FIRE WALKER

[TheBigHurt]

Im not sure where to start.

 

I never said no one is listening to Greg Walker, I just think that most Sox hitters are set in their ways and are unwilling to change.

 

As for some one being held responsible, once again that is your opinion. In my opinion the Sox are a .500 team that had plenty of questions to start the season. They have kept the team in the race, maybe that is not everyone elses expectations, but those were mine.

 

The organization will do nothing?

 

They add Peavy and Rios, and youre acting like the team just sits around and consistently doesnt go out and get pieces to try and win.

 

Sox have been competitive most years under this coaching staff. I am willing to be patient and give them a chance next year when the team should be better.

 

I understand your point and agree to a certain extent, but how do you and others get the idea that because we are barely contending in an absolutely terrible division that that means everything is clicking correctly. It's not; this team is horrendous with RISP and simply can't back up their pitching. They just never seem to click. Obviously this isn't true 100% of the time, but quite often. It has been like this for a long time, and most people agree... because it's true.

 

And I never said anything CLOSE to suggesting the Sox aren't getting pieces. I was only questioning the direction of hitting on this team. You are changing the subject and putting words in my mouth.

[RibbieRubarb]

I understand your point and agree to a certain extent, but how do you and others get the idea that because we are barely contending in an absolutely terrible division that that means everything is clicking correctly. It's not; this team is horrendous with RISP and simply can't back up their pitching. They just never seem to click. Obviously this isn't true 100% of the time, but quite often. It has been like this for a long time, and most people agree... because it's true.

 

And I never said anything CLOSE to suggesting the Sox aren't getting pieces. I was only questioning the direction of hitting on this team. You are changing the subject and putting words in my mouth.

 

I agree with you! They don't know what you're talking about. Fire Walker is a good idea...

 

Invasion USA wasn't. Why did Chuck do that movie?!?

[Dick Allen]

Probably a lot of them.

 

BS? Then why does it seem our most veteran hitters seem to always attempt to knock the ball out of park rather than string hits together? Why does this offense CONTINUOUSLY fail to score runners with as little as 0 outs (a considerable amount of time we have guys at 2nd and 3rd no outs and CANNOT score). I'm sure you'll tell me it's entirely the players' doing. Bulls***. It's been like this for years now and it's getting old. SOMEONE needs to get this through to these players; apparently Walker isn't doing it. It's not like I'm making this s*** up.

 

I do not understand this common mentality on this board with people arguing around an argument. So basically you are convinced Walker is the best possible hitting coach we could have right now, correct?

 

I don't know why I even bother. Always lazy excuses; never an intelligent, thought-provoking argument.

Walker has been a hitting coach for a long time. Several players have come and gone. Name a few who were much better under a different coach. As I said, Swisher was moved in part because he didn't listen to the hitting coach. His dad was his hitting coach. Walker isn't going make Jim Thome a .330 hitter. As long as you have that central core of very streaky hitters, who are station to station guys, your team will score in streaks. You call my excuses lazy, if anyone is being lazy, its you. Name some hitters who where much better under someone else, and find me a better source than a poster on this board for his philosophy of "lift and pull". He's not a bad hitting coach. Konerko many thought was done in 2003 when Walker came over. Paulie gives him all the credit for his comeback which included an ALCS MVP and perhaps the biggest home run in team history in the WS. Once again, you don't want to look at the facts. If anyone's excuses for doing something are lazy or lack a thought provoking argument, its yours.

 

You're lazy answer to my thought-provoking question of who would be a better hitter with another team received, "probably a lot of them". Wow, that's insightful. Most have been with different teams, who hasn't at least hit up to the level they hit before while taking age and injury into question, like Thome.?

Edited August 28, 2009 by Dick Allen

[Milkman delivers]

Walker has been a hitting coach for a long time. Several players have come and gone. Name a few who were much better under a different coach. As I said, Swisher was moved in part because he didn't listen to the hitting coach. His dad was his hitting coach. Walker isn't going make Jim Thome a .330 hitter. As long as you have that central core of very streaky hitters, who are station to station guys, your team will score in streaks. You call my excuses lazy, if anyone is being lazy, its you. Name some hitters who where much better under someone else, and find me a better source than a poster on this board for his philosophy of "lift and pull". He's not a bad hitting coach. Konerko many thought was done in 2003 when Walker came over. Paulie gives him all the credit for his comeback which included an ALCS MVP and perhaps the biggest home run in team history in the WS. Once again, you don't want to look at the facts. If anyone's excuses for doing something are lazy or lack a thought provoking argument, its yours.

