Palehosefan Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Both Gary Ward and Von Joshua were fired because the team was struggling, and their teams put up better offensive numbers than Walker. They just weren't part of the good ol boy coaching club of the current Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 (edited) Walker either does not have a plan or the players do not listen to him. Either way, he's ineffective and not doing his job. Edited August 29, 2009 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigEdWalsh Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 (edited) If I indicated that Walker be fired SIMPLY to send a message than it was very misconstrued. I don't think he has done that a good a job to warrant him being here for however long it has been. I'm saying that his firing WOULD send a message. That is all. Edited August 29, 2009 by BigEdWalsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) Walker either does not have a plan or the players do not listen to him. Either way, he's ineffective and not doing his job. Or maybe the blame should be put on the veterans who already know how to hit and still aren't producing. This lineup peaked in 2006, and age has unquestionably diminished the skills of JD, PK, and JT since then. When the heart of your lineup is in decline and you're running guys like Nix and Pods out there daily, it's not terribly surprising that they're not scoring on a consistent basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baines3 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Walker has done a poor job as a hitting coach but part of the blame has to go to the hitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I used to be on the fence about this, but FIRE GREG WALKER!!! Please, just do it so all the arguing over this can stop. It's not like the Sox would have trouble justifying his dismissal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I'd just like to see these guys make a concerted effort to take the ball the other way for god sakes. You can tell the scouting report on the Sox...outside. Everybody and their mom can see the pull-happy crew that is the Sox. Goddamn...it shouldn't be rocket science. That's the thing I blame Walker for the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 QUOTE (Baines3 @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 03:16 PM) Walker has done a poor job as a hitting coach but part of the blame has to go to the hitters. All the blame has to go to the hitters IMO because they are the ones up there. But if Walker's performance is to be measured by the consistency of his offense (or lack thereof) then I don't see how he can get high marks from anyone over the last 4 years. If Walker's performance is ONLY to be measured by his knowledge, attitude, work ethic, and ability to communicate with his players, and if all those things check out with the Sox FO, then fine, but they're going to have an even harder time selling that to fans after this season. And if Walker isn't at fault and it's only the players, then it's Kenny's job to find the right mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 QUOTE (Wanne @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 01:24 PM) I'd just like to see these guys make a concerted effort to take the ball the other way for god sakes. You can tell the scouting report on the Sox...outside. Everybody and their mom can see the pull-happy crew that is the Sox. Goddamn...it shouldn't be rocket science. That's the thing I blame Walker for the most. How is Walker responsible for this lineup trying to pull everything? Is he taking their at-bats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 02:29 PM) How is Walker responsible for this lineup trying to pull everything? Is he taking their at-bats? Really? It's a philosophy. Hell...I remember DJ talking about his time with Minnesota and how it was instilled into them at the lower levels as well. Our philosophy at the plate SUCKS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 QUOTE (Wanne @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 01:56 PM) Really? It's a philosophy. Hell...I remember DJ talking about his time with Minnesota and how it was instilled into them at the lower levels as well. Our philosophy at the plate SUCKS! Are you claiming that Walker is telling them to pull everything? I seriously doubt that. It seems more likely that guys like JD and Alexei are going up there and just doing whatever the hell they want to do. That's a player problem, not a hitting coach problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friend of Nordhagen Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 02:13 PM) I'd rather fire Guillen than Walker. That won't happen, but I'll agree with Fathom he's been pretty horrible since the Buehrle no-hitter (of course, so have Buehrle/Dye/Konerko/Rios/Beckham/Pena/Linebrink/Dotel).... I think Ozzie has one more chance in 2010...but he will be on thin ice if he struggles early in 2011 and the team suffers with chemistry issues throughout 2010 too. We let Swisher, Vazquez and Cabrera go to improve our clubhouse, and it clearly hasn't had the ameliorative affect that KW predicted it would have on the team. Because one of the problems in the clubhouse is still the sleepy guys, like Dye. I'm not all for "fire" -- but I am for having the appearance of giving a s***, because I think that can influence other people. I'm sorry, but Jermaine has looked truly lethargic for 2 years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 The Sox are an all or nothing offense... and right now the dial is stuck on nothing. That is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Today's performance should give this thread a boost. One hit against Sergio Mitre and Chad Gaudin at the best launching pad in baseball is not very good. Although, at the same time, I think this team has just quit in general, which goes far beyond the hitting coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 03:59 PM) Are you claiming that Walker is telling them to pull everything? I seriously doubt that. It seems more likely that guys like JD and Alexei are going