FIRE WALKER

[Chisoxfn]

but... he's ozzie's good buddy....

The Sox don't keep guys around because they are friends with people. Walker was very very upset with Ozzie last year for a long time. Walks a professional.

[Chisoxfn]

Apparently, an article I think it was, came out and stated Walker doesn't handle the vets, just the new guys coming up. So with guys like AJ, Thome, Dye, PK, it's all on them. Walker handles guys like Getz, Alexei, Fields, Beckham(though I wouldn't tinker with him at all), Quentin, and god knows about Rios.

 

I'd say, although I'd like to see Walker fired, he's done somewhat decent. I think there is better out there though. And I want a hitting coach who isn't afraid to coach older guys. Bring back Hriniak.

Vets need to be in pretty long slumps before they tend to go to the hitting coach.

[nitetrain8601]

Vets need to be in pretty long slumps before they tend to go to the hitting coach.

 

I just mean with approaches. "Hey Jim, they have the shift on, get the barrel of the bat closer to your chess and try to go the other way. Hey JD, loosen up on that swing. Don't swing for power, just swing. Hey PK, don't be such a mental midget, take your approach and don't start trying to overthink yourself.

 

It's not like I'm asking him to tell them to change the batting stance, though it worked with Uribe when Hriniak helped him.

[YonderLaroche]

Apparently, an article I think it was, came out and stated Walker doesn't handle the vets, just the new guys coming up. So with guys like AJ, Thome, Dye, PK, it's all on them. Walker handles guys like Getz, Alexei, Fields, Beckham(though I wouldn't tinker with him at all), Quentin, and god knows about Rios.

 

I'd say, although I'd like to see Walker fired, he's done somewhat decent. I think there is better out there though. And I want a hitting coach who isn't afraid to coach older guys. Bring back Hriniak.

 

Thats why he needs to be fired.... the vets haven't hit since 05. This team hits more lazy popouts in one game than any other team does in a week. They need to make adjustments because pitchers get scouting reports and hitters have to make adjustments so they're not getting pounded with a pitch they can't or in there redzone. There ABs are crap for being so talented..

Edited August 27, 2009 by b-Rye

[Chisoxfn]

Thats why he needs to be fired.... the vets haven't hit since 05. This team hits more lazy popouts in one game than any other team does in a week. They need to make adjustments because pitchers get scouting reports and hitters have to make adjustments so they're not getting pounded with a pitch they can't or in there redzone. There ABs are crap for being so talented..

The thing is the vets have hit. Dye has played above his career levels, Paulie has been relatively consistent while healthy, Thome has been what he is for an aging slugger. AJ is having a career year and had always played up to his career levels.

[nitetrain8601]

Thats why he needs to be fired.... the vets haven't hit since 05. This team hits more lazy popouts in one game than any other team does in a week. They need to make adjustments because pitchers get scouting reports and hitters have to make adjustments so they're not getting pounded with a pitch they can't or in there redzone. There ABs are crap for being so talented..

 

I think that falls on either the scouts and/or Walker, probably a combination of both.

 

The thing is the vets have hit. Dye has played above his career levels, Paulie has been relatively consistent while healthy, Thome has been what he is for an aging slugger. AJ is having a career year and had always played up to his career levels.

 

Vets hit really well in '06. In '07, we hit an injury bug. In '08, a lot of our guys slumped. AJ didn't even hit as good as he has this year. Dye was probably the most consistent even though you could tell his bat speed had slowed down. Overall though, this year, minus PK and AJ, our guys have seen regression.

[YonderLaroche]

I think that falls on either the scouts and/or Walker, probably a combination of both.

 

 

 

Vets hit really well in '06. In '07, we hit an injury bug. In '08, a lot of our guys slumped. AJ didn't even hit as good as he has this year. Dye was probably the most consistent even though you could tell his bat speed had slowed down. Overall though, this year, minus PK and AJ, our guys have seen regression.

 

Ever since 05, even in august/early sept 05 dye/thome/konerko get in these alwful slumps of popping out with horrible ab's. This year we won't have one guy with 100rbi, and at the pace we're going one guy with 35 HRs. Teams that don't have a guy with 100rbis don't make the playoffs. neither do teams with crapped out bullpens and old, injured 4 and 5 starters, have Dewayne Wise/Lillibridge on the roster when there's not a major injury. It's just not the hitting, but the whole team has major holes still.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

If Walker is going to be fired then I hope at the very least he's gone after the season, preferably this season if we fall even further out of the race. Make sure the young hitters on the team now and those coming up soon all get a chance to work with the new hitting coach in Spring.