 

You're lazy answer to my thought-provoking question of who would be a better hitter with another team received, "probably a lot of them". Wow, that's insightful. Most have been with different teams, who hasn't at least hit up to the level they hit before while taking age and injury into question, like Thome.?

 

He already admitted that he doesn't believe Walker actually says this, but that someone has to be held accountable for a lack of offense (at least consistent offense). In most cases, that is going to fall on the hitting coach.

[southsider2k5]

Exactly the type of lazy, ignorant post I'm talking about. Looking for any way to try to bash an actually insightful post with no effort whatsoever.

 

I'm not saying he's preaching that. I'm not gonna find a video of it. But I would love to hear the theories of those opposing me of why this type of laziness and lack of IQ at the plate is an epidemic with this team. I'm sure ALL of our hitters are just stupid. And it's been like this for years.

 

 

Seriously, I'm not saying it has to be all Walker's fault... but do some thinking, people. If our hitters are simply dead at the plate almost all season every year, how is the hitting coach not to blame at all? So many of you defend each and every bit of the coaching staff that you seem to forget that they have purposes on this team.

 

Some of you are a real headache to try and have a logical discussion with.

 

Yeah, you missed the point totally, not that it is a real surprise. You call people lazy, yet you repeat the same old line over and over, which has been proven an urban legend. I asked you to prove something, and you gave me anecdotal evidence. I'd start looking in the mirror before you keep calling people lazy and ignorant.

[RibbieRubarb]

Yeah, you missed the point totally, not that it is a real surprise. You call people lazy, yet you repeat the same old line over and over, which has been proven an urban legend. I asked you to prove something, and you gave me anecdotal evidence. I'd start looking in the mirror before you keep calling people lazy and ignorant.

 

game.set.match. Well said Mike.

[lostfan]

Exactly the type of lazy, ignorant post I'm talking about. Looking for any way to try to bash an actually insightful post with no effort whatsoever.

 

I'm not saying he's preaching that. I'm not gonna find a video of it. But I would love to hear the theories of those opposing me of why this type of laziness and lack of IQ at the plate is an epidemic with this team. I'm sure ALL of our hitters are just stupid. And it's been like this for years.

 

 

Seriously, I'm not saying it has to be all Walker's fault... but do some thinking, people. If our hitters are simply dead at the plate almost all season every year, how is the hitting coach not to blame at all? So many of you defend each and every bit of the coaching staff that you seem to forget that they have purposes on this team.

 

Some of you are a real headache to try and have a logical discussion with.

God these types of posts are really f***ing annoying. You're being so self-assured, condescending and regurgitating BS when you actually look like you're talking out of your ass. Why do you have to act like this? You're not technically breaking any rules, but who are you kidding?

[BigSqwert]

Hey guys. Lets all simmer down now.

[lostfan]

I'm not angry, that was deliberate and there was a reason for it.

Edited August 28, 2009 by lostfan

[greg775]

Walker has been a hitting coach for a long time. Several players have come and gone. Name a few who were much better under a different coach. As I said, Swisher was moved in part because he didn't listen to the hitting coach. His dad was his hitting coach. Walker isn't going make Jim Thome a .330 hitter. As long as you have that central core of very streaky hitters, who are station to station guys, your team will score in streaks. You call my excuses lazy, if anyone is being lazy, its you. Name some hitters who where much better under someone else, and find me a better source than a poster on this board for his philosophy of "lift and pull". He's not a bad hitting coach. Konerko many thought was done in 2003 when Walker came over. Paulie gives him all the credit for his comeback which included an ALCS MVP and perhaps the biggest home run in team history in the WS. Once again, you don't want to look at the facts. If anyone's excuses for doing something are lazy or lack a thought provoking argument, its yours.

 

You're lazy answer to my thought-provoking question of who would be a better hitter with another team received, "probably a lot of them". Wow, that's insightful. Most have been with different teams, who hasn't at least hit up to the level they hit before while taking age and injury into question, like Thome.?

 

Wow, this may be the post of the year.

