Financial News

[southsider2k5]

It's not the news media they care about, they own enough of that.

 

It's wall street that matters. They're the only ones who can say enough and have the teaists listen.

 

You can tell by all of the reporting about hte REpublicans holding Barack hostage that they totally own the media...

[Balta1701]

You can tell by all of the reporting about hte REpublicans holding Barack hostage that they totally own the media...

And by all the compromising steps the tea party has taken in response.

[clyons]

LOL at telling the President to "get out of the way". He's the one pushing FOR this. The reason it isn't getting done is the people to his left screaming about cuts, and the people to his right screaming they refuse to do anything different on revenue.

 

I've blamed Obama for an awful lot of bad policy so far, but on this, he's absolutely not the problem. I'd put the majority of blame on the fact that the GOP made a grand bargain to support tea party policies to the point of refusing any attempt and compromise, and then to a lesser but still significant extent, the lefties refusing to see that the government's spending is out of control.

 

I agree with most of this, especially to the extent this entire issue is being dominated by ideological and political extremes. And I also think Obama has moved more than the House leaders have, as is evidenced by the grief he's getting from his liberal base. To me, Boehner and Cantor haven't come close to risking similar ire from the Tea crowd.

Edited July 23, 2011 by PlaySumFnJurny

[kapkomet]

I agree with most of this, especially to the extent this entire issue is being dominated by ideological and political extremes. And I also think Obama has moved more than the House leaders have, as is evidenced by the grief he's getting from his liberal base. To me, Boehner and Cantor haven't come close to risking similar ire from the Tea crowd.

 

 

Why?

 

Because this s*** has to stop. When does it? Why must the government continue to spend and spend and spend and spend and spend? Oh, because someone at Exxxxxxxon or Goldman Sachs might get rich. Those corporate jets that Obama has a hard on for (nevermind he's got the biggest one in the world) have to be taxed.

 

Who makes those corporate jets? Who supplies what is necessary to make them? Who supplies the clothes? The boots? The gloves? The machines? The electricity? The cutters and tools? The buildings that are built to build those jets? Who gets the property taxes already on said buildings (local government, which is fine, at least it's local)?

 

Oh, but let's just continue to bastardize everything "rich" and make the government bigger and bigger. It works. See Europe, who most of you just want to become so much like. Except Germany lowered taxes a few years back and they're growing more then any other country in Europe right now.

[Balta1701]

So the U.S. government should use tax dollars to actively subsidize heavy manufacturing to create jobs?

[kapkomet]

So the U.S. government should use tax dollars to actively subsidize heavy manufacturing to create jobs?

 

The real answer is no, but they currently do. They incentivize who pays them the most. See SC Boeing plant.

[Balta1701]

Oh, and since you referenced Germany...

 

The evil socialist horrible worst thing ever tax rates that Obama wanted the top tier marginal rate to return to is 39%, the rate during the Clinton years, from wonderful capitalist best economy ever Bush years 35%.

 

Here's the German tax rate. The marginal tax rate 45%.

 

 

Similarly, the German corporate taxrate is ~30% as well, which is higher than most industries pay in the U.S.

 

And then there's the whole socialize medicine thing. And the fact that a big part of ther eason why their economy is working right now is that their government has heavily invested in green technology manufacturing, and they're still the world's top producer of solar panels. Oh, and they're involved in Europe's cap and trade system.

 

I agree. Our system would work a lot better if it were closer to the German system, higher upper tier tax rates, higher corporate tax rates, a solidly designed health care system, and a cap and trade system for carbon emissions.

[kapkomet]

Humongous tax difference between individuals and corporations, while we are doing both.

 

And marginal, average, and effective are COMPLETELY different things.

[southsider2k5]

So the U.S. government should use tax dollars to actively subsidize heavy manufacturing to create jobs?

 

I'm pretty sure that was your exact argument why we couldn't cut the public sector...

[southsider2k5]

Humongous tax difference between individuals and corporations, while we are doing both.

 

And marginal, average, and effective are COMPLETELY different things.

 

No way!

[kapkomet]

No way!

 

 

According to liberals, no way. We all need to pay our fair share... just a little more... just a little more... just a little more...

[clyons]

This guy speaks to my earlier point:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/07/23/zick....html?hpt=hp_t2

 

 

This whole debate infuriates me. You have the president, who voted against raising the ceiling as a Senator, now deeming it crucial, and representatives who voted to do it multiple times when their party was in the White House, now refusing to do so on "principle." The hypocrisy on both sides is galling.

 

I'm not as bright or as informed as many who post here seem to be (or believe themselves to be), but I think if a deal isn't done and all goes to s***, the GOP has more to lose politically, regardless of who may be "actually" at fault. I think a default perception in these types of White House-congressional showdowns is that to the "average" American the president (whoever he is) tends to come out looking presidential, while Congressional leadership (in this case GOP House leadership) just looks obstructionist. That's what saved Clinton in '95.

 

I think the GOP faces almost a kind of damned either way risk on this one, because they risk alienating Average Joes on one hand, and the Tea crowd on the other.

 

Not saying who's right or wrong, just adding my 2 cent read of the political tea leaves.

[mr_genius]

You can tell by all of the reporting about hte REpublicans holding Barack hostage that they totally own the media...

