Official 2009-2010 NCAA Basketball Thread

[Jenksismyhero]

Pippen was arguably HOF and top 50 of all time. I just think its premature to suggest that Turner is a better leader or star than Pippen, considering Turner hasnt played a single NBA game.

 

If Turner turns out to be as good as Pippen hed have an amazing career. Just seems odd to already be suggesting hes better.

 

Especially since there are SO many college stars that dominate at the college level, but can't do crap in the NBA: Adam Morrison, Marvin Williams, Andrew Bogut, etc...

Edited February 8, 2010 by Jenksismybitch

[Palehosefan]

Especially since there are SO many college stars that dominate at the college level, but can't do crap in the NBA: Adam Richardson, Marvin Williams, Andrew Bogut, etc...

 

I think you meant Adam Morrison, but I don't understand the Marvin Williams inclusion.

 

He averaged 11.3 points, 6.7 rpg in his only collegiate season. He averages 12.1 ppg and 5.4 rpg in the NBA where he has to find shots from Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford, and Josh Smith.

 

[LittleHurt05]

Especially since there are SO many college stars that dominate at the college level, but can't do crap in the NBA: Adam Richardson, Marvin Williams, Andrew Bogut, etc...

 

I know what you are trying to say, but Bogut's averaging a double-double for the Bucks, wouldnt call that not doing crap

[Palehosefan]

To me, Turner could end up being a slightly upgraded version of Brandon Roy, which would be a hell of a player.

[Jenksismyhero]

I think you meant Adam Morrison, but I don't understand the Marvin Williams inclusion.

 

He averaged 11.3 points, 6.7 rpg in his only collegiate season. He averages 12.1 ppg and 5.4 rpg in the NBA where he has to find shots from Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford, and Josh Smith.

 

Oops, lol, I read that thing straight from NBA.com's draft history page too. He hadn't dominated college, but he was being talked about like he was the next LeBron. I'm just saying there's a difference between dominating college (or having the hype of dominating as a freshman prospect) and dominating in the NBA. Check out all the really solid players in the last 10 draft years that went in the lottery. There's only a handful of all time greats in there.

[Felix]

Unf***in real where he ranks in the Big 10 in PTS/REB/AST. Dude is incredible. Any NBA team that lands him will be incredibly lucky.

Timberwolves please.

[danman31]

Disagree here. I'm not convinced Lucas makes that game any different. Maybe less turnovers, but the game wasn't won/lost because of a lack of offensive efficiency. Both teams executed the entire game. It just came down to Illinois hitting big shots at the end.

 

I DO think this team is a borderline top 25 team. They're easily 3-4 games better than the record indicates, even if you throw out the Clemson win. They've been soundly beaten twice this season (Missouri, 2nd half of MSU), the rest of their losses are from poor 2nd half play. That's what happens when you rely heavily on 3 freshman and 3 juniors. This is the 2nd youngest team in the conference (behind Indiana) and they're still tied for 2nd, within a game of first.

I don't see how Michigan State having their best player would have no impact on the game. Regardless, I think Illinois is a team 3-4 games worse than their record. They are 8-3 in the Big Ten. They are 2-3 in the Big Ten against teams not named Iowa, Indiana or Penn State. Northwestern, a team no one is going to claim is near the top 25, is 4-6 against Big Ten teams not named Iowa, Indiana or Penn State. Same winning percentage. Illinois is a young team with potential for the future, but this year's team is very pedestrian and you're only setting yourself up for disappointment if you expectations are higher than a tourney birth.

[fathom]

I don't see how Michigan State having their best player would have no impact on the game. Regardless, I think Illinois is a team 3-4 games worse than their record. They are 8-3 in the Big Ten. They are 2-3 in the Big Ten against teams not named Iowa, Indiana or Penn State. Northwestern, a team no one is going to claim is near the top 25, is 4-6 against Big Ten teams not named Iowa, Indiana or Penn State. Same winning percentage. Illinois is a young team with potential for the future, but this year's team is very pedestrian and you're only setting yourself up for disappointment if you expectations are higher than a tourney birth.

