Financial News

[StrangeSox]

There is a glut of lawyers, though.

[bmags]

There is a glut of lawyers, though.

 

and yet I'd bet a large amount of them are making more than the 38k median wage.

[StrangeSox]

and yet I'd bet a large amount of them are making more than the 38k median wage.

 

Maybe.

 

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2012/0...real-legal-jobs

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

and yet I'd bet a large amount of them are making more than the 38k median wage.

 

They told us out of law school (2008) that the median salary in chicago for a new lawyer was 43k. Which yes, is higher than the national average, but the 100k in school debt is about 800 bucks a month out of your pay.

 

Edit: also, if you work in a small firm (which most do) you're not going to get any benefits - health insurance, 401k, etc.

 

Edit 2: and because of the number of new attorneys being churned out year after year, the salary demands are dropping like crazy. There are people fighting for $30k a year jobs. And lawyers by nature are absolute cheap-asses, so if you can hire a new lawyer for pennies (and you can in this job market) you're going to do it.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Jenksismybitch

[bmags]

Yeah, still not impressed. Their earnings will be over 38k for the majority of their lifetime. I'm not arguing for law school, not doing law school was the only good school decision i've made. But, in the grand scheme of things these people will be better off than someone who didn't go to college. Again, I doubt the amount of legal jobs has gone down, there are just a lot more lawyers so they can't demand the salary they used to.

[Balta1701]

They told us out of law school (2008) that the median salary in chicago for a new lawyer was 43k. Which yes, is higher than the national average, but the 100k in school debt is about 800 bucks a month out of your pay.

 

Edit: also, if you work in a small firm (which most do) you're not going to get any benefits - health insurance, 401k, etc.

 

Edit 2: and because of the number of new attorneys being churned out year after year, the salary demands are dropping like crazy. There are people fighting for $30k a year jobs. And lawyers by nature are absolute cheap-asses, so if you can hire a new lawyer for pennies (and you can in this job market) you're going to do it.

Median though doesn't mean "Mean". If 40% of law school graduates were unemployed, the average salary could be $20 k and the median salary could be $43.

[Balta1701]

Good thing it's non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, too!

 

for-profit colleges account for something like 20% of (federally-guaranteed) student loans but 80% of the default rates. There's on-going controversy over law schools and them being dishonest about debt loads and employment rates, too.

The other, unnoted big part of that surge is that state funding for higher education has been plummeting. This is only 1 state but it shows through 2011; there's a similar national trend.

[bmags]

The other, unnoted big part of that surge is that state funding for higher education has been plummeting. This is only 1 state but it shows through 2011; there's a similar national trend.

 

One thing I want to know, however, is is the funding actually dropping, or is tuition just rising so much that more and more needs to come out of pocket.

[StrangeSox]

Yeah, still not impressed. Their earnings will be over 38k for the majority of their lifetime. I'm not arguing for law school, not doing law school was the only good school decision i've made. But, in the grand scheme of things these people will be better off than someone who didn't go to college. Again, I doubt the amount of legal jobs has gone down, there are just a lot more lawyers so they can't demand the salary they used to.

 

Better than someone who went to no college, probably. Better than someone who stuck with their BA/BS or mastered in something else? Maybe not, not with their massive debt loads.

[StrangeSox]

One thing I want to know, however, is is the funding actually dropping, or is tuition just rising so much that more and more needs to come out of pocket.

 

Yes.

[Balta1701]

One thing I want to know, however, is is the funding actually dropping, or is tuition just rising so much that more and more needs to come out of pocket.

Actually dropping. 25% lower than it was per head a decade ago as of 2010, with continuing budget cuts since.

 

Again, state level link, but there's a national curve on it.

[Y2HH]

I went to UIC for about a year and a half and finished at DeVry.

 

My tuition was pretty cheap, overall, from what I remember. Less than 12k for an entire year while at Devry, and that was doing trimesters...it was even less at UIC.

[StrangeSox]

Tuition rates have been climbing exponentially over the last 10+ years. UIUC is up 50% from when I left there in 2007.

[farmteam]

Tuition rates have been climbing exponentially over the last 10+ years. UIUC is up 50% from when I left there in 2007.

