and it's really no different than how they spoke to me. They're all right, I'm all wrong. We have differing opinions on the Packers, Vikings, Bears, Steelers and the NFL as a whole...and so what...I can dish it, I can take it...I don't see it as a bad thing. People are passionate about football, I think it's a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 QUOTE (Nixon @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 09:27 AM) Ooo OOO You're rubber and I'm glue right? I guess that makes me better than all the Vikings receivers combined. Well, that's hard to argue...you probably are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 The namecalling stops now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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