Jenksismyhero Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 That's the kind of s*** that needs to be fixed instead of raising taxes on the middle/lower class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 21, 2013 -> 10:12 AM) That's the kind of s*** that needs to be fixed instead of raising taxes on the middle/lower class. Communist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 20, 2013 -> 09:14 PM) Apple’s Web of Tax Shelters Saved It Billions, Panel Finds So what? Apple is a major bribe payer to Congress. It's all good. Edited May 21, 2013 by mr_genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 21, 2013 -> 09:12 AM) That's the kind of s*** that needs to be fixed instead of raising taxes on the middle/lower class. Wrong. Apple is entitled to pay no taxes. It's a basic of Obamanomics; the wealthy and politically connected pay no tax. We will simply raise taxes on people like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I tend to side with the folks who figure out the way to beat the system in these instances...this is on those who make the rules of the game, not the one who finds the flaws in those rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 21, 2013 -> 10:28 AM) I tend to side with the folks who figure out the way to beat the system in these instances...this is on those who make the rules of the game, not the one who finds the flaws in those rules. Oh totally. I don't blame Apple at all for being smart. I don't think they have "personal responsibility" to pay money to the government because they have it. But I do have a problem with "i'm with main street, not wall street" politicians that clearly don't give a s*** about main street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 21, 2013 -> 10:44 AM) Oh totally. I don't blame Apple at all for being smart. I don't think they have "personal responsibility" to pay money to the government because they have it. But I do have a problem with "i'm with main street, not wall street" politicians that clearly don't give a s*** about main street. Agreed; also, for those who have a problem with this (myself included), the anger should be directed at those making the rules, not at Apple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 QUOTE (farmteam @ May 21, 2013 -> 11:49 AM) Agreed; also, for those who have a problem with this (myself included), the anger should be directed at those making the rules, not at Apple. Does a company like Apple also employ lobbyists who assist in making rules with loopholes they can drive a truck through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Does a company like Apple also employ lobbyists who assist in making rules with loopholes they can drive a truck through? I'm pretty sure they don't drive the truck through themselves--they outsource that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2013 -> 10:50 AM) Does a company like Apple also employ lobbyists who assist in making rules with loopholes they can drive a truck through? Of course they employ lobbyists to protect their interest...this is how capitalism works...you are well aware of this...the legislators are still the ones responsible for ultimately signing legislation which protects the interests of the nation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 21, 2013 -> 01:53 PM) Of course they employ lobbyists to protect their interest...this is how capitalism works...you are well aware of this...the legislators are still the ones responsible for ultimately signing legislation which protects the interests of the nation... Do you really believe that legislators are crafting legislation which protects the best interests of the nation or are they crafting legislation which protects their personal best interests, reflecting in part the actual voters they have to face and in part the people who pay for their campaigns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2013 -> 01:09 PM) Do you really believe that legislators are crafting legislation which protects the best interests of the nation or are they crafting legislation which protects their personal best interests, reflecting in part the actual voters they have to face and in part the people who pay for their campaigns? Hey, when we all recognize how f***ed the system is we'll be better off and maybe we can fix our democracy. But your people continue to buy into the idea that government will save them and provide for them. You know, the same government that routinely f***s them. At least if a corporation is shady and corrupt I still have the choice to do business with them at the end of the day. I have no choice with government's involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 21, 2013 -> 01:38 PM) Hey, when we all recognize how f***ed the system is we'll be better off and maybe we can fix our democracy. But your people continue to buy into the idea that government will save them and provide for them. You know, the same government that routinely f***s them. At least if a corporation is shady and corrupt I still have the choice to do business with them at the end of the day. I have no choice with government's involvement. Why do you think you'll be less f***ed if there's even less control on corporations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 21, 2013 -> 01:57 PM) Why do you think you'll be less f***ed if there's even less control on corporations? Because I can choose to be involved with those corporations? Obviously i'm not talking about getting rid of regulations or oversight or things like that totally, but as a general rule, i'd rather be able to pick and choose the private entities I do business with, even if they are corrupt, instead of being FORCED to deal with corrupt governments (hello Illinois citizens and Chicago residents!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cknolls Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 10% corporate tax. No deductions, no expensing. No lobbying for loopholes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2013 -> 11:09 AM) Do you really believe that legislators are crafting legislation which protects the best interests of the nation or are they crafting legislation which protects their personal best interests, reflecting in part the actual voters they have to face and in part the people who pay for their campaigns? And this is Apple's fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 21, 2013 -> 03:04 PM) And this is Apple's fault? They could always tell their lobbyists to start supporting a sensible campaign finance system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2013 -> 12:43 PM) They could always tell their lobbyists to start supporting a sensible campaign finance system. Oh brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 21, 2013 -> 03:47 PM) Oh brother What we ought to actually recognize is that a rigged system like this has a good chance of preventing the rise of the next Apple. Rigging the system in favor of companies that already exist disadvantages companies that aren't big enough to afford their own loophole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2013 -> 12:58 PM) What we ought to actually recognize is that a rigged system like this has a good chance of preventing the rise of the next Apple. Rigging the system in favor of companies that already exist disadvantages companies that aren't big enough to afford their own loophole. I disagree...I don't think Apple is the only company smart enough to find these loopholes...in fact, the article specifically states that. It is just more glaring in the case of Apple because they make so much damn money to shelter in the first place. What we ought to recognize is that our tax code is so ridiculously complex that it becomes impossible to maintain and manage. This is not exclusive to our tax code, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 What is the problem is giving the government too much power to decide all of these things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 21, 2013 -> 04:06 PM) I disagree...I don't think Apple is the only company smart enough to find these loopholes...in fact, the article specifically states that. It is just more glaring in the case of Apple because they make so much damn money to shelter in the first place. What we ought to recognize is that our tax code is so ridiculously complex that it becomes impossible to maintain and manage. This is not exclusive to our tax code, btw. Apple is not too smart to find them now...but what about a company of 10 people started in a garage in california a few years ago that could come up with the next big thing? They have to go against a behemoth that can artificially keep its price down by creating fake overseas shell corporations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2013 -> 01:09 PM) Apple is not too smart to find them now...but what about a company of 10 people started in a garage in california a few years ago that could come up with the next big thing? They have to go against a behemoth that can artificially keep its price down by creating fake overseas shell corporations. That company is most likely not going to find themselves on the map because of Apple's lawyers. They're going to do so because of some innovation or market niche that Apple missed. Ironic that you mention this scenario, as this is exactly where Apple was about 30 years ago. Edited May 21, 2013 by iamshack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 21, 2013 -> 03:07 PM) What is the problem is giving the government too much power to decide all of these things? Agreed. Abolish the government-created limited liability corporation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 22, 2013 -> 06:37 AM) Agreed. Abolish the government-created limited liability corporation. And officially kill off any business in this litigation-heavy society? No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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