 

Just from what I've seen in general of flagship state schools, Illinois has absurdly high in-state tuition. My (relatively small) scholarship at Indiana made it the same price UIUC would have been.

[StrangeSox]

Just from what I've seen in general of flagship state schools, Illinois has absurdly high in-state tuition. My (relatively small) scholarship at Indiana made it the same price UIUC would have been.

 

Quickly looking at Mich, MSU and Wisconsin, it's $1-2k more per academic year for undergrad tuition.

[bmags]

Just from what I've seen in general of flagship state schools, Illinois has absurdly high in-state tuition. My (relatively small) scholarship at Indiana made it the same price UIUC would have been.

 

They like to raise tuition because it makes them feel elite. They aren't concerned with the state as much as prestige.

[bigruss]

They like to raise tuition because it makes them feel elite. They aren't concerned with the state as much as prestige.

This is bulls***.

 

The state owes the school hundreds of millions of dollars, the school needs some form of income. They also lock in your tuition, so they don't scam incoming students who think their tuition is going to be $18k/yr (with room and board) only to find they are paying $24k+ their senior year.

[farmteam]

This is bulls***.

 

The state owes the school hundreds of millions of dollars, the school needs some form of income. They also lock in your tuition, so they don't scam incoming students who think their tuition is going to be $18k/yr (with room and board) only to find they are paying $24k+ their senior year.

 

18k/yr? This year it's about 30k/yr.

[Y2HH]

18k/yr? This year it's about 30k/yr.

 

You need to re-read what he wrote.

[farmteam]

You need to re-read what he wrote.

 

Even JUST room/board + tuition is still 22-27.

[bigruss]

Even JUST room/board + tuition is still 22-27.

Okay, let's just say $25k/yr with room and board, which is just about the base rate for Illinois.

 

Meanwhile, Michigan is $23 for their LOWER payments, anyone with over 54 credits gets to pay the nice price of $24.5k, AND that goes up EVERY year. Source

 

My brother went to Umich, and it was advertised as $18k including room and board (back in 2008). Well, with AP credits he was actually paying the rate of a sophomore, and every year they went up about 10%. That right there is some shady s***.

 

You may pay a bit more during the freshman year, but I would say overall Michigan was more expensive for my brother compared to myself at U of I (if looking at comparable years).

Edited August 11, 2012 by bigruss22

[bigruss]

Oh, and U of I Housing is following the lock in pricing, which is pretty rare from what I've seen.

[farmteam]

Okay, let's just say $25k/yr with room and board, which is just about the base rate for Illinois.

 

Meanwhile, Michigan is $23 for their LOWER payments, anyone with over 54 credits gets to pay the nice price of $24.5k, AND that goes up EVERY year. Source

 

My brother went to Umich, and it was advertised as $18k including room and board (back in 2008). Well, with AP credits he was actually paying the rate of a sophomore, and every year they went up about 10%. That right there is some shady s***.

 

You may pay a bit more during the freshman year, but I would say overall Michigan was more expensive for my brother compared to myself at U of I (if looking at comparable years).

 

Michigan is also the only school in the Big Ten (maybe Wisconsin too -- not sure on that one) with the reputation of having as high of tuition as Illinois. I also don't understand what's "shady" about tuition increases, unless you're referring to the size of the increase and not the fact the increase is there at all. It's normal to expect costs to go up, but yeah 10% is pretty steep. Though, something similar might have happened at Indiana the year after I left.

 

 

[bigruss]

Michigan is also the only school in the Big Ten (maybe Wisconsin too -- not sure on that one) with the reputation of having as high of tuition as Illinois. I also don't understand what's "shady" about tuition increases, unless you're referring to the size of the increase and not the fact the increase is there at all. It's normal to expect costs to go up, but yeah 10% is pretty steep. Though, something similar might have happened at Indiana the year after I left.

It's the fact that they have tuition increases annually on top of increases for numbers of credits you have.

 

 

[farmteam]

It's the fact that they have tuition increases annually on top of increases for numbers of credits you have.

Oh, it wasn't clear to me that # of credits increased tuition. I'm a fan of the "11/12-to-18 credits is the same tuition" model.