 

media coverage has been very pro-obama (as usual). thankfully, i don't think the media can save Obama in 2012.

[Balta1701]

Humongous tax difference between individuals and corporations, while we are doing both.

 

And marginal, average, and effective are COMPLETELY different things.

And on all of those, Germany is substantially higher than the U.S. rate. That's easy to check. Corporate rates. Marginal rate. Average rate. Effective rate. Each level, German rates are 10 percentage points higher than the U.S., except on people with incomes lower than 8000 euros.

 

[Balta1701]

This guy speaks to my earlier point:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/07/23/zick....html?hpt=hp_t2

 

 

This whole debate infuriates me. You have the president, who voted against raising the ceiling as a Senator, now deeming it crucial, and representatives who voted to do it multiple times when their party was in the White House, now refusing to do so on "principle." The hypocrisy on both sides is galling.

 

I'm not as bright or as informed as many who post here seem to be (or believe themselves to be), but I think if a deal isn't done and all goes to s***, the GOP has more to lose politically, regardless of who may be "actually" at fault. I think a default perception in these types of White House-congressional showdowns is that to the "average" American the president (whoever he is) tends to come out looking presidential, while Congressional leadership (in this case GOP House leadership) just looks obstructionist. That's what saved Clinton in '95.

 

I think the GOP faces almost a kind of damned either way risk on this one, because they risk alienating Average Joes on one hand, and the Tea crowd on the other.

 

Not saying who's right or wrong, just adding my 2 cent read of the political tea leaves.

The other thing that saved Clinton in 1995 was an economic recovery.

 

That isn't happening now and it won't be happening any time soon. This would be throwing a stick of dynamite into a fire on a day with a Santa Anna wind blowing.

[Balta1701]

Apparently the hashtag #f***youwashington would be trending on the twitterverse if they hadn't censored that one.

[Y2HH]

And on all of those, Germany is substantially higher than the U.S. rate. That's easy to check. Corporate rates. Marginal rate. Average rate. Effective rate. Each level, German rates are 10 percentage points higher than the U.S., except on people with incomes lower than 8000 euros.

 

 

This is in comparison to GDP, so it would be easily skewed.

 

The United States GDP is around 15 trillion. Germany's is 3.3. As a matter of fact, to surpass the US, it takes the ENTIRE eurozone, and depending who's numbers you use, they still don't. That said, the US *IS* a relatively low tax country, but we also don't have "free" healthcare and other such insane benfits (for example, look at the Greece retirement age).

[Balta1701]

This is in comparison to GDP, so it would be easily skewed.

 

The United States GDP is around 15 trillion. Germany's is 3.3. As a matter of fact, to surpass the US, it takes the ENTIRE eurozone, and depending who's numbers you use, they still don't. That said, the US *IS* a relatively low tax country, but we also don't have "free" healthcare and other such insane benfits (for example, look at the Greece retirement age).

Yeah. Healthcare is an insane benefit. That's why they provide it in Europe; their people are all insane, so they all need healthcare.

 

People getting sick should be screwed. That's how God intended it.

[kapkomet]

This is in comparison to GDP, so it would be easily skewed.

 

The United States GDP is around 15 trillion. Germany's is 3.3. As a matter of fact, to surpass the US, it takes the ENTIRE eurozone, and depending who's numbers you use, they still don't. That said, the US *IS* a relatively low tax country, but we also don't have "free" healthcare and other such insane benfits (for example, look at the Greece retirement age).

 

 

Government receipts vs GDP is not taxation rates. That's a very bad comparision.

[Y2HH]

Yeah. Healthcare is an insane benefit. That's why they provide it in Europe; their people are all insane, so they all need healthcare.

 

People getting sick should be screwed. That's how God intended it.

 

Not remotely what I said, but thanks for completely misunderstanding and for your weak ass attempt to misrepresent what I said.

 

To translate to easier to understand terms, we have a much lower tax rate -- in part -- BECAUSE we don't have things like free healthcare or government benefits for retiring at age 52.

 

Also, to note, you purposefully took the way I used insane and tried to apply a "clinical" definition to it...

 

When I meant something more along the lines of, OMG PAUL KONERKO IS f***ING INSANE. And you know it. So do me a favor and stop playing the willfully ignorant game.

Edited July 25, 2011 by Y2HH

[Balta1701]

Oh come on man, I liked twistig the word insane there. That was at least a decent wordplay.

[jasonxctf]

I want my taxes raised. Dead serious.

[southsider2k5]

I want my taxes raised. Dead serious.

 

https://www.pay.gov/paygov/forms/formInstan...FormId=23779454

[Y2HH]

I want my taxes raised. Dead serious.

 

If you want them raised, why?

 

Personally, I'd have NO problem with raised taxes if I see VISIBLE added/increased benefit to doing so.

 

But as I've stated in the past, taxes are raised, just not at the federal level. They lowered income taxes all the while everyone else raised local/state and any other sort of tax you can stuff into a cell phone or cable bill, not to mention a bottled water tax, soda tax, etc. Our taxes never went down, they just shifted around a bit.

 

As for increasing tax just to be a patriot and help the government pay down debt (which they won't do), you can always just pay more on your own...you don't need them to force you to do that.

[Y2HH]

Oh come on man, I liked twistig the word insane there. That was at least a decent wordplay.

 

It was, but it was annoying.