Is Ozzie Too Complacent ?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Despite the slumps of Dye and Konerko they are occupying their usual places in the lineup. Oh sure you see Kotsay at 1st base once in a while but why is JD never the DH ? Why can't Quentin play RF ? Rios should be in CF every day yet he's got 4 or 5 days off in the last 10 days or so. Pods should never play CF and his OBP is plummeting. He's not getting any more walks and getting picked off too often. Isn't it time to try a 3/4 of Beckham and Quentin. Beckham seems to hit well with men on base and Q's power stroke is coming on strong.

 

In his short time with the Sox I've seen Rios execute the hit and run perfectly twice, hitting the ball to the vacated 2nd base side both times. Should he be tried batting 2nd ? Alexei hit very well in the 2 hole earlier.

 

There's just no way the Sox shouldn't have taken 2 out of 3 at home against a terribly slumping O's team especially when we had our 3 best pitchers going.

 

It's time for Ozzie to get out of his funk and maybe the team will follow his lead.

Edited August 25, 2009 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Wise Master Buehrle]

I'm sorry, but it is all on the players now to do their jobs. Ozzie coming out and having a b****fest with the reporters isn't going to change anything. If anything it will put added pressure on the players. All he needs to do is keep making the lineups and keep being positive (like the article I read on whitesox.com earlier). It's up to the players to do their jobs now. The real question is, are our players too complacent?

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

So you're going to tell me that the lineup doesn't need some kind of jump start? That you would leave Dye and Konerko batting 3/5 ? That you would keep playing Dye in RF and resting Rios so much ?

[Wise Master Buehrle]

So you're going to tell me that the lineup doesn't need some kind of jump start? That you would leave Dye and Konerko batting 3/5 ? That you would keep playing Dye in RF and resting Rios so much ?

 

The only thing I would even suggest is putting Q back in the 3-hole like last year. Thome at #5 to me is better then at #4.

 

Dye and Konerko will be fine. Players slump. Even Gordon the Great is slumping. They are the guys we depend on, thus they stay in the middle of the order.

 

And who said I would rest Rios? I'm an advocate of Rios being the every day CF, actually.

 

We just have to deal with what we have. I seriously doubt Dye and Konerko will carry their slumps to the end of the season. There's no point in punishing them for a slump, they are vets and everyone slumps. The players have to work it out themselves at this point.

[Flash Tizzle]

I'm sorry, but it is all on the players now to do their jobs. Ozzie coming out and having a b****fest with the reporters isn't going to change anything. If anything it will put added pressure on the players. All he needs to do is keep making the lineups and keep being positive (like the article I read on whitesox.com earlier). It's up to the players to do their jobs now. The real question is, are our players too complacent?

That's the issue, here. Right now Dye doesn't deserve to be in the third position. And he sure as hell doesn't deserve to be in RF. I'll guarantee the reason behind having Dye in RF every start, opposed to a DH on occasions, is he's playing for a contract; and significant time as a DH lowers his value. I'm sure he'd make a scene out of it, so rather than do what's best for the team we're appeasing a multi-millionaire in Dye. I don't even believe it's a conspiracy. No one can tell me the coaching staff doesn't see what we do in Dye turning singles into doubles and doubles into triples on a nightly basis.

 

I believe this is the issue with having players like Konerko and Dye around. That is, veterans who have proven themselves as productive players in past years, and that alone gives them the right to work out their troubles at spots in the lineup where their struggles are hurting the ballclub. Guillen's just too damn scared to move them around because they're veterans. Granted, not a lot can be done with Konerko -- but I'd atleast try moving him down two spots and bringing up AJ. At this point in the season, on this roadtrip, how can it hurt?

Edited August 24, 2009 by Flash Tizzle

[Wise Master Buehrle]

That's the issue, here. Right now Dye doesn't deserve to be in the third position. And he sure as hell doesn't deserve to be in RF. I'll guarantee the reason behind having Dye in RF every start, opposed to a DH on occasions, is he's playing for a contract; and significant time as a DH lowers his value. I'm sure he'd make a scene out of it, so rather than do what's best for the team we're appeasing a multi-millionaire in Dye. I don't even believe it's a conspiracy. No one can tell me the coaching staff doesn't see what we do in Dye turning singles into doubles and doubles into triples on a nightly basis.

 

I believe this is the issue with having players like Konerko and Dye around. That is, veterans who have proven themselves as productive players in past years, and that alone gives them the right to work out their troubles at spots in the lineup where their struggles are hurting the ballclub. Guillen's just too damn scared to move them around because they're veterans. Granted, not a lot can be done with Konerko -- but I'd atleast try moving him down two spots and bringing up AJ. At this point in the season, on this roadtrip, how can it hurt?

