Financial News

[StrangeSox]

The bill has handwritten scribbles no one can read.

 

https://twitter.com/SenatorDurbin/status/93...src=twsrc%5Etfw

 

That's the official bill.

[LittleHurt05]

And it gets worse each voting cycle.

 

As the partisan lines grow deeper and deeper it's only gonna get worse. Many Congresspeople don't even have to think anymore, they just vote along party lines and are guaranteed re-election. There really needs to be a serious third party emerge or it is only gonna get worse.

[caulfield12]

Just what the DeVos family needs, more tax breaks

http://qctimes.com/business/the-latest-dem...f56135743e.html

 

 

Democrats have taken to the Senate floor to attack a planned amendment to the tax bill that would give a break to a conservative college in Michigan.

 

Pennsylvania Republican Sen. Patrick Toomey acknowledged he'd sponsored the language and said Hillsdale College would benefit from it.

 

Toomey defended Hillsdale as "a wonderful institution" and said other schools might qualify for the tax break, too. His provision would shield schools that receive no federal aid from language in the bill that taxes the investment income of some colleges and universities.

 

Democrats say Toomey's provision was written in a way that only Hillsdale would qualify for the reduction. They complain that some well-known conservatives have connections to the school, including Trump administration Education Secretary Betsy DeVos.

 

Of course, Sen. Toomey vociferously opposed earmarks two years ago...

[RockRaines]

No real conservative should be in favor of a bill like this.

[StrangeSox]

No one should be in favor of rewriting the tax code of the biggest economy in earth in a few hours.

[StrangeSox]

The attempt to redefine a fetus as a person got taken out in a Byrd bath.

 

https://twitter.com/mcclure111/status/93680...src=twsrc%5Etfw

[caulfield12]

No real conservative should be in favor of a bill like this.

 

It’s pretty pathetic when Marco Rubio starts to sound reasonable wanting to reallocate less than 1% of that 15% business tax reduction to middle class families with three or more children....you would think ALL Americans would consider that preferable to big corporations being taxed a lower rate than our six biggest competitors internationally.

[Balta1701]

It’s pretty pathetic when Marco Rubio starts to sound reasonable wanting to reallocate less than 1% of that 15% business tax reduction to middle class families with three or more children....you would think ALL Americans would consider that preferable to big corporations being taxed a lower rate than our six biggest competitors internationally.

But a 20% statutory tax rate is higher than our competitors - even if only small businesses pay that. That's the scam. Large businesses pay 0%, high income taxpayers categorize themselves as businesses and pay 0%, small businesses pay 20%, the middle class pays 15-20% counting the payroll tax. That's the point. Small businesses can't grow larger even if they have good ideas because they are overtaxed.

[Balta1701]

No one should be in favor of rewriting the tax code of the biggest economy in earth in a few hours.

They stopped caring. Haven't you noticed that by their silence here? As soon as no demycrat was in power they didn't care about any of this. deficits, procedure, all the important things we couldn't do with that thing in office.

[caulfield12]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-tax-bill-demo...-035637905.html

 

At least four GOP senators blocked the Hillsdale/DeVos tax exemption sponsored by Toomey

Murkowski, Collins, Deb Fischer and Kennedy

 

 

The Senate bill would drop the highest personal income tax rate from 39.6 percent to 38.5 percent. The estate tax levied on a few thousand of the nation's largest inheritances would be narrowed to affect even fewer.

 

Deductions for state and local income taxes, moving expenses and other items would vanish, the standard deduction — used by most Americans — would nearly double to $12,000 for individuals and $24,000 for couples, and the per-child tax credit would grow.

 

The bill would abolish the "Obamacare" requirement that most people buy health coverage or face tax penalties. Industry experts say that would weaken the law by easing pressure on healthier people to buy coverage, and the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office has said the move would push premiums higher and leave 13 million additional people uninsured.

 

Drilling would be allowed in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Another provision, knocked out because it violated Senate budget rules, would have explicitly let parents buy tax-advantaged 529 college savings accounts for fetuses, a step they can already take but which anti-abortion forces wanted to inscribe into law. There were also breaks for the wine, beer and spirits industries, Alaska Natives and aircraft management firms.

 

 

[caulfield12]

But a 20% statutory tax rate is higher than our competitors - even if only small businesses pay that. That's the scam. Large businesses pay 0%, high income taxpayers categorize themselves as businesses and pay 0%, small businesses pay 20%, the middle class pays 15-20% counting the payroll tax. That's the point. Small businesses can't grow larger even if they have good ideas because they are overtaxed.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteve...m=.0960d59b4a3b

The GOP tax bill is straight out of 1929

 

 

This is how it should work under Trump campaign logic:

 

The 20% tax rates should only be applied to companies who have a vast majority (let’s say 2/3rds or 75%) of American workers in their corporations. Companies who rely on foreign manufacturing, foreign customer service/outsourced call centers, and H1Bs should keep the current tax rates.

 

 

 

 

The University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business runs an ongoing survey of top economists spanning a wide number of specialties and political outlooks. The panel includes multiple Nobel Prize winners, White House veterans, and former presidents of the American Economic Association. Recently, they were asked about the Republican tax reform bills. The results weren’t encouraging.

 

The first question was straightforward. Would they agree that if the US passed a tax bill “similar to those currently moving through the House and Senate,” GDP would be “substantially higher a decade from now”? Of the 42 economists polled, only one thought the Republican bill would boost the economy. The plurality said it wouldn’t, and the remainder were uncertain or didn’t answer.

 

The survey includes an optional space for respondents to add a comment, and a few of the comments are notable. “Of course not,” wrote the University of Chicago’s Austan Goolsbee, who served as chief economist for President Obama. “Does anyone care about actual evidence anymore?”

