The Ozzie Guillen job approval/disapproval poll

[greg775]

I have been and will always be in the camp that says we won the WS in spite of Ozzie Guillen, rather than because of Ozzie Guillen...

 

I don't know how a reasonable person can say this. You know how tough it is to win a WS? Odds are pretty good you'll never see another in your lifetime. Seriously.

[winninguglyin83]

should be a fire Kenny Williams poll.

 

He got garbage (marquez and Betemit) for Nick Swisher.

 

He got mostly garbage (maybe Flowers comes through) for Vazquez, who is having an excellent season.

 

He got garbage for Brandon Allen.

 

He added Rios, who has quickly shown us why Toronto wanted him gone for nothing in return.

 

He added an injured starting pitcher (Peavy) while leaving the 09 staff badly short-handed, triggering this slide.

 

He had a dream that either Colon or Jose could help.

 

He's had a very, very, very bad year at GM.

 

 

[greg775]

should be a fire Kenny Williams poll.

 

He got garbage (marquez and Betemit) for Nick Swisher.

 

He got mostly garbage (maybe Flowers comes through) for Vazquez, who is having an excellent season.

 

He got garbage for Brandon Allen.

 

He added Rios, who has quickly shown us why Toronto wanted him gone for nothing in return.

 

He added an injured starting pitcher (Peavy) while leaving the 09 staff badly short-handed, triggering this slide.

 

He had a dream that either Colon or Jose could help.

 

He's had a very, very, very bad year at GM.

 

Very good post. KW definitely had a bad bad year as well as Oz and our players.

This Rios thing really concerns me if we can't dump him in the offseason.

The guy we got for Allen is awful. Horrible horrible trade.

I totally agree with your post and the Peavy comment as well!

Edited August 31, 2009 by greg775

[whitesoxfan101]

should be a fire Kenny Williams poll.

 

Uhh I started almost the exact same thread/poll on KW too...

Edited August 31, 2009 by whitesoxfan101

[son of a rude]

should be a fire Kenny Williams poll.

 

He got garbage (marquez and Betemit) for Nick Swisher.

 

He got mostly garbage (maybe Flowers comes through) for Vazquez, who is having an excellent season.

 

He got garbage for Brandon Allen.

 

He added Rios, who has quickly shown us why Toronto wanted him gone for nothing in return.

 

He added an injured starting pitcher (Peavy) while leaving the 09 staff badly short-handed, triggering this slide.

 

He had a dream that either Colon or Jose could help.

 

He's had a very, very, very bad year at GM.

Ill be on the other side of the spectrum.

 

He got a future reliever and got some money off the books by trading swisher.

 

He got our future catcher who had almost a 1.000 OPS in AA for the notorious choke artist Javier Vazquez.

 

He got a reliever who is having an off year yet has great stuff for Brandon Allen.

 

He added an above average CF with greats tools for absolutely nothing.

 

He added a cy young winner for some minor leaguers who are performing pretty badly and a low end rotation starter.

 

He added cheap veterans to fill up the 5th spot in the rotation.

 

 

 

I honestly don't get you and greg. He has done an excellent job this year. We have what it takes to win the world series in the future. He added a cy young award winner and filled the CF void that we have had for so long.

 

 

[WCSox]

should be a fire Kenny Williams poll.

 

He got garbage (marquez and Betemit) for Nick Swisher.

 

He got mostly garbage (maybe Flowers comes through) for Vazquez, who is having an excellent season.

 

He got garbage for Brandon Allen.

 

He added Rios, who has quickly shown us why Toronto wanted him gone for nothing in return.

 

He added an injured starting pitcher (Peavy) while leaving the 09 staff badly short-handed, triggering this slide.

 

He had a dream that either Colon or Jose could help.

 

He's had a very, very, very bad year at GM.

 

Worst. Post. Ever.

 

[son of a rude]

Worst. Post. Ever.

he forgot the green font somewhere in there.

