NorthSideSox72 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Was kind of surprised to see this... Crain's did some in-depth analysis of numerous factors and interviewed a lot of people, and found that despite the recent increases in taxes, Illinois still has a better business climate than any of its neighbors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 An adequate response to all of the terrible "53%" pics I've seen: Link This post has been edited by the Soxtalk staff to remove objectionable material. Soxtalk encourages a free discussion between its members, but does not allow personal attacks, threats, graphic sexual material, nudity, or any other materials judged offensive by the Administrators and Moderators. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 alternatively, an excellent synopsis of every single "53%" pic I've seen: Link This post has been edited by the Soxtalk staff to remove objectionable material. Soxtalk encourages a free discussion between its members, but does not allow personal attacks, threats, graphic sexual material, nudity, or any other materials judged offensive by the Administrators and Moderators. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 17, 2011 -> 10:44 PM) An adequate response to all of the terrible "53%" pics I've seen: These are all terrible for various reasons, as everyone lives under different circumstances -- including this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 SS, both of those images contained language which would have otherwise been caught by the swear filter, and so I have converted them to links. Please make note of that when you post images in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I guess I don't get why the "53%" pictures are "terrible." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 09:06 AM) I guess I don't get why the "53%" pictures are "terrible." I thought the pics I posted explained it pretty well, and then there's the whole "47% of Americans don't pay taxes!" is really a dishonest and bad argument to begin with. None of the "53%" images I have seen actually make a case for supporting the current system, it's just some story about how they have to bust their ass just to get by. The open letter on DailyKos a few days ago did a pretty good job of responding to one of them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 08:00 AM) These are all terrible for various reasons, as everyone lives under different circumstances -- including this one. I think you've missed his point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 08:03 AM) SS, both of those images contained language which would have otherwise been caught by the swear filter, and so I have converted them to links. Please make note of that when you post images in the future. Sorry, those posts may have been made 5 beers in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 08:15 PM) I thought the pics I posted explained it pretty well, and then there's the whole "47% of Americans don't pay taxes!" is really a dishonest and bad argument to begin with. None of the "53%" images I have seen actually make a case for supporting the current system, it's just some story about how they have to bust their ass just to get by. The open letter on DailyKos a few days ago did a pretty good job of responding to one of them as well. Then the whole Occupy movement is beyond dishonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 08:16 PM) I think you've missed his point. No, actually I didn't miss the point at all. They're just bad points on both ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 10:01 PM) Then the whole Occupy movement is beyond dishonest. How's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 11:13 PM) No, actually I didn't miss the point at all. They're just bad points on both ends. How's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 05:58 AM) How's that? Because if you want to go down the line and include all of the things that corporations do pay, it is significant. Instead they are focused on one tax that doesn't tell the whole story, just like the 53% argument. If it is wrong there, it is wrong for Occupy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 09:04 AM) Because if you want to go down the line and include all of the things that corporations do pay, it is significant. Instead they are focused on one tax that doesn't tell the whole story, just like the 53% argument. If it is wrong there, it is wrong for Occupy. But that's a big shift from the message I've gotten. Here's the difference...no honest person looks at the 47% of people who only pay state, local, and payroll taxes and thinks "These people are taking way too much of a slice of the pie" or "These people have taken total control of our political system". "Raising corporate taxes" might help the situation or might not. If it helped the real issue, I think it would get support, but that's not the only thing on the line here.The real issue here is this insular, government-protected Wall Street community where they always win at the casino and everyone else loses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 08:14 AM) But that's a big shift from the message I've gotten. Here's the difference...no honest person looks at the 47% of people who only pay state, local, and payroll taxes and thinks "These people are taking way too much of a slice of the pie" or "These people have taken total control of our political system". "Raising corporate taxes" might help the situation or might not. If it helped the real issue, I think it would get support, but that's not the only thing on the line here.The real issue here is this insular, government-protected Wall Street community where they always win at the casino and everyone else loses. Its a big shift in the message from the left too. They sure don't talk about anything else except corporate taxes when it comes to the fortune 500. If it is dishonest on one side, it is dishonest on the other. At least keep consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 09:35 AM) Its a big shift in the message from the left too. They sure don't talk about anything else except corporate taxes when it comes to the fortune 500. If it is dishonest on one side, it is dishonest on the other. At least keep consistent. Really, we don't talk about anything other than corporate taxes? I hear a ton more complaining about the personal tax rate than the corporate rate. Hell, I'm pretty sure the President himself has repeatedly proposed cutting the nominal corporate tax rate while leveling off the playing field. Repeatedly. As repeatedly as i'm repeating the word repeated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 08:42 AM) Really, we don't talk about anything other than corporate taxes? I hear a ton more complaining about the personal tax rate than the corporate rate. Hell, I'm pretty sure the President himself has repeatedly proposed cutting the nominal corporate tax rate while leveling off the playing field. Repeatedly. As repeatedly as i'm repeating the word repeated. How the heck would you talk about the personal tax rate when referring to big business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 09:47 AM) How the heck would you talk about the personal tax rate when referring to big business? The phrase "I am the 99%" doesn't seem to refer very much to corporate interests, it refers to personal inequality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 06:03 AM) How's that? Because different people from different walks of life will have had a completely different experience to report, be it that they were poor and made it big, or they were multi-millionairs that lost everything, or they struggled and failed and/or struggled and made it big and are now giving back. My point is, just because something worked or didn't work for 1 guy/gal that holds up some smarmy sign designed to go with or against the grain of the movement at hand, doesn't mean it will/won't or hasn't worked for another individual. Also note, *YOU IN SPECIFIC* will only agree with the ones that support your side in this, and that goes for everyone here, myself included. That doesn't mean it's right just because you agree with it. Note, however, it also doesn't mean it's wrong just because it agrees with you. You guys love to say/use the word "anecdotal", well...each and every one of those signs these self-obsessed morons taking pictures of themselves holding for a few minutes for "Internets fame" are all anecdotal. Scratch that. My point is, these signs are dumb. All of them. Edited October 19, 2011 by Y2HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 08:59 AM) The phrase "I am the 99%" doesn't seem to refer very much to corporate interests, it refers to personal inequality. that's funny, because the movement is called occupywallstreet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 10:11 AM) that's funny, because the movement is called occupywallstreet. The average NYC Financial Sector worker salary in 2010 was $361,330. (Pointing out that this is an "Average" and many people make less than that number makes the point stronger, btw.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 09:18 AM) The average NYC Financial Sector worker salary in 2010 was $361,330. (Pointing out that this is an "Average" and many people make less than that number makes the point stronger, btw.) Right. That's their point. Funny, that isn't what the signs at the rally's say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 10:28 AM) Right. That's their point. Funny, that isn't what the signs at the rally's say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 09:31 AM) Seriously, now post the 50 others that contradict that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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