 

A number of the economists argued that tax policy simply isn’t as powerful a lever as Republicans want to believe. “Tax policy appears to have little effect at the margin on GDP growth in OECD countries,” wrote MIT’s David Autor, an eminent trade economist. “Doubt it will substantially change things either way,” wrote the University of Chicago’s Anil Kashyap. “Aside from the redistribution of wealth, hard to see this changing much,” wrote Richard Thaler, who just won the Nobel Prize in economics.

 

The only economist to say the bill would increase GDP was Stanford’s Darrell Duffie, and he added the concern: “Whether the overall tax plan is distributionally fair is another matter.”

 

The second question asked whether passage of the Republican tax bills would mean “the US debt-to-GDP ratio will be substantially higher a decade from now than under the status quo.” Here, too, the news was grim from Republicans. In this case, all but one economist agreed that the bills would blow up the deficit, and the outlier, Stanford's Liran Einav, turned out to have misread the question — he later clarified that he also agrees the bill would add to the debt.

 

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/201...x-plan-igm-poll

Edited December 2, 2017 by caulfield12

[LittleHurt05]

No one should be in favor of rewriting the tax code of the biggest economy in earth in a few hours.

 

"I'm just a bill" didn't do as good of a job explaining the process as I thought.

 

The House and Senate bills have many differences so now they get together, rewrite it and both vote again? What was the point of these votes then?

[LittleHurt05]

They stopped caring. Haven't you noticed that by their silence here? As soon as no demycrat was in power they didn't care about any of this. deficits, procedure, all the important things we couldn't do with that thing in office.

 

The silence here is because "they" have all been banned or pushed away by insults and attacks for thinking differently.

 

[RockRaines]

The silence here is because "they" have all been banned or pushed away by insults and attacks for thinking differently.

Who is "they." This board has a lot of conservatives on it, however this isnt anything even remotely close to a conservative philosophy on economics. Its neither Liberal or conservative. I dont know what you call it.

[ptatc]

As the partisan lines grow deeper and deeper it's only gonna get worse. Many Congresspeople don't even have to think anymore, they just vote along party lines and are guaranteed re-election. There really needs to be a serious third party emerge or it is only gonna get worse.

Agreed. It's more than just getting elected. The rhetoric is bordring on hatred which really makes both parties at fault. Its for this principle I voted third party in the presidential election.

[ptatc]

Who is "they." This board has a lot of conservatives on it, however this isnt anything even remotely close to a conservative philosophy on economics. Its neither Liberal or conservative. I dont know what you call it.

Compromise?

[StrangeSox]

"I'm just a bill" didn't do as good of a job explaining the process as I thought.

 

The House and Senate bills have many differences so now they get together, rewrite it and both vote again? What was the point of these votes then?

 

Reconciliation conference to craft a bill both houses can pass or the house just passes what the Senate did. My guess is the House does just that early next week, which was the plan with the healthcare bills.

Edited December 2, 2017 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

Flake voted for the tax bill after the White House promised to include him in discussion to fix DACA.

 

A White House staffer laughed when asked if they had given Flake a firm commitment to actually get DACA done (link: http://bit.ly/2iAMp5K) bit.ly/2iAMp5K

[StrangeSox]

Compromise?

This bill was not a compromise bill.

[LittleHurt05]

Reconciliation conference to craft a bill both houses can pass or the house just passes what the Senate did.

 

So you're saying there's still a chance?? (Insert Dumb and Dumber meme)

[ptatc]

This bill was not a compromise bill.

If it isn't liberal nor consevative philosophy then what is it?

Edited December 2, 2017 by ptatc

[StrangeSox]

Hypothetically but I'd expect the House to just pass the Senate plan. They're desperate to pass something, and their donors have threatened to cut them off if they don't.

 

I know you might benefit from the pass through part, but any thoughts on the tax plan more broadly? The bill isn't very popular, less popular than the Clinton and Bush 41 tax hikes even, so I'm curious what supporters who aren't multimillionaires see in it.

[StrangeSox]

If it isn't liberal nor consevative philosophy then what is it?

 

Well, I'd say that it actually is perfectly in line with modern conservative philosophy to enrich the wealthy at the expense of everyone else, but there are more ideologies than American conservatism or liberalism. Maybe just straight up plutocracy more than anything, really.

 

The bill doesn't really include anything you'd see in a modern liberal tax plan.

[ptatc]

Well, I'd say that it actually is perfectly in line with modern conservative philosophy to enrich the wealthy at the expense of everyone else, but there are more ideologies than American conservatism or liberalism. Maybe just straight up plutocracy more than anything, really.

 

The bill doesn't really include anything you'd see in a modern liberal tax plan.

Ok. I was honestly curious when someone said it was neither conservative nor liberal.

[LittleHurt05]

Hypothetically but I'd expect the House to just pass the Senate plan. They're desperate to pass something, and their donors have threatened to cut them off if they don't.

 

I know you might benefit from the pass through part, but any thoughts on the tax plan more broadly? The bill isn't very popular, less popular than the Clinton and Bush 41 tax hikes even, so I'm curious what supporters who aren't multimillionaires see in it.

 

I'm in no way a supporter of it, there's too much stuff like the estate tax that has no benefit other than lining pockets. I have to read more about the pass through tax, cause it might not help the real smallest businesses anyway. Some of the poor/middle class will receive tax cuts, but those will come at the expense of the other half of the middle class that will see tax increases, especially if they itemize. A big wash.

 

In the end, it seems like a standard conservative plan. Give more money to the people and companies that employ the everyday citizens. With more money, they will create more jobs and have more production and stimulate the economy, at least that's the rationale. In some situations it works but in many it just creates a bigger income gap as they just keep the money to themselves.