 

If we're going to keep Walker, fine, I don't really care. It's not as much a hitting thing to me as it is an execution thing. We have a few guys capable of putting up some big numbers, and usually they will over a given season. Offensively what pisses me off the most is failing to get the key hits, failing to bring in a man from 2B with no one out or bring in a man on 3B with less than 2 outs, the failure you properly lay down a f***ing bunt, the complete failure to hit a sac fly with ONE out instead of two as it seems so common that with one out we pop up or strike out, and with two we finally hit a ball deep enough. Those things really get to me. We need to be smarter at the plate and take better advantage of our opportunities.

 

Bunting BTW is a key area for improvement because, if we're going to have a manager who is going to bunt when he's not supposed to be bunting, we need to make sure we at least get the f***ing thing down since we're already giving up an out regardless.

 

[Dick Allen]

As I've posted before, who has done much better elsewhere than he did with the Sox offensively? I'm sure Swisher will be the answer, however, one reason Swisher was let go was because he paid no attention to Walker. Name some more. Sometimes its the personnel.

[qwerty]

If a hitting coach serves no purpose i cannot see why every team has one. I wonder why they have been around the game of baseball as long as they have. Boggles my mind.

[TheBigHurt]

I want to ask a serious question:

 

Do you really believe that is what Walker tells them that?

 

 

Walker is a coach on a team run by Ozzie Guillen who loves contact and small ball.

 

Do you really believe that he has a coach who is telling the players the opposite?

 

Or is the simplest answer that the players are just not listening to Greg Walker?

 

Im sorry but most Sox players after they leave the Sox do not all of a sudden become amazing hitters. Most of these players are pretty set on their ways and do not really take well to coaching.

 

Really? You think the reason there's no production is because NO ONE is listening to Greg Walker? Riiiiiight.

 

This team has been almost offensively dead for most of... what, 5 seasons now? Especially post-ASB. Seriously, I don't partake in the Walker debacle often, but I really wish we would hire a new hitting coach. At some point someone has to be held responsible. Either trade away all these hitters who are underachieving (no easy task) or fire Walker. Something needs to change. But knowing the Sox organization, nothing will, most likely.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Really? You think the reason there's no production is because NO ONE is listening to Greg Walker? Riiiiiight.

 

This team has been almost offensively dead for most of... what, 5 seasons now? Especially post-ASB. Seriously, I don't partake in the Walker debacle often, but I really wish we would hire a new hitting coach. At some point someone has to be held responsible. Either trade away all these hitters who are underachieving (no easy task) or fire Walker. Something needs to change. But knowing the Sox organization, nothing will, most likely.

A new hitting coach isn't going to be able to get guys to do what they can't do. Look at the Cubs. How did their change work? At one time Joe Torre was a bad manager. Then he got good players. The same goes with hitting coaches. A team that has even considered having Dewayne Wise, Brent Lillibridge and Jayson Nix leadoff, let alone actually have them lead off is lacking something other than instruction. It would be one thing if guys were great hitters that turned to garbage when they came to the Sox or were garbage with the Sox and became great hitters, but that hasn't happened.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Dick Allen

[TheBigHurt]

A new hitting coach isn't going to be able to get guys to do what they can't do. Look at the Cubs. How did their change work? At one time Joe Torre was a bad manager. Then he got good players. The same goes with hitting coaches. A team that has even considered having Dewayne Wise, Brent Lillibridge and Jayson Nix leadoff, let alone actually have them lead off is lacking something other than instruction. It would be one thing if guys were great hitters that turned to garbage when they came to the Sox or were garbage with the Sox and became great hitters, but that hasn't happened.

 

You really think this experienced and talented a lineup can't learn BASICS of hitting? Because that is essentially what they "can't do" as you say. I thought this was the Majors. Sorry, Dick... but you're not going to tell me a lineup half full of veterans can't figure out how to actually hit the ball without the lift and pull approach. I don't buy that. That's nothing but a ridiculous cop out. If Walker is the problem, a new hitting coach eventually will do a better job. It's time for a damn change already. We can't sit on the same guys forever just for the "old gang to stick together."

Edited August 28, 2009 by TheBigHurt

[Dick Allen]

You really think this experienced and talented a lineup can't learn BASICS of hitting? Because that is essentially what they "can't do" as you say. I thought this was the Majors. Sorry, Dick... but you're not going to tell me a lineup half full of veterans can't figure out how to actually hit the ball without the lift and pull approach. I don't buy that. That's nothing but a ridiculous cop out. If Walker is the problem, a new hitting coach eventually will do a better job. It's time for a damn change already.

The "lift and pull" approach was some BS someone made up on this board. Walker actually is a disciple of Lau/Hriniak, but don't let the facts get in the way of a hachet job. The Texas hitting coach was the flavor of the day. Last year it was suggested the Sox go get him and pay him big money, suddenly Texas has a team with a low OBP low AVG but a lot of homers. Its the personnel. Who would be a better hitter with another team?