[WCSox]

he forgot the green font somewhere in there.

 

Seriously. Kenny Williams adds Jake Peavy and Alex Rios to a team already loaded with a ton of veteran talent, and people think that he did a terrible job this year. Un-freaking-believable.

 

[Dizzy Sox]

Ozzie isn't the problem. An aging, uninspired team is.

[greg775]

He got a reliever who is having an off year yet has great stuff for Brandon Allen.

 

He added an above average CF with greats tools for absolutely nothing.

 

I don't understand the love for Pena.

And Rios? We shall see.

[Paint it Black]

should be a fire Kenny Williams poll.

 

He got garbage (marquez and Betemit) for Nick Swisher.

 

He got mostly garbage (maybe Flowers comes through) for Vazquez, who is having an excellent season.

 

He got garbage for Brandon Allen.

 

He added Rios, who has quickly shown us why Toronto wanted him gone for nothing in return.

 

He added an injured starting pitcher (Peavy) while leaving the 09 staff badly short-handed, triggering this slide.

 

He had a dream that either Colon or Jose could help.

 

He's had a very, very, very bad year at GM.

 

Swisher? The same guy who was written off and really didn't have a position on this team? Oh yeah it didn't help he was benched by THIS TEAM which killed any value he had. Meh I don't miss him still. He really had no value.

 

Vazquez. Another guy written off. How do you get value from this guy? We should be lucky we got Flowers in the deal.

 

Allen. Why do people have this odd infatuation with this guy? Like 1st basemen with power are some rare breed. Also, from what I have read, many scouts don't think Allen will be an everyday player.

 

Rios. Yeah, cause Dye has shown that giving him a deal is worth the years and money. Oh and because Pods/Wise/other bad CF's are better. Please.

 

Peavy. Deal was more of a long term deal. Richard= 5th starter. Meh. Poreda= solid pen arm. Yeah so? I do think Peavy's numbers will regress in the AL but he is definitely worth the two average arms given up in the deal.

 

The Colon or Contreras "dream" is tough because really, who is supposed to pitch? And don't say Richard please, way to inconsistent with no out pitch. Most teams are always looking for a 5th starter so I don't really buy that argument.

 

I will say it is KW's fault this team plays NO DEFENSE outside of a few players.

[LZPride08]

Seriously. Kenny Williams adds Jake Peavy and Alex Rios to a team already loaded with a ton of veteran talent, and people think that he did a terrible job this year. Un-freaking-believable.

 

If the veteran talent made a convincing arguement that they could make it to the playoffs with what they had, kenny wouldn't have gone for those trades. As far as im concerned the Sox got Peavy and Rios for four prospects and that doesn't look like a bad trade looking 1-3 years into the future

[ChiSox_Sonix]

LOL at the people who think firing Guillen would solve the problem(s).

[tonyho7476]

LOL at the people who think firing Guillen would solve the problem(s).

 

Agree...I think without Ozzie we'd be way worse. The team should be embarrassed of themselves.

[winninguglyin83]

not arguing that Swisher should not have been gone. And it saved salary.

 

But get somebody of value back. Marquez will never be a major-league pitcher and Kenny Kool was talking him up as the fifth starter, another Jon Garland, before the season. Hardly. Betemit lost this team at least two or maybe three games with his inept fielding. Too soon to make a call on Nunez.

 

Vaz needed to be moved because of the way he faltered down the stretch last year. But he's miles better than what we replaced him with. Flowers might turn out to be a player. Hope he does. But let's see him do it. But there is considerable debate about his ability to be an effective big-league catcher.

 

And Lillibridge is a total joke who has gotten way too many at bats in the big leagues this season. Gilmore and the other guy we got from the Braves are unknowns.

 

Tony Pena has showed nothing in the heat the pennant race.

 

Rios will be the center fielder and probably be a league average player. The problem is that it won't be long until he is making well beyond league average money.

 

Peavy should be a stud. But getting him crippled our rotation for this year.