 

Seriously? The guy is one of our top producers since 2005, and now he hits his first slump of the season, he needs to be moved down? NOW, not earlier in the season, we HAVE to move him away from RF? I'm sorry but Dye's deficiencies in the outfield aren't any more apparent this week then they were on opening day. We made a commitment to have Jermaine Dye as the White Sox right fielder in 2009, and we had better honor it. The only move I see as being worthy is moving Q to #3, JD to #4, Thome to #5 and PK to #6.

 

We're talking like Jermaine Dye is on the same level offensively as Kosuke Fukudome in 2008. Kosuke deserved to be demoted. Dye does not.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

That's the issue, here. Right now Dye doesn't deserve to be in the third position. And he sure as hell doesn't deserve to be in RF. I'll guarantee the reason behind having Dye in RF every start, opposed to a DH on occasions, is he's playing for a contract; and significant time as a DH lowers his value. I'm sure he'd make a scene out of it, so rather than do what's best for the team we're appeasing a multi-millionaire in Dye. I don't even believe it's a conspiracy. No one can tell me the coaching staff doesn't see what we do in Dye turning singles into doubles and doubles into triples on a nightly basis.

 

I believe this is the issue with having players like Konerko and Dye around. That is, veterans who have proven themselves as productive players in past years, and that alone gives them the right to work out their troubles at spots in the lineup where their struggles are hurting the ballclub. Guillen's just too damn scared to move them around because they're veterans. Granted, not a lot can be done with Konerko -- but I'd atleast try moving him down two spots and bringing up AJ. At this point in the season, on this roadtrip, how can it hurt?

I agree wholeheartedly. This team has talent. Maybe just maybe we need to find the right way to combine the talent to turn it into a winning ball club on a semi-nightly basis. It's getting a bit late in the season to just let slumping hitters ride it out. We need wins pronto and in bunches.

Edited August 24, 2009 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Wise Master Buehrle]

I agree wholeheartedly. This team has talent. Maybe just maybe we need to find the right way to combine the talent to turn it into a winning ball club on a semi-nightly basis. It's getting a bit late in the season to just let slumping hitters ride it out. We need wins pronto and in bunches.

 

Demoting Jermaine Dye and Paul Konerko is not going to help us get wins in bunches. We've made this bed we have currently, and we're going to sleep in it. Ride it out. There's still like 35 baseball games left. We're either going up or going down with the guys we got. No one deserves to be demoted.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Seriously? The guy is one of our top producers since 2005, and now he hits his first slump of the season, he needs to be moved down? NOW, not earlier in the season, we HAVE to move him away from RF? I'm sorry but Dye's deficiencies in the outfield aren't any more apparent this week then they were on opening day. We made a commitment to have Jermaine Dye as the White Sox right fielder in 2009, and we had better honor it. The only move I see as being worthy is moving Q to #3, JD to #4, Thome to #5 and PK to #6.

 

We're talking like Jermaine Dye is on the same level offensively as Kosuke Fukudome in 2008. Kosuke deserved to be demoted. Dye does not.

But the whole point is he is not producing NOW and hasn't been since the AS break. Move him down in the order and let him bust out of it, but keeping him in the 3 hole is just asking for losses.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Demoting Jermaine Dye and Paul Konerko is not going to help us get wins in bunches. We've made this bed we have currently, and we're going to sleep in it. Ride it out. There's still like 35 baseball games left. We're either going up or going down with the guys we got. No one deserves to be demoted.

We need a streak of some kind and it hasn't happened all year. I'm not saying its Dye's or Paulies fault . It's a team wide thing and a product of bad D and other factors. There's no sense in keeping the lineup the same . Managers always try differe\nt combos to see if it can provide a spark. So why can't Ozzie ? .500 ball is not acceptable with the talent we have on the field just ask our GM.

[Flash Tizzle]

Seriously? The guy is one of our top producers since 2005, and now he hits his first slump of the season, he needs to be moved down?

Who cares what he has done in past years? It has absolutely no bearing on his production this season. If you're response to that is, "well, past success proves he can rebound," then I'd simply say, he can rebound from a spot lower in the lineup without as many RBI opportunities. Since the All-star break (118ABs) this is his line -- .186/.289/.586. He should be no higher than the 4th spot. Konerko hasn't been on fire either, but his OPS is 100 points higher over the same time span. If it were up to me I'd have Quentin 3rd, Thome 4th, Konerko 5th, Dye 6th.