[TheBigHurt]

The "lift and pull" approach was some BS someone made up on this board. Walker actually is a disciple of Lau/Hriniak, but don't let the facts get in the way of a hachet job. The Texas hitting coach was the flavor of the day. Last year it was suggested the Sox go get him and pay him big money, suddenly Texas has a team with a low OBP low AVG but a lot of homers. Its the personnel. Who would be a better hitter with another team?

 

Probably a lot of them.

 

BS? Then why does it seem our most veteran hitters seem to always attempt to knock the ball out of park rather than string hits together? Why does this offense CONTINUOUSLY fail to score runners with as little as 0 outs (a considerable amount of time we have guys at 2nd and 3rd no outs and CANNOT score). I'm sure you'll tell me it's entirely the players' doing. Bulls***. It's been like this for years now and it's getting old. SOMEONE needs to get this through to these players; apparently Walker isn't doing it. It's not like I'm making this s*** up.

 

I do not understand this common mentality on this board with people arguing around an argument. So basically you are convinced Walker is the best possible hitting coach we could have right now, correct?

 

I don't know why I even bother. Always lazy excuses; never an intelligent, thought-provoking argument.

Edited August 28, 2009 by TheBigHurt

[Disco72]

Probably a lot of them.

 

BS? Then why does it seem our most veteran hitters seem to always attempt to knock the ball out of park rather than string hits together? Why does this offense CONTINUOUSLY fail to score runners with as little as 0 outs (a considerable amount of time we have guys at 2nd and 3rd no outs and CANNOT score). I'm sure you'll tell me it's entirely the players' doing. Bulls***. It's been like this for years now and it's getting old. SOMEONE needs to get this through to these players; apparently Walker isn't doing it. It's not like I'm making this s*** up.

 

I do not understand this common mentality on this board with people arguing around an argument. So basically you are convinced Walker is the best possible hitting coach we could have right now, correct?

 

I don't know why I even bother. Always lazy excuses; never an intelligent, thought-provoking argument.

 

Nice - insulting the poster. Great way to make your point.

 

Instead of it being 100% Walker, maybe this is the way the players are? There are two "constants" in this equation, Walker and the players, yet you ridicule someone for saying it's the players when you say it must be Walker? Where's the logic in that?

 

At some point, you have to look at the type of players the Sox have. They don't have line drive hitting, high average (by high average, I mean consistently above .300) type hitters. These hitters have been this way their ENTIRE career, but it's Walker's fault they don't change?

 

I'm not saying Walker has no fault, but he gets way too much blame around here. As DA said, every "great" hitting coach looks like a goat within a year or two.

[greg775]

Don't people see the "fire the hitting coach"is such a damn cliche? Why do reasonable sports fans fall for these cliches. The hitting coach doesn't mean a darn thing except for getting tapes ready for the hitters to watch and getting them extra BP scheduled, etc.

I am all for firing Walker just to silence everybody. I couldn't care less if we had him or not, because the position doesn't matter to big leaguers. They are the ones swinging the bat.

 

Other cliches:

Play the backup quarterback (until the backup sucks; then it's clamoring for the No. 3 guy; when he fails, finally apathy sets in).

"Fire the pitching coach": Yes, Cardinal fans were on Duncan earlier this year. I read the column in the St. Louis paper to prove it. Now they love him again.

"Why did Ozzie put in Linebrink?" Uh ... we can't pitch Thornton and Bobby only every night.

"Why did Ozzie put in Dotel?" Uh ... we can't pitch Thornton and Bobby only every night.

"Why did Ozzie put in Pena?" See above plus the fact KW was dumb enough to acquire that hack.

Teams with talent win games.

Edited August 28, 2009 by greg775

[knightni]

Who's Cruz?

[southsider2k5]

Probably a lot of them.

 

BS? Then why does it seem our most veteran hitters seem to always attempt to knock the ball out of park rather than string hits together? Why does this offense CONTINUOUSLY fail to score runners with as little as 0 outs (a considerable amount of time we have guys at 2nd and 3rd no outs and CANNOT score). I'm sure you'll tell me it's entirely the players' doing. Bulls***. It's been like this for years now and it's getting old. SOMEONE needs to get this through to these players; apparently Walker isn't doing it. It's not like I'm making this s*** up.

 

I do not understand this common mentality on this board with people arguing around an argument. So basically you are convinced Walker is the best possible hitting coach we could have right now, correct?

 

I don't know why I even bother. Always lazy excuses; never an intelligent, thought-provoking argument.

 

Lazy, like "lift and pull"

 

Go ahead and provide a link or video with Walker actually preaching that.

[RibbieRubarb]

Probably a lot of them.

