whitesoxfan101 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 09:35 PM) Because a number of the players flat out should be doing better than they currently are. Which ones? Beckham is a rookie that has been adjusted to, and perhaps is getting tired. Thome/Konerko/Dye are all old and it's late in the season, Quentin has been battling injuries all year, A.J. has been fine, Pods is coming back to earth as we'd all expect, Rios isn't very good, Nix isn't either, Ramirez at SS has been a failed experiment. I'm not overwhelming surprised by a single player in this lineup who is struggling right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 07:52 PM) Which ones? Contreras, Dye, Konerko, Alexei, Linebrink, Dotel, and Pena, to name a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 07:52 PM) Which ones? Beckham is a rookie that has been adjusted to, and perhaps is getting tired. Thome/Konerko/Dye are all old and it's late in the season, Quentin has been battling injuries all year, A.J. has been fine, Pods is coming back to earth as we'd all expect, Rios isn't very good, Nix isn't either, Ramirez at SS has been a failed experiment. I'm not overwhelming surprised by a single player in this lineup who is struggling right now. You just gave a list of people who have been underperforming and then gave excuses for each of them. One or two guys having down seasons I can understand. All of those things happening together...that's not supposed to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 08:11 PM) Rember made me laugh pretty hard. i did it just for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 06:17 PM) Ozzie's handling of Brian was terrible, and there's a great chance Konerko doesn't come back after 2005 without the Thome trade. With the exception of 2007, which was a lost year for the Sox, Rowand's numbers have been very pedestrian. His handling of him may have been terrible but its still up to Brian to produce. He was given plenty of chances and did nothing with them. And while Rowands numbers may have been pedestrian they were still significantly better than anything that has been in CF since. a .270 avg and a .330 OBP with good defense is so pedestrian yet we haven't even gotten close to that since Rowand left. And im not saying you are wrong, im just saying its a glaring hole that only one man can fix, KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 05:37 PM) Kenny Williams set the tone by trading Nick Swisher and Javy Vazquez for zero contributors to the 2009 big league team. I just faced palmed myself for this awful post. Like veterans need the "fire" for more "contributors" to this team. Seriously? Remember how Swishers act got really old? Remember how Vazquez was called out BY HIS OWN MANAGER let alone people on this board for not being "big game" enough? I blame Kenny Williams for the team not being good enough. How does that sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (T R U @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 06:49 PM) Is it Ozzies fault we trade Rowand for Thome and then had nothing but Brian Anderson for years holding out hope he would one day turn the light on? We had a CF problem for years, has nothing to do with Ozzie. AARON ROWAND IS BAD AT BASEBALL. Seriously people stop this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I didn't vote in the poll because there's so much blame from the top on down to go around. However I think KW already made moves in the right direction for the next few years . Build the starting pitching staff and play good defense around them. Rios and Peavy fit this scenario. I expect more moves in the offseason towards those particular goals especially defensively. Sure Rios has looked bad at the plate and Peavy has yet to pitch. It was a calculated risk for this year and we all knew that. More speed, more defense , more pitching and let the chips fall where they may offensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 10:44 PM) AARON ROWAND IS BAD AT BASEBALL. Seriously people stop this. So who said to bring Rowand back? What exactly are people suppose to be stopping? Saying he was a lot better than Brian Anderson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 10:07 PM) You just gave a list of people who have been underperforming and then gave excuses for each of them. One or two guys having down seasons I can understand. All of those things happening together...that's not supposed to happen. I gave "excuses" for two guys (and one is very legit IMO with Beckham). The rest of them are cases where we simply don't have adequate players. You can't blame Konerko, Thome, and Dye for being old, or Nix for being bad, or Pods reverting to the mediocre player he is. They are what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) I still think at least until after the Twins series this isn't a wasted season. Should it come to pass, it lies on the shoulder's of our guys, even then, I think the play of our team may have given us more hope than we should have had- this is a rebuilding season in disquise. To compete till the end? f***ing Fab. I'll keep watching them so as long as they don't play in the Northeastern United States or Twinkle Dome. Kenny and Ozzie have years worth of credit built up in my book, no way this falls on anyone but the guys on the field. Not