 

No kidding, Lucious played a TERRIBLE game. Lucas is about the most overrated player in the country, but he's still almost a sure thing to play better than his back-up did. Who cares about the Illini's record right now though, in all honesty? They have such a hard schedule left that if they get to 11 wins, then they deserve to make the NCAA Tournament. The list of bubble teams is pathetic anyways right now.

[danman31]

Who cares about the Illini's record right now though, in all honesty? They have such a hard schedule left that if they get to 11 wins, then they deserve to make the NCAA Tournament. The list of bubble teams is pathetic anyways right now.

I do believe they deserve a birth with only a little bit of work left to do, but they shouldn't and probably won't be higher than a 10 seed.

[whitesoxfan99]

No kidding, Lucious played a TERRIBLE game. Lucas is about the most overrated player in the country, but he's still almost a sure thing to play better than his back-up did. Who cares about the Illini's record right now though, in all honesty? They have such a hard schedule left that if they get to 11 wins, then they deserve to make the NCAA Tournament. The list of bubble teams is pathetic anyways right now.

 

Lucas definitely impacts the game but does it change the outcome? No one can possibly answer that. Maybe if Lucas plays Green and Allen who both shot the lights out get less shots. Maybe Lucas goes 3-10 from the floor and MSU still turns the ball over a lot even when Lucas plays. I don't think 11 Big 10 wins make Illinois a lock btw. If they beat Minny, Michigan, and say Wisconsin at home it would be borderline depending on the Big 10 tourney. Although we would be a hell of a lot more deserving than most of the A-10 teams people are pushing to make the tourney right now.

Edited February 8, 2010 by whitesoxfan99

[RockRaines]

Pippen was arguably HOF and top 50 of all time. I just think its premature to suggest that Turner is a better leader or star than Pippen, considering Turner hasnt played a single NBA game.

 

If Turner turns out to be as good as Pippen hed have an amazing career. Just seems odd to already be suggesting hes better.

 

Clearly you didnt understand my point. They are different players, I never said he was better than Pippen, you took it to that level. Turner is the heart and soul of a team, its personality. Pippen was more of a recluse. On the court they have similar skills, but IMO they are different players. THATS the point, I wasnt saying anything about who is better since Turner is still in college and that would be foolish.

[RockRaines]

Oops, lol, I read that thing straight from NBA.com's draft history page too. He hadn't dominated college, but he was being talked about like he was the next LeBron. I'm just saying there's a difference between dominating college (or having the hype of dominating as a freshman prospect) and dominating in the NBA. Check out all the really solid players in the last 10 draft years that went in the lottery. There's only a handful of all time greats in there.

 

I'm not saying he's an all time great, but Turner is doing things at the college level that only some all time greats have done. Doesnt mean he will be, but he's a much better player than those guys mentioned above.

 

Right now, Turner is averaging 18.6 points, 9.8 rebounds and 5.4 assists per game. However, if you exclude the seven-minute outing against Eastern Michigan (when he was injured) and his 20-minute return against Indiana, those averages jump to 20.7, 11.0 and 5.8. If Turner can maintain those standards (technically, he'd need about a 0.5 ppg bump in scoring), he will complete one of the most statistically improbable seasons in modern basketball history.

 

How rare is a 20/10/5 year in college hoops? According to Ohio State's sports information department, which consulted with Stats Inc., no Division I player has completed one since at least 1996. Stats Inc.'s best guess as to the last player to do it is Larry Bird at Indiana State in 1978-79, and that wasn't even in a major conference. Searching independently, the last player who did it in a top-tier league may have been Bill Walton at UCLA in 1972-73.

 

Think about what that means. Grant Hill (17.4/6.9/5.2) never got there. Neither did Dwayne Wade (21.5/6.3/4.4). Tim Duncan came moderately close (20.8/14.7/3.2), but still didn't do it. Even less-remembered one-man wrecking crews like N.C. State's Tom Gugliotta (22.5/9.8/3.1) couldn't get there.