 

BS? Then why does it seem our most veteran hitters seem to always attempt to knock the ball out of park rather than string hits together? Why does this offense CONTINUOUSLY fail to score runners with as little as 0 outs (a considerable amount of time we have guys at 2nd and 3rd no outs and CANNOT score). I'm sure you'll tell me it's entirely the players' doing. Bulls***. It's been like this for years now and it's getting old. SOMEONE needs to get this through to these players; apparently Walker isn't doing it. It's not like I'm making this s*** up.

 

I do not understand this common mentality on this board with people arguing around an argument. So basically you are convinced Walker is the best possible hitting coach we could have right now, correct?

 

I don't know why I even bother. Always lazy excuses; never an intelligent, thought-provoking argument.

 

Seriously though...Chuck Norris was awesome! Right?

[TheBigHurt]

Lazy, like "lift and pull"

 

Go ahead and provide a link or video with Walker actually preaching that.

 

Exactly the type of lazy, ignorant post I'm talking about. Looking for any way to try to bash an actually insightful post with no effort whatsoever.

 

I'm not saying he's preaching that. I'm not gonna find a video of it. But I would love to hear the theories of those opposing me of why this type of laziness and lack of IQ at the plate is an epidemic with this team. I'm sure ALL of our hitters are just stupid. And it's been like this for years.

 

 

Seriously, I'm not saying it has to be all Walker's fault... but do some thinking, people. If our hitters are simply dead at the plate almost all season every year, how is the hitting coach not to blame at all? So many of you defend each and every bit of the coaching staff that you seem to forget that they have purposes on this team.

 

Some of you are a real headache to try and have a logical discussion with.

[TheBigHurt]

Nice - insulting the poster. Great way to make your point.

 

Instead of it being 100% Walker, maybe this is the way the players are? There are two "constants" in this equation, Walker and the players, yet you ridicule someone for saying it's the players when you say it must be Walker? Where's the logic in that?

 

At some point, you have to look at the type of players the Sox have. They don't have line drive hitting, high average (by high average, I mean consistently above .300) type hitters. These hitters have been this way their ENTIRE career, but it's Walker's fault they don't change?

 

I'm not saying Walker has no fault, but he gets way too much blame around here. As DA said, every "great" hitting coach looks like a goat within a year or two.

 

Whatever my insult was, I made my point with some actual insight.

 

I never said it was 100% Walker. But apparently you and others think it's 100% the players, and that's equally as absurd.

[qwerty]

See ya around.

[witesoxfan]

Honest to god, where was this post on game 163 of last season? The Sox won it with great starting pitching, great defense, a great bullpen, and BY MOTHERF***ING GOD, the home run.

 

Where was this thread when Greg Walker was the hitting coach of the team that won the World Series in 2005?

 

Where was this thread when Jermaine Dye resurrected his career in Chicago, and became the best free agent signing in White Sox history?

 

Where was this thread when Quentin?

 

Where was this thread when Beckham?

 

 

I'm sorry, I'm sick of Walker too, and I think he needs a replacement, but I think he needs to be replaced by someone the organization feels is actually going to upgrade the hitters and improve their ability. If he is going to be replaced with a guy in AAA, I'd rather have Walker. "Lift and pull" still generates a hell of an offense; Earl Weaver can attest to it.

 

Every offense struggles. If you blame Greg Walker on the Sox not being able to hit pitchers they have never seen (which is currently wrong) or pitchers who have been struggling (which is currently right), then YOU are wrong; you are blaming the advanced scouting staff for not knowing how those pitchers have been attacking hitters recently.

 

Oh, and against a knuckler, you absolutely swing for the motherf***ing fences; if he doesn't get his knuckler over, and you arent swinging towards Japan, you can have 12 base hits in 6 innings and 2 runs (and I'm sure most would like that more right now. I think those that feel that way are wrong).

 

[Soxbadger]

Really? You think the reason there's no production is because NO ONE is listening to Greg Walker? Riiiiiight.

 

This team has been almost offensively dead for most of... what, 5 seasons now? Especially post-ASB. Seriously, I don't partake in the Walker debacle often, but I really wish we would hire a new hitting coach. At some point someone has to be held responsible. Either trade away all these hitters who are underachieving (no easy task) or fire Walker. Something needs to change. But knowing the Sox organization, nothing will, most likely.

 

Im not sure where to start.

 

I never said no one is listening to Greg Walker, I just think that most Sox hitters are set in their ways and are unwilling to change.

 

As for some one being held responsible, once again that is your opinion. In my opinion the Sox are a .500 team that had plenty of questions to start the season. They have kept the team in the race, maybe that is not everyone elses expectations, but those were mine.

 

The organization will do nothing?

 

They add Peavy and Rios, and youre acting like the team just sits around and consistently doesnt go out and get pieces to try and win.

 

Sox have been competitive most years under this coaching staff. I am willing to be patient and give them a chance next year when the team should be better.