Rex Kickass Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 It really sucks when a guy you respected, voted for, worked for and actively supported turns out to be a piece of s*** ethically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 He'll still avoid charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 24, 2012 -> 01:24 PM) He'll still avoid charges. of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 24, 2012 -> 01:24 PM) He'll still avoid charges. If they have a very high up at JPM testify that Corzine lied to them about the funds, he is done for. It is an easy slam dunk. It is the lying about insider trading type of stuff that people get convicted for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 24, 2012 -> 03:41 PM) If they have a very high up at JPM testify that Corzine lied to them about the funds, he is done for. It is an easy slam dunk. It is the lying about insider trading type of stuff that people get convicted for. Unless JPM happens to have gotten a chunk of the $1.2 billion that was stolen from MF's customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 24, 2012 -> 02:44 PM) Unless JPM happens to have gotten a chunk of the $1.2 billion that was stolen from MF's customers. Irrelevant. If it is true that the CRO of JPM called them and point blank asked the CEO if the funds were from customer segregated funds, and even took the extra step of attempting to have him sign an attestation to that, they are easily in the clear. They did their due diligence and then some. Taking down Corzine for misrepresenting that fact will only help that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 24, 2012 -> 03:46 PM) Irrelevant. If it is true that the CRO of JPM called them and point blank asked the CEO if the funds were from customer segregated funds, and even took the extra step of attempting to have him sign an attestation to that, they are easily in the clear. They did their due diligence and then some. Taking down Corzine for misrepresenting that fact will only help that out. Unless they wind up having to give back some fraction of the stolen funds by cooperating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 24, 2012 -> 02:46 PM) Irrelevant. If it is true that the CRO of JPM called them and point blank asked the CEO if the funds were from customer segregated funds, and even took the extra step of attempting to have him sign an attestation to that, they are easily in the clear. They did their due diligence and then some. Taking down Corzine for misrepresenting that fact will only help that out. Corzine already went over this in his testimony. This latest email isn't anything new. The account the money came out of at least at one time contained both customer and firm funds. JPM tried to verify the funds were segregated, but no one signed their confirmation. I would think Corzine probably knew the funds at least partially were customer funds but maybe figured JPM was going to be crediting the account far more than $200 million when this money was transferred, which didn't happen, as supposedly JPM was really slow crediting MF accounts. I used to work at MF Global. I can say without any doubt in my mind, Edith O'Brien would never send the funds illegally unless she was forced or tricked. I don't think Corzine is innocent, but he'll skate around this pretty easily. I doubt Edith even testifies. They are just wasting money and time with the next dog and pony show. The CFO already said he knows nothing, Edith will use the 5th unless they grant her immunity, and the North American CFO is going to be there and she was on vacation when all this went down. A couple of banks are now offering many MF accounts 90% of their account value for their claim. They have been paid 72% and the trustee announced it will soon bring that up to 80%. I'm pretty sure they are going to "find" a pretty big portion of the "missing" money in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 24, 2012 -> 02:59 PM) Unless they wind up having to give back some fraction of the stolen funds by cooperating. They will have to do that either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 24, 2012 -> 03:13 PM) Corzine already went over this in his testimony. This latest email isn't anything new. The account the money came out of at least at one time contained both customer and firm funds. JPM tried to verify the funds were segregated, but no one signed their confirmation. I would think Corzine probably knew the funds at least partially were customer funds but maybe figured JPM was going to be crediting the account far more than $200 million when this money was transferred, which didn't happen, as supposedly JPM was really slow crediting MF accounts. I used to work at MF Global. I can say without any doubt in my mind, Edith O'Brien would never send the funds illegally unless she was forced or tricked. I don't think Corzine is innocent, but he'll skate around this pretty easily. I doubt Edith even testifies. They are just wasting money and time with the next dog and pony show. The CFO already said he knows nothing, Edith will use the 5th unless they grant her immunity, and the North American CFO is going to be there and she was on vacation when all this went down. A couple of banks are now offering many MF accounts 90% of their account value for their claim. They have been paid 72% and the trustee announced it will soon bring that up to 80%. I'm pretty sure they are going to "find" a pretty big portion of the "missing" money in the near future. I said exactly that from day one. When I saw Corzine's testimony that all he said was "fix it", no one in the industry in their right mind would take that as "take customer segregated funds to cover the position". Fix it means divest the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 24, 2012 -> 04:17 PM) I said exactly that from day one. When I saw Corzine's testimony that all he said was "fix it", no one in the industry in their right mind would take that as "take customer segregated funds to cover the position". Fix it means divest the position. You said Corzine would skate around this pretty easily? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 24, 2012 -> 03:19 PM) You said Corzine would skate around this pretty easily? Obviously I highlighted too far and I really doubt you didn't get that from my response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 24, 2012 -> 04:23 PM) Obviously I highlighted too far and I really doubt you didn't get that from my response. Which is clearly why I was confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Unless they have an email or a taped phone conversation or something else which shows Corzine knew the money was customer money when he ordered it sent, nothing is going to happen to him. The fact that no one would sign the confirmation JPM sent to MF clearly indicates to me someone knew, at least soon after. This internal memo is really nothing new and definitely not a smoking gun. Maybe if they get Edith to talk, she can give them something. I would think MF customers want someone to pay, but would rather it be Corzine than an assistant treasurer who was just doing what she was told. IMO JPM is clearly not innocent either. If they required that confirmation, why did they post the money to that overdrawn account without it? MF has hurt the entire industry. Edited March 24, 2012 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 24, 2012 -> 03:35 PM) Unless they have an email or a taped phone conversation or something else which shows Corzine knew the money was customer money when he ordered it sent, nothing is going to happen to him. The fact that no one would sign the confirmation JPM sent to MF clearly indicates to me someone knew, at least soon after. This internal memo is really nothing new and definitely not a smoking gun. IMO JPM is clearly not innocent either. If they required that confirmation, why did they post the money to that overdrawn account without it? They got Corzine's word on it obviously. And trust me the people who transferred the money will testify that Corzine told them to do it because they aren't going to go down for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 24, 2012 -> 03:38 PM) They got Corzine's word on it obviously. And trust me the people who transferred the money will testify that Corzine told them to do it because they aren't going to go down for it. Which plays right into Corzine's strategy. He said/she said isn't going to get him either. Usually if someone is going to go down in one of those situations, its the best lawyer wins. They both have excellent representation. Corzine the ex Senator, Governor, testified when most said he shouldn't speak. He's not going down unless there's a smoking gun, and that gun hasn't come out yet. Since Edith did send the money and it was customer seg funds, she's starting the race a little bit behind. She shouldn't testify if not granted immunity and I doubt she will. In the end, as much as it pains me, I don't think anyone is going down for this. Edited March 24, 2012 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 24, 2012 -> 03:44 PM) Which plays right into Corzine's strategy. He said/she said isn't going to get him either. Usually if someone is going to go down in one of those situations, its the best lawyer wins. They both have excellent representation. Corzine the ex Senator, Governor, testified when most said he shouldn't speak. He's not going down unless there's a smoking gun, and that gun hasn't come out yet. Since Edith did send the money and it was customer seg funds, she's starting the race a little bit behind. She shouldn't testify if not granted immunity and I doubt she will. In the end, as much as it pains me, I don't think anyone is going down for this. If it comes down to letting Corzine walk and letting a nobody go to jail or letting a nobody walk and having a chance at taking down Corzine, they will take the latter. I have no doubt someone testifies with immunity or a really reduced sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2012 -> 11:45 AM) For a great laugh, go watch Bob Pisani on the BATS IPO disaster day. I thought you'd appreciate this graphic from zero hedge: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 25, 2012 -> 07:52 PM) I thought you'd appreciate this graphic from zero hedge: The funny part is that it was NASDAQ that f***ed them. They are the one who opened the stock prematurely (all IPOs are to print first on the primary listing exchange, which in this case was BATS of course). My boss swears they did it on purpose, but that is another topic entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 24, 2012 -> 04:35 PM) Unless they have an email or a taped phone conversation or something else which shows Corzine knew the money was customer money when he ordered it sent, nothing is going to happen to him. The fact that no one would sign the confirmation JPM sent to MF clearly indicates to me someone knew, at least soon after. This internal memo is really nothing new and definitely not a smoking gun. Maybe if they get Edith to talk, she can give them something. I would think MF customers want someone to pay, but would rather it be Corzine than an assistant treasurer who was just doing what she was told. IMO JPM is clearly not innocent either. If they required that confirmation, why did they post the money to that overdrawn account without it? MF has hurt the entire industry. Actually, there was an email uncovered over the weekend that indicates that Corzine was told it was a nonseg account where the funds came from. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/e-mail-corzi...-125007482.html Jon S. Corzine, the former chief executive of MF Global, was told during the brokerage firm's final day of business that a crucial transfer of $175 million came from the firm's own money - not from a customer account, according to an internal e-mail. The e-mail, sent by an executive in MF Global's Chicago office, showed that the company had transferred $175 million to replenish an overdrawn account at JPMorgan Chase in London. The transfer, the e-mail said, was a "House Wire," meaning that it came from the firm's own money. The e-mail, sent at 2:20 p.m. on Oct. 28 to Mr. Corzine and two of his assistants in New York, says the transfer came from a "nonseg" account, industry speak for a noncustomer account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 09:07 AM) Actually, there was an email uncovered over the weekend that indicates that Corzine was told it was a nonseg account where the funds came from. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/e-mail-corzi...-125007482.html And this ballgame is ova. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 10:12 AM) And this ballgame is ova. Wait, doesn't that help Corzine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 09:15 AM) Wait, doesn't that help Corzine? It means they have a target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 10:17 AM) It means they have a target. And that it doesn't appear to be Corzine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 10:53 AM) And that it doesn't appear to be Corzine. At least not now. But still this is a big step forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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