 

When a team starts Jose Contreras and Freddy Garcia in four of seven games against the Red Sox and Yankees, that's a Kenny Kool problem, not an Ozzie Guillen problem.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

not arguing that Swisher should not have been gone. And it saved salary.

 

But get somebody of value back. Marquez will never be a major-league pitcher and Kenny Kool was talking him up as the fifth starter, another Jon Garland, before the season. Hardly. Betemit lost this team at least two or maybe three games with his inept fielding. Too soon to make a call on Nunez.

 

Vaz needed to be moved because of the way he faltered down the stretch last year. But he's miles better than what we replaced him with. Flowers might turn out to be a player. Hope he does. But let's see him do it. But there is considerable debate about his ability to be an effective big-league catcher.

 

And Lillibridge is a total joke who has gotten way too many at bats in the big leagues this season. Gilmore and the other guy we got from the Braves are unknowns.

 

Tony Pena has showed nothing in the heat the pennant race.

 

Rios will be the center fielder and probably be a league average player. The problem is that it won't be long until he is making well beyond league average money.

 

Peavy should be a stud. But getting him crippled our rotation for this year.

 

When a team starts Jose Contreras and Freddy Garcia in four of seven games against the Red Sox and Yankees, that's a Kenny Kool problem, not an Ozzie Guillen problem.

 

So what superior offer for Nick Swisher existed out there?

 

[BigSqwert]

So what superior offer for Nick Swisher existed out there?

For real. I don't recall a flurry of offers coming in from all directions.

[winninguglyin83]

Don't know that there were any superiors offers for Swishie.

 

but the guys he got in return were worthless for this season.

 

And, let's remember who thought it was such a great idea to trade for Swishie one year earlier: Kenny Kool.

 

Yes, he won a world series. Yes, he is aggressive and wants to win.

 

But Williams also deserves some of the blame for this mess. Talking about a team with a $95-$100 payroll. And it hasn't worked. Plenty of blame to go around.

 

Just don't forget to give some to Williams. He should not be bulletproof.

[hogan873]

Sigh. I've read through this thread and noticed how it became more of a KW love/hate fest. I still do not understand those that think the Peavy and Rios acquisitions were bad. What a lot of people seem to forget is that both deals were for the now, but more so for the future. Peavy may pitch this year (I hope he does), but regardless he's going to be vital part of the rotation for years to come. Rios is slumping, but I'm sure he'll get back to where his career numbers are. He's a legitimate CFer, can steal bases, can hit well, and even has some power. So, KW gave up Poreda, Richard, and two more minor league arms for a solid #2 or even #1 starter. Oh, and he gave up zilch for Rios. I know, I know, what about the money. Well, we all know cash will be freed up during the off season with the non re-signing of a few guys and maybe even a trade or two.

 

I'm as frustrated as the next guy about this team this year. But things are looking good for 2010 and beyond.

[caulfield12]

Was it predictable that Quentin wouldn't really make a full comeback and Linebrink would be garbage? Probably 75% yes.

 

I just think KW got out-GMed by Dombrowski, the key two moves of the offseason were dumping Sheffield and bringing in Edwin Jackson. Sheffield was a clubhouse cancer over there, and that team really was reborn with a better attitude this year, despite the Magglio/Boras controversy.

 

And we all knew Verlander had the talent, he just hadn't pitched that well since his rookie season.

 

But you have to give them a lot of credit for Jackson, Porcello, Raburn, Thomas, etc.

 

We can look at the home record (DET vs. CHW), head-to-head losses (the Wise 'out at home' game), the combined records against BALT/CLE/KC, but this White Sox team never had an identity, and that's more on KW than Ozzie.

 

You look at the talent in that line-up, it looks like an X-Box team or 2000 all over again. But they've never jelled together, except for maybe a couple of weeks in the middle of the summer, and then culminating in the no-hitter, when we were TIED for one day with DET at five games over .500.