up there and just doing whatever the hell they want to do. That's a player problem, not a hitting coach problem. I understand what you're sayin....but that's my problem with this. If scouting reports on the Sox say down and away with everything...don't you think it's the hitting coach's job to "coach"? I understand they're professionals, veterans and all...but if there's no input from a coaching staff in regards to hitting...what's the actual point of having a hitting coach? And if he is emphasizing taking the outside pitches (that they're probably going to get a steady stream of), the other way and they're not even trying or listening...therein lies the problem. Is it all Walkers fault. No. But goddamn...what's the point of having a hitting instructor if nobody is listening to him? But again...none of us are around them so we don't know what conversations are taking place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 QUOTE (Wanne @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 02:29 PM) I understand what you're sayin....but that's my problem with this. If scouting reports on the Sox say down and away with everything...don't you think it's the hitting coach's job to "coach"? I understand they're professionals, veterans and all...but if there's no input from a coaching staff in regards to hitting...what's the actual point of having a hitting coach? And if he is emphasizing taking the outside pitches (that they're probably going to get a steady stream of), the other way and they're not even trying or listening...therein lies the problem. Is it all Walkers fault. No. But goddamn...what's the point of having a hitting instructor if nobody is listening to him? But again...none of us are around them so we don't know what conversations are taking place. I was under the impression that Walker's job had more to do with fixing mechanics than anything else. If certain hitters aren't listening to Walker, that's a stronger indictment on those players than Walker. Swisher and Fields both got run out of town for refusing to listen to him. I've never believed that hitting coaches have that much of an impact on a veteran team. Not nearly the extent that pitching coaches do. Maybe the Sox's 25 man roster would respond better to somebody other than Walker. But my feeling, with this particular team, is that they're just not that good anymore. I don't think that a guy like Don Mattingly (who has had tremendous success with the Yankees' and Dodgers' lineups) would get any more out of this crew. From what I can tell, firing Walker and replacing him with Joe Average Pitching Coach would help this lineup about as much as kicking one's dog after a Sox loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 04:15 PM) Today's performance should give this thread a boost. One hit against Sergio Mitre and Chad Gaudin at the best launching pad in baseball is not very good. Although, at the same time, I think this team has just quit in general, which goes far beyond the hitting coach. Oh yeah, definitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Apparently no one will ever want to be the Offensive Coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs. They just relieved the current OC of his duties, apparently to send a message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 10:23 AM) Apparently no one will ever want to be the Offensive Coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs. They just relieved the current OC of his duties, apparently to send a message. Offensive coordinators are responsible for writing a team's playbook and getting the players to execute those plays. Hitting coaches are mostly responsible for correcting mechanical flaws in players who already know how to hit. That's why some offensive coordinators are revered and paid big bucks (Mike Martz, Tom Moore) or get promoted to head coach and make big bucks (Mike Holmgren, Andy Reid, Jon Gruden, Mike Shanahan), and why most hitting coaches are paid considerably less and eventually fade in to obscurity (Charlie Manuel is a notable exception). Edited August 31, 2009 by WCSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 12:41 PM) Offensive coordinators are responsible for writing a team's playbook and getting the players to execute those plays. Hitting coaches are mostly responsible for correcting mechanical flaws in players who already know how to hit. That's why some offensive coordinators are revered and paid big bucks (Mike Martz, Tom Moore) or get promoted to head coach and make big bucks (Mike Holmgren, Andy Reid, Jon Gruden, Mike Shanahan), and why most hitting coaches are paid considerably less and eventually fade in to obscurity (Charlie Manuel is a notable exception). Sounds like they're not that important in the grand scheme of things. Why are you so against getting rid of one that's had a very long tenure comparatively speaking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 10:44 AM) Sounds like they're not that important in the grand scheme of things. Why are you so against getting rid of one that's had a very long tenure comparatively speaking? Because if his teaching skills (or lack thereof) aren't the problem, what's the point in getting rid of him? Replacing an offensive coordinator on a football team will drastically change an offense's performance (one way or the other). Replacing Walker will alter the Sox's offense about as much as replacing Jeff Cox. Instead of scapegoating Walker, I'd be looking to address the real problem: the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 01:07 PM) Because if his teaching skills (or lack thereof) aren't the problem, what's the point in getting rid of him? Replacing an offensive coordinator on a football team will drastically change an offense's performance (one way or the other). Replacing Walker will alter the Sox's offense about as much as replacing Jeff Cox. Instead of scapegoating Walker, I'd be looking to address the real problem: the players. That likely would improve the offensive output. Edited August 31, 2009 by Milkman delivers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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