Contreras to pen; Peavy to start Saturday

[League]

The sox website says that it's being broadcast on WGN as well.

[PeavyTime]

Now we're at 50/50

[Texsox]

Even Wilson Betemit?

 

I'd rather have seen him being considered for MVP. I always want to see the guys wearing the uniform succeed, and can't be happy when they fail.

 

If a guy sucks, has sucked for the last three years, then i don't give a damn what he did in 2005. It has no bearing on the present. I want to win now, i want to experience 2005 AGAIN, that's not going to happy if we keep running a "good feelings tour" out their.

 

Nor will the long term be good if players rush rehab to help out now, and have it blow up in their face. I believe it was Ventura who worked his ass off to get back only to have the Sox toss in the white towel. Perhaps if I was Peavy, I'd be looking at Contreras being released and thinking, I better be very certain I am ready to start or they may throw me under the bus.

 

And both ideals can be achieved by sending him to the bullpen and allowing him to finish out the contract.

[Balta1701]

Perhaps if I was Peavy, I'd be looking at Contreras being released and thinking, I better be very certain I am ready to start or they may throw me under the bus.

 

And both ideals can be achieved by sending him to the bullpen and allowing him to finish out the contract.

No one is getting thrown under the bus with $60 million or so left on their deal.

[ptatc]

Fine, we can keep being pussies and allowing our players to perform like utter s*** with absolutely no consequence. We can't move a guy out of the third spot in the order because it would offend him. We can't take a guy out of the rotation until he becomes a complete embarrassment.

 

Sign with the White Sox and you'll never be held to a decent standard again!

 

You perform, you keep playing regularly. You don't perform, you keep playing regularly. You win either way, plus you get all of the money you're not earning.

 

With this ideal in mind, no one is allowed to have an off year. Beleive it or not these are people. They have slumps and difficulties. Some the public know about, others such as injuries, we don't.

 

You don't earn the respect of grown men by intimitading them into playing well. If anything baseball is a sport that if you are too wound up you play poorly. If a player is truly giving 100% effort you can demote them but you don't treat them like crap.

 

This is all under the assumption that they are giving 100%. This was always the problem Gullien had with BA. The team didn't feel he was giving his team 100% and that his focus was elsewhere.

 

The White Sox management will give a player every chance to do well, especially if they have given the team everything they have. Contreras has shown some signs of putting it together in some starts. I'm sure that's why they stayed with him. It just hasn't happened.

 

In a case like Contreras he not only played well for them but busted his rear to return from injury to help the team. He deserves respect for his efforts. Demoting him is warranted. Treating him like a 2 year old is not.

Edited August 25, 2009 by ptatc

[Texsox]

No one is getting thrown under the bus with $60 million or so left on their deal.

 

That was a poor example, I couldn't think of a better one to illustrate my point. But I see ptac came through, saying it better than I could.

[The Ginger Kid]

addition by subtraction; i think the count will be great out of the pen

[Flash Tizzle]

With this ideal in mind, no one is allowed to have an off year. Beleive it or not these are people. They have slumps and difficulties. Some the public know about, others such as injuries, we don't.

 

You don't earn the respect of grown men by intimitading them into playing well. If anything baseball is a sport that if you are too wound up you play poorly. If a player is truly giving 100% effort you can demote them but you don't treat them like crap.

My issue here is, sure, proven veteran deserve to hit out of slumps; but they shouldn't be hitting out of slumps at spots in the order where production is crucial, such as the third or fourth. With Dye, especially, it's inexcusable that after 100+ ABs of sub .200, sub .600 ops production out of our #3 hitter he was finally moved.

 

If these guys are grown men, surely they understand that when you're not producing (and not just over a week, but a month), you should be moved down in the lineup.

 

 

[WCSox]

My issue here is, sure, proven veteran deserve to hit out of slumps; but they shouldn't be hitting out of slumps at spots in the order where production is crucial, such as the third or fourth. With Dye, especially, it's inexcusable that after 100+ ABs of sub .200, sub .600 ops production out of our #3 hitter he was finally moved.

 

If these guys are grown men, surely they understand that when you're not producing (and not just over a week, but a month), you should be moved down in the lineup.

 

I agree with this. There's no way that JD should still be hitting 3rd.

 

[kapkomet]

addition by subtraction; i think the count will be great out of the pen

I dunno - he's either lights out or just not - and that gets really hard out of the pen. Which Count do you get? Would you trust that in the playoffs if we got there?

 

[Balta1701]

I dunno - he's either lights out or just not - and that gets really hard out of the pen. Which Count do you get? Would you trust that in the playoffs if we got there?

For one inning...yeah. Coming in with runners on base? No. For a couple extra innings under pressure? Yeah. He's been able to get through a couple innings each of his last few outings before imploding. Until he proves that he can't do it, let's try it.

[ptatc]

My issue here is, sure, proven veteran deserve to hit out of slumps; but they shouldn't be hitting out of slumps at spots in the order where production is crucial, such as the third or fourth. With Dye, especially, it's inexcusable that after 100+ ABs of sub .200, sub .600 ops production out of our #3 hitter he was finally moved.