having checked at all, just for s***s, how did D-Town and the Twinkles fare against Boston and NY away? From what I recall, and I could be wrong, not well. Then we also did pretty good against the Yanks at home (Yup, the same ones that swept us). I can't pronounce them dead right yet. Edited August 31, 2009 by Swingandalongonetoleft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 12:46 AM) I gave "excuses" for two guys (and one is very legit IMO with Beckham). The rest of them are cases where we simply don't have adequate players. You can't blame Konerko, Thome, and Dye for being old, or Nix for being bad, or Pods reverting to the mediocre player he is. They are what they are. So was Kenny just supposed to trade Dye at the all star break? Nobody in the world could have predicted he'd fall off a f***in cliff here in the 2nd half after being productive every year he's been here and playing at an all start level the first half of the season. Pods is the least of our problems, Konerko is right in line with his career stats and I'll give you Thome but it's not like he's been terrible this season either. I really don't see how you can blame Kenny for any of those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 No way it's on Kenny. Turned Anderson into Pods. Wise into Rios. Richard into Peavy. Colon into Freddy. Fields into Kotsay. Gobble into Pena. Betemit into Beckham. Miller into Castro. Lillibridge into Nix. Kenny filled a lot of holes, it's just players aren't nearly living up to their potential. We had five .300 hitters (Pods, Beckham, JD, Paulie, AJ) and now only have one. And only two guys batting better than .280. We had the best bullpen in baseball the beginning of the year. The only players that have gotten better over the year is the rotation, but apparently Buehrle peaks with perfection and goes to hell after that. It's the players fault, because this team should be far from medicore, but they just don't live up to the talent. Only Getz and Beckham are allowed to be less than they can be, because they are rookies starting their first year at the major league level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 12:14 AM) Only Getz and Beckham are allowed to be less than they can be, because they are rookies starting their first year at the major league level. Nix is a rookie also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 01:14 AM) No way it's on Kenny. Kenny filled a lot of holes, it's just players aren't nearly living up to their potential. Dude that's why it IS on Kenny.. His job is to get players who perform, the players aren't performing (not living up to their potential) so how can it be on anyone else? This may just be a bad stretch right now, they may start performing. Thats why im not saying KW needs to go or anything.. however, if there was blame to be placed it should be on the person who CHOSE the players to be on this team that aren't getting the job done. Ozzie is only asked to make dinner, he doesn't get to shop for the ingredients. And its not like we are a small budget team that doesn't have the resources to build a contending team either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (T R U @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 03:53 AM) Dude that's why it IS on Kenny.. His job is to get players who perform, the players aren't performing (not living up to their potential) so how can it be on anyone else? This may just be a bad stretch right now, they may start performing. Thats why im not saying KW needs to go or anything.. however, if there was blame to be placed it should be on the person who CHOSE the players to be on this team that aren't getting the job done. Ozzie is only asked to make dinner, he doesn't get to shop for the ingredients. And its not like we are a small budget team that doesn't have the resources to build a contending team either. Your logic is pretty twisted. "Get players who perform." So if the players have a past success of quality performance before Kenny gets them and they start to under perform once Kenny does get them it's on Kenny? So if Peavy goes 5-15, 5.62 ERA next year that's on Kenny? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (T R U @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 04:53 AM) Dude that's why it IS on Kenny.. His job is to get players who perform, the players aren't performing (not living up to their potential) so how can it be on anyone else? This may just be a bad stretch right now, they may start performing. Thats why im not saying KW needs to go or anything.. however, if there was blame to be placed it should be on the person who CHOSE the players to be on this team that aren't getting the job done. Ozzie is only asked to make dinner, he doesn't get to shop for the ingredients. And its not like we are a small budget team that doesn't have the resources to build a contending team either. Um, the players he got aren't performing. How is that Kenny's fault? It can't be on anyone else BUT the players. That is flawed logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 06:10 PM) Cause on paper it isn't a mediocre team, it's actually a pretty solid one. We have absolutely 0 holes in our lineup yet we can't score runs. Our bullpen looked like one of the best in the league coming into the season and for the first few months it