Excellent.

People that think Walker is the problem need to keep a journal and write down the times of year they are mad at Walker and times they are neutral. It's all a cliche. Blame the guys with the bat in their hands.

And while you are at it ... boo until your team finally plays the backup quarterback. Cliche city to blame the hitting/pitching coach.

And I don't care if they fire him or not. I just know the next coach won't be any better.

[BigSqwert]

I'm not angry, that was deliberate and there was a reason for it.

I'm just looking for reasons to show more people my new sig. I could care less if you guys get into it.

[lostfan]

I'm just looking for reasons to show more people my new sig. I could care less if you guys get into it.

:lolhitting :lolhitting Awesome

[BigSqwert]

:lolhitting :lolhitting Awesome

Kudos to Steve. Brilliant execution on my idea.

[kapkomet]

Kudos to Steve. Brilliant execution on my idea.

Ok, that's hysterical. Someone needs to send that to KW's white board.

 

[BigSqwert]

Ok, that's hysterical. Someone needs to send that to KW's white board.

Every time I look at it I laugh.

 

[Kyyle23]

Wow, this may be the post of the year.

Excellent.

People that think Walker is the problem need to keep a journal and write down the times of year they are mad at Walker and times they are neutral. It's all a cliche. Blame the guys with the bat in their hands.

And while you are at it ... boo until your team finally plays the backup quarterback. Cliche city to blame the hitting/pitching coach.

And I don't care if they fire him or not. I just know the next coach won't be any better.

 

 

The journal has been written for the past 6 years, if you were paying attention. The Sox suck in April May and into early June, then they have a bonanza of offensive statistics that catch them up in the division, only to tail off shortly after the all star break. It isnt cliche, it happens every year, thats called a trend. When a trend like that is noticed, you need to start examining the people at the top of the food chain, which right now is Walker.

 

 

And spare me your boo BS that you keep preaching. I remember everything you said about Carrasco, only because he is an Ex royal. That was just as good as a boo in my "journal"

[Soxbadger]

The Sox suck in April May and into early June, then they have a bonanza of offensive statistics that catch them up in the division, only to tail off shortly after the all star break. It isnt cliche, it happens every year, thats called a trend. When a trend like that is noticed, you need to start examining the people at the top of the food chain, which right now is Walker.

 

It may be a trend, but that doesnt necessarily mean there is a correlation to the hitting coach.

 

It may be that Sox players hit better in warmer weather.

It be that wind pattens at the Cell carry the ball better in those months.

 

 

It could be Walker, but how does that make any sense? Is he doing his job differently the months that they are doing well and he only decides to do his job that way in the same months every year?

 

That just doesnt really make much sense.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

It may be a trend, but that doesnt necessarily mean there is a correlation to the hitting coach.

 

It may be that Sox players hit better in warmer weather.

It be that wind pattens at the Cell carry the ball better in those months.

 

 

It could be Walker, but how does that make any sense? Is he doing his job differently the months that they are doing well and he only decides to do his job that way in the same months every year?

 

That just doesnt really make much sense.

 

 

This year has been an entire year of crappy 70's weather, yet the trend stays the same. At some point, adjustments are not being noticed or implemented, every year. Something is not right, because most of the players are changing yet the statistics are staying the same

[caulfield12]

To Dick Allen...

 

You're right, there aren't many counterexamples past Swisher and Cabrera has played a tick better this year than last. None of those, alone, are enough to condemn Walker. With AJ, has he adjusted to the new park (from MINN) or simply changed his approach because of his team or Walker? He's having his best season (although RBI's will end up way down) statistically in terms of OPS and AVG.

 

Of course, the core of the line-up's getting older. Dye's career was resuscitated here. Can we blame Walk for Dye falling off the face of the planet along with Konerko the last two months? It it conditioning or age? Better competition/scheduling? The Dog Days of August? Konerko, Thome and Dye have all been accused of having slow/er bats over the past two seasons. Can WALK really do anything about Mother Nature and Father Time?

 

Ryan Sweeney has been about what was expected...a starter on a below average team but probably a 4th OFer or poor man's Aaron Rowand....with Rowand being a poor man's Hunter. If Brandon Allen or C. Carter tears it up somewhere, it has no conection to Walker really.

