PETA and an extension of the Health Care Debate

[jasonxctf]

first the billboard..

 

[jasonxctf]

now the extension part...

 

knowing that our healthcare system is in need of some kind of reform (leaving that bipartisan agreement alone for now), what is every American's duty to improve the overall system? Sacrifice for the greater good.

 

Shouldn't we, as a country, do something individually that would help the system out...

 

- Stop Smoking

- Stop doing drugs

- Eat healthier

- Exercise

- Etc

 

We are asking our country to help us, but what are we doing to help our country?

[southsider2k5]

now the extension part...

 

knowing that our healthcare system is in need of some kind of reform (leaving that bipartisan agreement alone for now), what is every American's duty to improve the overall system? Sacrifice for the greater good.

 

Shouldn't we, as a country, do something individually that would help the system out...

 

- Stop Smoking

- Stop doing drugs

- Eat healthier

- Exercise

- Etc

 

We are asking our country to help us, but what are we doing to help our country?

 

And with everyone else paying for it, does the country have a right to make requirements on your health and behaviors?

[jasonxctf]

well i think before requirements, you'd need to make a public plea. (similar to some other requested sacrifices we've made in history)

[NorthSideSox72]

well i think before requirements, you'd need to make a public plea. (similar to some other requested sacrifices we've made in history)

before?

 

Other than smoking, which is more dangerous than many things already illegal, I don't think you should regulate those health things at all. For lots of reasons. In fact, I find the idea abhorrent, and so would most of the country.

 

[mr_genius]

before?

 

Other than smoking, which is more dangerous than many things already illegal, I don't think you should regulate those health things at all. For lots of reasons. In fact, I find the idea abhorrent, and so would most of the country.

 

Obesity is a complete epidemic; basically 30% of the US population is super fat. The obese have massive health problems, maybe worse than smokers. Have a fat tax to pay for health care. Every time a fat person buys food they get an extra tax.

 

why only go after smokers?

 

 

look at the map put together by the CDC (scroll down a little when at the site). shows some bad trends

 

http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/trends.html

Edited August 20, 2009 by mr_genius

[jasonxctf]

before?

 

Other than smoking, which is more dangerous than many things already illegal, I don't think you should regulate those health things at all. For lots of reasons. In fact, I find the idea abhorrent, and so would most of the country.

 

regulation is one thing, even though i think regulation of alcohol and drugs is a no brainer.. but maybe creating a healthy person or exercise credit? reward the good behavior?

 

make buying gym memberships, running shoes, bikes, etc tax deductible? cap the max deduction at $250 per person (similar to the teacher buying classroom supplies tax credit) so any abuse would have a minimal tax effect

[Balta1701]

regulation is one thing, even though i think regulation of alcohol and drugs is a no brainer.. but maybe creating a healthy person or exercise credit? reward the good behavior?

 

make buying gym memberships, running shoes, bikes, etc tax deductible? cap the max deduction at $250 per person (similar to the teacher buying classroom supplies tax credit) so any abuse would have a minimal tax effect

How about we do things in the opposite way. Stop giving giant subsidies to corn farmers, increase the subsidies for fruits and vegetables, put a price on carbon so that high energy processed foods cost more.

[jasonxctf]

i guess the point of my rant, is that a major reason for the healthcare problem we face, is because of the poor choices we all make. (eating too much crappy food, smoking, drinking too much, drugs, not working out, etc)

[ChiSox_Sonix]

While we're at it we should ban all fast food restaurants, stop importing chocolate, make tobacco farmers grow alternate crops, re-institute prohibition, and institute the drug-trafficking policy of many SE Asian countries (death penalty). That'll fix us, and should alleviate much of the burden of costs on the health system.

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

While we're at it we should ban all fast food restaurants, stop importing chocolate, make tobacco farmers grow alternate crops, re-institute prohibition, and institute the drug-trafficking policy of many SE Asian countries (death penalty). That'll fix us, and should alleviate much of the burden of costs on the health system.

This is what I was getting at, you can't do these things.

 

But I will continue to say that cigarettes are an exception, given that they have such a high risk to public health, and that we are essentially allowing people to buy an addicitve, killer drug.

 

[ChiSox_Sonix]

This is what I was getting at, you can't do these things.

 

But I will continue to say that cigarettes are an exception, given that they have such a high risk to public health, and that we are essentially allowing people to buy an addicitve, killer drug.

 

It's still cuts into that personal freedom of choice though. I hate smoking, and agree with the laws keeping it out of public places, but what makes tobacco different from alcohol? I agree it does lead to an increase in chances of health problems down the road for each individual, I just have a hard time with the whole regulation of individuals right to make choices concerning themselves.

[Balta1701]

It's still cuts into that personal freedom of choice though. I hate smoking, and agree with the laws keeping it out of public places, but what makes tobacco different from alcohol? I agree it does lead to an increase in chances of health problems down the road for each individual, I just have a hard time with the whole regulation of individuals right to make choices concerning themselves.