was probably the best. All Kenny has done is add and add and add to this squad and for some reason we're getting worse and it's not because he's bringing in bad players. These assholes(ya, this is how I feel about these guys right now) pretty much quit for some f***in reason and that's on them and the coaching staff. And btw I know it's going to be brought up, but I definitely don't want Ozzie fired this season, I just think he's done a poor job this year. I feel like Kenny is the only one who actually did his job this season, that's why I feel like he doesn't deserve any blame. This pretty well sums up how I feel about this bizarro team. The more holes we fill, the worse we get. Therefore I put 100% of the blame on Mark Buehrle. Isn't it obvious at this point that Mark Buehrle no-hitters are like kryptonite to this organization? See White Sox performance post-no-hitters, 2007, 2009. Case closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RME JICO Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 It is kinda funny that people blame Walker for the hitters sucking, but Cooper is never blamed for the bullpen choking. Someone illustrated that Aardsma, MMac, and Masset are all pitching better than most of our bullpen, yet they were just as bad as our current bullpen when they were here. The bottom line is that it is the players fault. They are paid millions of dollars to play a game that they have been doing for most of their lives. I also blame Getz. Since he has been out, the Sox have really stunk it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 10:46 PM) You can't blame Konerko, Thome, and Dye for being old You also can't rip up their contracts when their skills begin to decline. When you sign veteran talent in their 30's, that's a risk that you have to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 05:42 PM) And especially after we saw what happened to the OF market last offseason, just dumping Swisher's salary was a win. If nothing else, I'm much happier having Rios than Swisher at this point, and it's going to take a Swisher-level of failure next season to convince me otherwise. Not to mention if Vazquez is still here, we don't finish a Peavy trade because of payroll for Swisher and Vazquez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OilCan Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'll say KW. Here's why. To me, from an offensive standpoint, you put together an experienced team. Fine. I'm ok with that. But, their skills collectively have diminished. They no longer resemble a baseball team. They resemble a team that have to depend on the long ball. They resemble a team that is not aggressive enough to make plays on the basepaths. We have pieces to the puzzle. We need more. The core currently stands at (IMHO): Quentin, Rios, Beckham, Ramirez, Konerko and AJ. Somehow you have to fill in more firepower, more speed and more defensive prowess. As much as I love Paulie and AJ, it may be time to start over at those positions too. Pitching wise, the starting looks very good. Peavy, Buehrle, Danks and Floyd. Just need one more. The bullpen is inept, at best. Only Carrasco, Thornton and (maybe) Jenks. I'll say maybe because he does have value to get something in a trade. You can blame players...sure. But the GM makes the team. It does start at the top. I know Kenny can do it. He's aggressive, maybe to a fault. But he is aggressive and has gotten some great/good players. The farm system is getting better too. Just my two cents. I'm fine keeping Paulie as a DH if you can get a 1b who is great defensively and can hit. I'm fine with Quentin in LF, maybe not in RF. Keep Rios at CF, he has more value/ability there. You'll still need a leadoff hitter. Keep surrounding Beckham and the other youngsters with winners. Get aggressive on the basepaths, be smart on the basepaths. Getting a Denard Span or a Chone Figgins would help and would be a start. I had the pleasure of watching LAA v Detroit a few days ago. Let me tell you...LAA is a team, from top to bottom. Speed, bunting, hitting situations, pitching...they got it. I want KW to get THAT type of a team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Even the Angels have flaws in their rotation and bullpen, that's why they went out and got Kazmir. Vladimir Guerrero is a shadow of his former self. I think that team is 50% a product of a very weak AL West. Also, dream on if you think the Twins will give us Denard Span. They'll give us Delmon Young to contribute to our underachieving offense, but they're not going to part with a young/affordable/effective young player like that, especially with the stress on their budgets trying to keep Morneau, Mauer and Nathan. It will be interesting to see what happens with Cuddyer and Kubel going forward as well, that's too much young talent for them to keep more than 2 of those hitters (not including Span because he's still pre-arb). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 The blame game! Walker! Walker, Walker bo Balker Bonana fanna fo Falker Fee fy mo Malker, Walker! This thread doesn't even interest me. I haven't read any posts in it, but I still wanted to throw this in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I blame Wise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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