joeynach Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Has anyone else noticed that Tony Pena has terrible stuff. After watching him pitch for over a month now I believe his pitches can best be described as floating 90-92 mph fastballs. Is it not obvious that all his pitches tend to naturally HANG, especially over the middle of the plate. He needs to get off this team for good!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickofypres Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I know he's sucking now, but honestly, they wouldn't of picked him up if Coop didn't see something he couldn't tweak ala Danks, Floyd, Thornton, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 QUOTE (whitesox901 @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 02:37 AM) I know he's sucking now, but honestly, they wouldn't of picked him up if Coop didn't see something he couldn't tweak ala Danks, Floyd, Thornton, etc. Some are doomed to failure here. See: Aarsdma, David. MacDougal, Mike. The most annoying part is they both turned it around this year...MacDougal after he got cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Escobar Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 He has decent stuff. He just has a flat fastball and not the best control. If any of you saw or can go back and watch the game....He threw like a ridiculous pitch to someone at 97...it looked like a 2 seamer or a screw. Obviously it wasnt because A) no one can do that at that velocity and B) Its Tony Pena. I cant remember who he struck out or if it was the final strike to that batter but it was wicked. Clearly a gun gaffe but I'd love to see that more if it was real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Releasing him now would be incredibly dumb, especially considering the glaring lack of talent in our bullpen going into this winter. He has decent stuff and has had success in the past. Give Coop the chance to straighten him out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Unfortunately we have no options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 QUOTE (whitesox901 @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 03:37 AM) I know he's sucking now, but honestly, they wouldn't of picked him up if Coop didn't see something he couldn't tweak ala Danks, Floyd, Thornton, etc. Coop has nothing to do with personnel decisions. Thornton was the exception, not the rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 QUOTE (joeynach @ Aug 26, 2009 -> 11:10 PM) Has anyone else noticed that Tony Pena has terrible stuff. After watching him pitch for over a month now I believe his pitches can best be described as floating 90-92 mph fastballs. Is it not obvious that all his pitches tend to naturally HANG, especially over the middle of the plate. He needs to get off this team for good!! I don't know what Pena you've been watching, but I've seen him hit 94-96 relatively consistently. I'm not sure what its been the past couple outings but I've seen numerous game with his velocity in the mid 90's. He also gets great sink, but the problem is he doesn't have good command of the "run" on the pitches. He has a lot to learn but stuff wise he's above average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 04:41 PM) I don't know what Pena you've been watching, but I've seen him hit 94-96 relatively consistently. I'm not sure what its been the past couple outings but I've seen numerous game with his velocity in the mid 90's. He also gets great sink, but the problem is he doesn't have good command of the "run" on the pitches. He has a lot to learn but stuff wise he's above average. They're watching the make-believe version of Tony Pena because it helps them when they complain about the Pena-Allen trade over and over, and over, and over... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 with the way relievers go it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was a stud next year. if david aardsma can rack up 30-plus saves for a team that's better than ours then it's hardly out of the realm of possibility that pena could be a real asset at some point. it does still suck we gave up allen for him, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 01:45 PM) They're watching the make-believe version of Tony Pena because it helps them when they complain about the Pena-Allen trade over and over, and over, and over... And if anyone sees a straight fastball, don't you see the downward plain he gets on his pitches, as well as the run. He rarely throws anything straight (hell, he's known for his sinker). He just hasn't had any command for it and the sinker is starting too far up in the zone (so that it stays there) and the movement is running into the bats and the middle portion of the plate. He's just a mess right now, but the guy has a dynamite arm. So did Aardsma and MacDougall, but I never have a problem taking a chance on guys with Pena's arm and I think an off-season with the Sox and some minor tweaks could make him a well above-average set-up men (which is a very very valuable commodity). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I'm willing to give Pena a leash this year (really only because we traded B. Allen for him), but if it's the same story next year, KW has some explaining to do!!! I mean, are we really going to be able to count on Pena to replace Linebrink or Dotel's spot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 09:45 PM) They're watching the make-believe version of Tony Pena because it helps them when they complain about the Pena-Allen trade over and over, and over, and over... Pena has been awful for us. What are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Why do we keep going along with this myth that Coop fixes guys that are flawed? How many guys have gone through our pitching staff that he couldn't turn around? MacDougal Aardsma Riske Koch Vazquez Linebrink Vizcaino Rausch Pena There's probably more I can't think of right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 09:27 PM) Why do we keep going along with this myth that Coop fixes guys that are flawed? How many guys have gone through our pitching staff that he couldn't turn around? MacDougal Aardsma Riske Koch Vazquez Linebrink Vizcaino Rausch Pena There's probably more I can't think of right now. Because the ones he did have turned into some of the better pitchers in baseball. It's your successes that are going to make you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 05:27 PM) Why do we keep going along with this myth that Coop fixes guys that are flawed? How many guys have gone through our pitching staff that he couldn't turn around? MacDougal Aardsma Riske Koch Vazquez Linebrink Vizcaino Rausch Pena There's probably more I can't think of right now. Not all of those guys were "coop will fix 'em" type guys. MacDougall wasn't (but ultimately became one); Riske wasn't (he was with the Sox what he always was), Koch wasn't (he just sucked with the Sox)... and I could go on and on. The "coop" method has been to take guys with great stuff and help them harness it (most famously with Thornton). Pena was a decent pitcher already - he's not some scrap heap guy we're counting on our pitching coach to fix. If Coop can help him gain more control, Pena could turn into the "stud" set-up / closer some people projected him to be. If not, he'll be a middle innings relief pitcher - which is what he has been till now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 04:29 PM) Because the ones he did have turned into some of the better pitchers in baseball. It's your successes that are going to make you. I just find it odd that people are so inconsistent between him and Walker. AJ, Pods, and Beckham are having nice offensive years and Walker gets no credit. Just about the entire bullpen and 3 out of 5 starters suck and no one criticizes Coop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 05:39 PM) I just find it odd that people are so inconsistent between him and Walker. AJ, Pods, and Beckham are having nice offensive years and Walker gets no credit. Just about the entire bullpen and 3 out of 5 starters suck and no one criticizes Coop. I agree with this. Walker takes all the blame when the hitters struggle, but Coop gets no blame for when the pitchers struggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 02:39 PM) I just find it odd that people are so inconsistent between him and Walker. AJ, Pods, and Beckham are having nice offensive years and Walker gets no credit. Just about the entire bullpen and 3 out of 5 starters suck and no one criticizes Coop. I personally am consistent. I don't call for Walker to get fired, nor do I call for Cooper to get fired. I like both of them and in general I'm relatively happy with the coaching staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 QUOTE (Disco72 @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 04:40 PM) I agree with this. Walker takes all the blame when the hitters struggle, but Coop gets no blame for when the pitchers struggle. I think Coop incorrectly gets the benefit of the doubt because of 2005. If we won it all that year because we were an elite offense it might be the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 09:39 PM) I just find it odd that people are so inconsistent between him and Walker. AJ, Pods, and Beckham are having nice offensive years and Walker gets no credit. Just about the entire bullpen and 3 out of 5 starters suck and no one criticizes Coop. Look at the track records of each has to work with. Coop has turned a lot of deemed failed pitchers into stars while Walk has been mainly working with guys with good track records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 04:42 PM) Look at the track records of each has to work with. Coop has turned a lot of deemed failed pitchers into stars while Walk has been mainly working with guys with good track records. Since 2005 the only guy he really turned around was Thornton. He gets way too much praise IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 02:43 PM) Since 2005 the only guy he really turned around was Thornton. He gets way too much praise IMO. Gavin Floyd says hi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 04:44 PM) Gavin Floyd says hi. Nuh uh. You're not with him right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 09:43 PM) Since 2005 the only guy he really turned around was Thornton. He gets way too much praise IMO. Gavin Floyd... Turning Loaiza and Count into the best pitchers in baseball for a period time was no easy task. And Bobby certainly redeemed himself here. His praise is definitely deserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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