I could drag this down the drug-legalization route but I think there's a better way to look at it. The government does all sorts of things to encourage or discourage behaviors using the tax law. We may disagree with some of them from each side, but the concept has been well established going all the way down to the local level. We want certain types of businesses to survive, so we subsidize their product or we give them a tax break. We want people to buy houses, so we give homeowners a gigantic tax break in the mortgage interest deductions. We want people to stop smoking, so we've started taxing the Hell out of cigarettes. We want people to invest in retirement so we give huge tax advantages for people putting money in the stock market. We want people to have health insurance so we give a gigantic tax credit for businesses that provide it.

 

There's no reason why we can't use this already-existing framework. Sure a "Pop tax" may sound funny, but on paper, it's a sound policy. You want people consuming less high calorie, low nutritional value foods? make them more expensive. You want people drinking less? Tax it more. People still keep the choice, but the government makes it more advantageous for you to choose not to engage in that behavoir.

[southsider2k5]

It's still cuts into that personal freedom of choice though. I hate smoking, and agree with the laws keeping it out of public places, but what makes tobacco different from alcohol? I agree it does lead to an increase in chances of health problems down the road for each individual, I just have a hard time with the whole regulation of individuals right to make choices concerning themselves.

 

Including health insurance for instance...

[jasonxctf]

I could drag this down the drug-legalization route but I think there's a better way to look at it. The government does all sorts of things to encourage or discourage behaviors using the tax law. We may disagree with some of them from each side, but the concept has been well established going all the way down to the local level. We want certain types of businesses to survive, so we subsidize their product or we give them a tax break. We want people to buy houses, so we give homeowners a gigantic tax break in the mortgage interest deductions. We want people to stop smoking, so we've started taxing the Hell out of cigarettes. We want people to invest in retirement so we give huge tax advantages for people putting money in the stock market. We want people to have health insurance so we give a gigantic tax credit for businesses that provide it.

 

There's no reason why we can't use this already-existing framework. Sure a "Pop tax" may sound funny, but on paper, it's a sound policy. You want people consuming less high calorie, low nutritional value foods? make them more expensive. You want people drinking less? Tax it more. People still keep the choice, but the government makes it more advantageous for you to choose not to engage in that behavoir.

 

exactly.

 

for example, would a tax break for gym memberships encourage people to sign up at health clubs. sure. so then the health clubs get more members, meaning that they hire more personnel and more equipment. plus existing equipment will need to be replaced more frequently. could be an economic/health stimulus program all rolled into one.

[kapkomet]

First, yea, it's the government's place to do all of this. Uh huh. They KNOW what's right and not and will set tax code accordingly.

 

Second, let's tax the s*** out cigarettes, and make tobacco the villian and watch it STILL not make a difference on how they use the tax money from it. Hypocritical. (I'm sure there's some f***ed up "progressive" data out there that will get posted next. Who cares.)

 

[Balta1701]

Second, let's tax the s*** out cigarettes, and make tobacco the villian and watch it STILL not make a difference on how they use the tax money from it. Hypocritical. (I'm sure there's some f***ed up "progressive" data out there that will get posted next. Who cares.)

Huh?

[jasonxctf]

yeah im confused too.

 

 

[Y2HH]

I'm not.

[NorthSideSox72]

I'm not.

That's because you are a Kappie (my new term for the groupies who love Kap's rantings).

 

[Y2HH]

That's because you are a Kappie (my new term for the groupies who love Kap's rantings).

 

I wouldn't consider myself any sort of groupie. I'm an opinionated asshole who loves to play devils advocate at times, and while I tend to agree with Kap more often than not, that doesn't mean I agree with everything he says and nothing you say.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I wouldn't consider myself any sort of groupie. I'm an opinionated asshole who loves to play devils advocate at times, and while I tend to agree with Kap more often than not, that doesn't mean I agree with everything he says and nothing you say.

 

Agreeing with Kap in this forum isn't allowed. Everything he says is nuts and you're just naive to think otherwise.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

I wouldn't consider myself any sort of groupie. I'm an opinionated asshole who loves to play devils advocate at times, and while I tend to agree with Kap more often than not, that doesn't mean I agree with everything he says and nothing you say.

It's always different. Obama is the messiah.

 

Sorry. I think my body was taken over by the spirit of Kap for a second there.

[kapkomet]

Dang, I have a dilemma now. The Straw Man might have to change to Kappie Leader. But one is just as good as the other.

 

[Y2HH]

Dang, I have a dilemma now. The Straw Man might have to change to Kappie Leader. But one is just as good as the other.

 

At minimum I request a high rank in your Kappie army as I was a subscriber before it became cool (and it will in the future).

Edited August 21, 2009 by Y2HH