 

If these guys are grown men, surely they understand that when you're not producing (and not just over a week, but a month), you should be moved down in the lineup.

 

My reply was to the point of the DFA for Contrereas. Moving players down in the lineup or to the bullpen is different than getting rid of them to make a point. I fully support moving players down in a lineup.

[Milkman delivers]

I've argued here several times that JD should be moved down in the order, and have no problem whatsoever moving Jose to the 'pen. That's a hell of a lot different than DFAing them.

 

 

 

Jose and JD have both performed extremely well at times this year (and Jose worked his ass off to be able to pitch again back in March), so the argument that they're not earning their paychecks is dubious at best. Both are also under contract for only a month and a half longer, so I don't see what the point of your rant is.

 

Again, releasing players because they're slumping and you're pissed off is juvenile and counter-productive.

 

Slumping, ha!

[Milkman delivers]

With this ideal in mind, no one is allowed to have an off year. Beleive it or not these are people. They have slumps and difficulties. Some the public know about, others such as injuries, we don't.

 

You don't earn the respect of grown men by intimitading them into playing well. If anything baseball is a sport that if you are too wound up you play poorly. If a player is truly giving 100% effort you can demote them but you don't treat them like crap.

 

This is all under the assumption that they are giving 100%. This was always the problem Gullien had with BA. The team didn't feel he was giving his team 100% and that his focus was elsewhere.

 

The White Sox management will give a player every chance to do well, especially if they have given the team everything they have. Contreras has shown some signs of putting it together in some starts. I'm sure that's why they stayed with him. It just hasn't happened.

 

In a case like Contreras he not only played well for them but busted his rear to return from injury to help the team. He deserves respect for his efforts. Demoting him is warranted. Treating him like a 2 year old is not.

 

I blame the team's constant lackadaisical play and lack of any emotion/sense of urgency on the fact that we have no punishment for guys who perform well below any reasonable standards for a significant amount of time.

 

I believe making an example of Contreras, along with letting Dye walk after this year, would go a long way in showing them that they can't get too comfortable.

[WCSox]

Slumping, ha!

 

Perhaps this is news to you, but you can't treat human beings the in same way that you treat the theoretical players on your fantasy team.

 

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

It's on the bottom line of ESPN saying that this will likely happen.

[thedoctor]

they'll probably have a pretty good idea after his bullpen session tomorrow.

 

trib story

[ptatc]

I blame the team's constant lackadaisical play and lack of any emotion/sense of urgency on the fact that we have no punishment for guys who perform well below any reasonable standards for a significant amount of time.

 

I believe making an example of Contreras, along with letting Dye walk after this year, would go a long way in showing them that they can't get too comfortable.

 

This is an awful reason to punish someone in general. Being emotional has absolutely zero correlation with playing well or caring for the game. Some people have mellow personalities and deal with stress by internalizing it.

 

Not caring about playing is a very difficult thing to judge from the outside. If you begin to puclicly do this to players you will lose them qucikly. This is not high school or even college where emotions can help a lesser talented player play a little better. All of these players are talented.

 

Emotions in baseball usually have a deletorious effect. If you're amped up you will squeeze the bat or ball tighter and not perform at the optimal level. In baseball the most important factor for a player is comfort and consistency.

 

We aren't talking about unproven rookies. We are talking about established veterans. They may be past thier prime or even time but the only way to decide that is to let them play and decide. Punishment on a perceived lack of emotion is not a good way to get respect from the players.

 

If they performing poorly that's one thing. Players slump. Even for 1/2 or full seasons. We've seen what nagging injuries and slumps have done to guys like Konerko. We didn't know the extent of his injuires at the time.

 

So before you call for players heads for "lack of emotion" Let it play out

[Milkman delivers]

Perhaps this is news to you, but you can't treat human beings the in same way that you treat the theoretical players on your fantasy team.

 

I don't play fantasy.

 

And f*** yes you can.

[Milkman delivers]

This is an awful reason to punish someone in general. Being emotional has absolutely zero correlation with playing well or caring for the game. Some people have mellow personalities and deal with stress by internalizing it.

 

Not caring about playing is a very difficult thing to judge from the outside. If you begin to puclicly do this to players you will lose them qucikly. This is not high school or even college where emotions can help a lesser talented player play a little better. All of these players are talented.

 

Emotions in baseball usually have a deletorious effect. If you're amped up you will squeeze the bat or ball tighter and not perform at the optimal level. In baseball the most important factor for a player is comfort and consistency.

 

We aren't talking about unproven rookies. We are talking about established veterans. They may be past thier prime or even time but the only way to decide that is to let them play and decide. Punishment on a perceived lack of emotion is not a good way to get respect from the players.

 

If they performing poorly that's one thing. Players slump. Even for 1/2 or full seasons. We've seen what nagging injuries and slumps have done to guys like Konerko. We didn't know the extent of his injuires at the time.

 

So before you call for players heads for "lack of emotion" Let it play out

 

Fine, then you punish them for lack of production, which is also something I mentioned. Either way, they're not seeing any real repercussions for their performance or lack of intensity.