 

So we have to look at some of the players who failed and why they failed....Joe Borchard, Josh Fields (and he might get a second chance), Brian Anderson, those 3 names come to mind right away. Borchard was more of a scouting FAILURE...as he did nothing when he left here and is out of baseball. Did we fail with Fields and Anderson...we'll see? How much of it was Walk, we'll see again.

 

On the positive side, you have Nix, who nothing was expected of coming into the season. But the problem is that Nix and Quentin have been hitting in the 220's and 230's, so you have the whole OPS versus BA argument again.

 

I tend to agree with Fathom and many others that a change CERTAINLY couldn't hurt or make things any worse in terms of our approach and preparation. In terms of handing Quentin, Rios, Beckham, Nix, Getz, Viciedo, Flowers, Fields, Alexei Ramirez (if he's not traded, personally, I'd put him back at 2B and move Beckham to SS and either find another 3B or give the position to Nix/Fields to fight it out, Getz has been too injury prone and sports a low OBP for his rate of production)....that's a young core of players that will need a lot of instruction and tinkering/guidance (except for Beckham probably, stay out of his way, just let him collect doubles and RBI's please).

 

This thread made me wonder where we'd be had we taken a flier on Andruw Jones as our CFer with Rudy Jaramillo as our hitting coach as well...would be be any better off than a .500 team? Maybe, maybe not...with all of our talent, though, I'd like to think we should at least be 8-12 games over .500.

Edited August 28, 2009 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Who can EXPLAIN why this team, with INARGUABLY more talent than last year's squad (post June version with Beckham, Pods, Rios, Castro, etc.), isn't able to dominate at all in home games like we did in 2008?

 

Is that Walker? Guillen? Sheer luck or chance? If anything, from 2005/06/08, you could count on this team being very dominating at home when the weather finally warmed up, but we're just a slightly above average team at home, and most of our offensive statistics are much better on the road.

Why?

 

Just bad chemistry on this team, like the 01-04 White Sox teams (also injuries) or coaching failure?

[RockRaines]

I'm glad I stayed away from the board during that streak, because threads like this almost always pop up. Fire this guy, release this guy, this guy cant pitch. Blah blah blah.

 

Greg Walker's hitting approach for his players has pretty much echoed the wants and sentiments of EVERYONE on this board. Using the whole field, making contact, making productive outs. He's been quoted time and time again in the papers and on TV yet ignorant comments are continually posted saying that he's the "lift and pull" guy, that the players arent producing because of him. Wake up people. Hitters arent producing because THATS baseball. A good hitter only succeeds about 30 percent of the time, failure is a majority of the acitivity on a baseball field from an offensive perspective.

[BigSqwert]

Rock,

 

How do you explain 6 consecutive seasons of terrible hitting in April and August?

[Chisoxfn]

Rock,

 

How do you explain 6 consecutive seasons of terrible hitting in April and August?

April should be easily explained. It is the coldest month of the year and at the start of the major league season pitchers are typically a little ahead of the hitters (which is weird, because hitters are ahead of pitchers at the beginning of spring training).

 

Plus the team happens to have a few hitters that are notorious slow starters.

[RockRaines]

Rock,

 

How do you explain 6 consecutive seasons of terrible hitting in April and August?

Why do I have to explain that? Are you trying to say Greg Walker has had a direct impact on the hitting in April and August? If so, thats pretty damn crazy.

 

2008 6th

2007 28th

2006 3rd

2005 13

2004 3rd

2003 12

 

Outide of the awful year in 2007, the Sox have been on the top end of the teams in the MLB in runs the last 6 years, finishing in the top 15 each year and the top 10 3 times, including 2 top 3 finishes. How can we explain THAT?

Edited August 28, 2009 by RockRaines

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Why do I have to explain that? Are you trying to say Greg Walker has had a direct impact on the hitting in April and August? If so, thats pretty damn crazy.

 

2008 6th

2007 28th

2006 3rd

2005 13

2004 3rd

2003 12

 

Outide of the awful year in 2007, the Sox have been on the top end of the teams in the MLB in runs the last 6 years, finishing in the top 15 each year and the top 10 3 times, including 2 top 3 finishes. How can we explain THAT?

 

Greg Walker hates the cold so he stays home in April. And he loves the European culture so he takes holiday for the majority of August just like they do.