NOW, not earlier in the season, we HAVE to move him away from RF? I'm sorry but Dye's deficiencies in the outfield aren't any more apparent this week then they were on opening day.

We didn't have Rios at the beginning of the season. And I know it's impossible to expect him to permanently move from RF, but why not put him as a DH on occasion?

Edited August 24, 2009 by Flash Tizzle

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

After All-Star Chicago White Sox 32 118 13 22 1 0 4 16 35 16 22 0 0 .289 .297 .186

After All-Star Chicago Cubs 32 110 20 36 11 2 4 19 63 22 24 0 2 .439 .573 .327

 

Since you mentioned Fukudome needed a demotion you can compare their stats right here. Same amount of games after the AS break. Fukodome has 11 double 4 hr's. Dye has 1 double and 4 hr's. Fukodome is hitting .327 , Dye .186 Total bases Fukodome 63, Dye 35. OBP Fukodome .439, Dye .289 . Slugging Fukodome .573 , Dye .297 . Still think Dye doesn't need to move lower in the batting order ? That's just pitiful from Dye. I know I didn't compare it to Fukudome's 2008 like you mentioned but this isnt the 2008 season and in 32 games since the 2009 AS break Fukudome is hitting better and fielding better then his counterpart on the South side.

Edited August 24, 2009 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[nitetrain8601]

I think it's a matter of all the guys slumping all at the same time.

[WCSox]

Moving JD and Paulie down in the lineup would be fine. Benching them wouldn't. Not only are our other options inferior, but treating veterans who have carried this team on their backs for years that way would reflect poorly on the franchise.

 

Edited August 25, 2009 by WCSox

[Harry Chappas]

Moving JD and Paulie down in the lineup would be fine. Benching them wouldn't. Not only are our other options inferior, but treating veterans who have carried this team on their backs for years that way would reflect poorly on the franchise.

 

Boston is doing it with their captain

[WCSox]

Boston is doing it with their captain

 

Varitek is 37 and his OPS has reached .760 once in the past four years. He's lucky that he wasn't released last year, when he put up an OPS of .672.

Edited August 25, 2009 by WCSox

[Friend of Nordhagen]

Moving JD and Paulie down in the lineup would be fine. Benching them wouldn't. Not only are our other options inferior, but treating veterans who have carried this team on their backs for years that way would reflect poorly on the franchise.

 

What reflects badly on the franchise is having a team that I have never once thought of this year as a fighting, resilient group. Something about this team -- at its core -- is just not right.

 

(I can't believe it. No sooner did I write this than Hawk actually says that they've been resilient all year. Hawk, as usual, is full of it.)

Edited August 25, 2009 by Friend of Nordhagen

[Quin]

Quick, some reporter out there call the Sox crap and meaningless and question Ozzie and Kenny's manhoods.

 

That'll fire 'em up.

[whitesoxbrian]

Podsednik

Beckham

Quentin

Thome

Konerko

Pierzynski

Ramirez

Dye

Nix

 

Is it really all that difficult?

[southsideirish71]

Podsednik

Beckham

Quentin

Thome

Konerko

Pierzynski

Ramirez

Dye

Nix

 

Is it really all that difficult?

 

Take Dye out and put in Rios and it works.

[greg775]

How's Rios doing as a Sox? I haven't paid that close of attention, but it doesn't seem like he's tearing it up. He hasn't hit a dinger yet, has he?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

How's Rios doing as a Sox? I haven't paid that close of attention, but it doesn't seem like he's tearing it up. He hasn't hit a dinger yet, has he?

Yea he has and a few doubles and a couple of nicely executed hit and runs. But he's been sitting a lot. Kenny can't be very happy about that. He's got to be out there every day.

[BigSqwert]

Nah. Why utilize your best OF defender when you can trot out Pods and Dye to perform a Ringling Brothers imitation?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Nah. Why utilize your best OF defender when you can trot out Pods and Dye to perform a Ringling Brothers imitation?

I'm putting you on ignore

[Wanne]

Yea he has and a few doubles and a couple of nicely executed hit and runs. But he's been sitting a lot. Kenny can't be very happy about that. He's got to be out there every day.

 

You bring up an interesting point maybe. Maybe Kenny would like to have Dye back next year at a reasonbable price...but if Ozzie keeps trotting him out there Kenny may just say screw it and just let Dye walk (which I would anyway) to avoid these issues.