 

The best proxies? The two most freakishly multitalented stars of the modern era: Magic Johnson (17.0/7.9/7.4 and 17.1/7.3/8.4 in his two seasons) and Jason Kidd (16.7/6.9/9.1 his sophomore season). Both had outrageously impactful seasons, but each still missed on two of these three specific metrics.

 

More recently, there have been only 19 20/10 guys in Division I in the last five seasons combined, and none averaged more than 2.7 assists per game. Yes, it takes a perfect confluence of events -- a multidimensional star playing with a solid supporting cast that lacks a true second go-to guy -- but the sheer rarity of the feat hints at both Turner's uniqueness and his quality.

Edited February 9, 2010 by RockRaines

[danman31]

This Texas/Kansas game is both a sign of how good Kansas is and how bad Texas is lately. I'll be surprised if the Horns finish the year in the top 25.

[whitesoxfan99]

Balbay from Texas is lol bad on offense.

[Soxbadger]

Clearly you didnt understand my point. They are different players, I never said he was better than Pippen, you took it to that level. Turner is the heart and soul of a team, its personality. Pippen was more of a recluse. On the court they have similar skills, but IMO they are different players. THATS the point, I wasnt saying anything about who is better since Turner is still in college and that would be foolish.

 

You should have been more clear then.

 

Stating one player is "second fiddle" and the other is the "star" and "leader", would suggest that one player is better than the other.

 

What is strange is that you follow up the last comment with: "Turner is still in college" but then compare how Scottie Pippen acted as a pro to Evan Turner in college. Scottie was the star in college, and there is nothing that i have seen suggest he wasnt a leader in college.

 

It just seems you are trying to suggest that Turner has something that Pippen doesnt, and I just dont believe that anyone on this board knows much about Pippen in college, so its really hard to talk about Pippen's college intangibles.

 

As I said, we will see what happens when Turner gets into the pros.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Rock Chalk!

[LittleHurt05]

UNC about to fall to 13-10 on the season with a 20+ point loss at UMD. Roy should get a trophy for worst coaching performance of the year. 7 Mickey D's AA's and are a long shot to even make the NIT.

 

The worst part is that Roy will come back to any fan questioning this years team with his usual "I have more basketball knowledge in my pinky than you do in your entire body" routine.

 

Its funny how a coach can win two national championships in 5 years, but he has a bad year defending the second one, and fans already call for this head and talk about how horrible of a coach he is

[Jenksismyhero]

I'm not saying he's an all time great, but Turner is doing things at the college level that only some all time greats have done. Doesnt mean he will be, but he's a much better player than those guys mentioned above.

 

I think Turner is an impressive player, and I think he's a lock to be a really good NBA guy (with unlimited potential), but a 20/10/5 season isn't as good as Duncan's (nearly 5 more boards a game) or Magic's (nearly 3-4 more assists) IMO. There's an argument in there also about the way the game is played (much more offensively nowadays), but whatever. Turner is a stud, no argument there.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Jenksismybitch

[bmags]

Kim English is having a hell of a season as a sophomore. 9 20+ pt. games already.

[The Beast]

Let's go Badgers!

[LittleHurt05]

Let's go Badgers!

 

I hope the Illini can keep up the momentum from Saturdays win, but I forsee a big letdown tonight, especially at the Kohl Center. Should be an easy win for the Badgers, would definitely take them vs. the spread (-9)

Edited February 9, 2010 by LittleHurt05

[Palehosefan]

Its funny how a coach can win two national championships in 5 years, but he has a bad year defending the second one, and fans already call for this head and talk about how horrible of a coach he is

 

Yep, anyone calling for his head is an absolute moron. I still wouldn't trade him for any other coach in the nation. It's just shocking how mediocre he looks as a coach with mediocre talent. Thankfully he's the best recruiter in the game and knows how to use the athletes.

[RockRaines]

Come on Illinois! Knock the badgers back a notch in the standings

 

[Soxbadger]

Dear Illinois, do not listen to the above post.

[RockRaines]

Dear Illinois, do not listen to the above post.

 

Interesting fact, out of the 5 home losses that Bo Ryan has, 2 came against Illinois.