 

I'm all for the Peavy and Rios deals, they're aggressive and forward-thinking.

 

It's just that Dombrowski has done an even better job, and that farm system has filled in some holes....such as Raburn, C. Thomas and the AA catcher Avila.

 

 

[OilCan]

I thought long and hard about this.

 

Keep him.

 

I'm confident that he has improved a great deal. Still makes mistakes but don't we all.

 

I would like to see a veteran bench coach outside of the organization be on Ozzie's staff.

Someone who has a different approach on some things.

That's the part that needs to be shaken up.

 

 

[ThunderBolt]

I strongly disagree with a lot of the decisions that Ozzie has made, but I still like the guy. I can’t really say whether I want him gone quite yet.

[southsider2k5]

Don't know that there were any superiors offers for Swishie.

 

but the guys he got in return were worthless for this season.

 

And, let's remember who thought it was such a great idea to trade for Swishie one year earlier: Kenny Kool.

 

Yes, he won a world series. Yes, he is aggressive and wants to win.

 

But Williams also deserves some of the blame for this mess. Talking about a team with a $95-$100 payroll. And it hasn't worked. Plenty of blame to go around.

 

Just don't forget to give some to Williams. He should not be bulletproof.

 

It doesn't work like that. A GM can't just look at one year. He has to be looking down the road as well. A player's production can matter just as much as his contract does. Getting rid of a player that was going to cost you a ton of money was one hell of an achievement this year. Think of it this way, if Nick Swisher had been a free agent after last season, do you think someone out there would have signed him to a deal equivalent to what he had remaining on his contract? The answer is no. The fact that Kenny got anything for him, and didn't have to pay a dime of his contract was a win. The guy didn't fit in Chicago, pissed off his teammates, wouldn't listen to his coaches, didn't hit, and had no position on this team. Thinking he would have contributed anything worthwhile to this team in 2009 is just silly. To me it was more productive to get a year of minor league experience out of Dayan Viciedo than to have the Nick Swisher Show back for a return engagement.

[ThunderBolt]

The guy didn't fit in Chicago, pissed off his teammates, wouldn't listen to his coaches, didn't hit, and had no position on this team. Thinking he would have contributed anything worthwhile to this team in 2009 is just silly. To me it was more productive to get a year of minor league experience out of Dayan Viciedo than to have the Nick Swisher Show back for a return engagement.

 

He didn't fit in Chicago? Bulls***, the guy ruled the Chicago media for the 1st half of the year. Remember the nicknames? The CSN appearances? The Charity events? Things turned bad for Swish, when things got bad for the team. Swish had an aberration of a year and still managed to hit for power and get on base, even while losing his playing time to Dewayne Wise. By all accounts almost everyone on the team loved him (Jenks and Crede, specifically), and that the main issue was with Ozzie. Furthermore, the majority of the negative feedback comes from Joe Cowley (who might as well be writing for a tabloid) a guy, who didn't like Swish from the start. Also, no position on this team? CF would have looked a lot nicer with him in it for the beginning of the year.

[Chisoxfn]

He didn't fit in Chicago? Bulls***, the guy ruled the Chicago media for the 1st half of the year. Remember the nicknames? The CSN appearances? The Charity events? Things turned bad for Swish, when things got bad for the team. Swish had an aberration of a year and still managed to hit for power and get on base, even while losing his playing time to Dewayne Wise. By all accounts almost everyone on the team loved him (Jenks and Crede, specifically), and that the main issue was with Ozzie. Furthermore, the majority of the negative feedback comes from Joe Cowley (who might as well be writing for a tabloid) a guy, who didn't like Swish from the start. Also, no position on this team? CF would have looked a lot nicer with him in it for the beginning of the year.

All I can tell you is that the above couldn't be more un-true (in regards to how the team as a whole felt about Swish). And while Swisher is having a better season this year, he isn't exactly lighting the world on fire with his sub .250 average.