Thome, $ to LAD for Fuller-Jose to COL for $, Hynick

[WHarris1]

We moved away from slug-ball in 2005 and we won it all.

False.

Edited September 1, 2009 by WHarris1

[Steve9347]

I know he had a high on-base. An I'm not making an argument. I didn't like him. We moved away from slug-ball in 2005 and we won it all. Then we moved back to it in 2006 and we went back to mediocrity. It's not a coincidence IMO. Give me guys who can run and play defense....not the complete opposite (Thome).

We didn't really move away from slug-ball in 2005, we were 4th in the AL in homers. The issue was guys like Pods and Iguchi having career years at the right time, and our pitching being OUT OF THIS WORLD, it had nothing to do with the way our offense played.

Edited September 1, 2009 by Steve9347

[oldsox]

Damn. I'll miss Thome. Hopefully Kenny laid the groundwork for him to go to a contender, and maybe to come back next year.

Why do you want Thome back? You like strikeouts? Time for him to retire.

[LittleHurt05]

I know he had a high on-base. An I'm not making an argument. I didn't like him. We moved away from slug-ball in 2005 and we won it all. Then we moved back to it in 2006 and we went back to mediocrity. It's not a coincidence IMO. Give me guys who can run and play defense....not the complete opposite (Thome).

 

In 2005 we still hit 200 home runs and were 5th in the leagues in HR. Around 9 of our 11 wins in the playoffs consisted of home runs being extremely important part of our offense. Just cause we had a fast leadoff hitter with 59 SBs, I wouldnt say we moved away from slug-ball. in 2006, we won 90 games, but just happened to be in the toughest divison in baseball that year, I wouldnt call that mediocrity.

[kwolf68]

 

The Thome trade was awful. The Sox got nothing for Thome. Although it shows Thome's days are about numbered. Had he been of any value to an AL team, someone would have surely given us more than a 26 year old A ball non prospect. Awful, but it was probably all KW could get for Jim. Best of luck with the Dodgers.

 

The trade with the Rox is good. Contreras is another player completely washed up on this team and we turned him into a fairly decent arm, a guy who in the least should be an effective pitcher in the pen, or possibly long term 5th starter. This trade I like.

 

We just sent two 40 year olds who simply had outserved their usefulness...I'd have liked to have gotten more for Thome, but I see this move as opening up space for some young guys anyway.

[almagest]

Why do you want Thome back? You like strikeouts? Time for him to retire.

No, but I do like having a power-hitting left-handed DH who gets on base a lot. Don't you?

[BigSqwert]

The Thome trade was awful. The Sox got nothing for Thome.

You actually expected to get something for him? The guy is a DH and pinch hitter only. The team trading for him would only have him for 1 month. What were you expecting to get?

[kwolf68]

You actually expected to get something for him? The guy is a DH and pinch hitter only. The team trading for him would only have him for 1 month. What were you expecting to get?

 

 

I said it was awful, because we got nothing for him, which surprised me since he is a guy still with good power from the left side. But if you had read my post you will notice I disclaim that comment with the comment that I said Kenny got all he could get for him. Even if nothing was all he could get, that still doesn't make it a good trade. Maybe we're freeing up money, I don't know, but we just as well should have given Thome to the Dodgers and save the paper work on transferring the player from the Dodgers to the Sox.

 

Juxtapose this deal with the other deal we made. We DID get something of value for Contreras and Jose is horrid.

Edited September 1, 2009 by kwolf68

[Heads22]

Why do people think we traded Jim for our sake? We did it to help him get a ring.

[Steve9347]

Why do people think we traded Jim for our sake? We did it to help him get a ring.

Plus, it's nice and warm in LA.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I said it was awful, because we got nothing for him, which surprised me since he is a guy still with good power from the left side. But if you had read my post you will notice I disclaim that comment with the comment that I said Kenny got all he could get for him. Even if nothing was all he could get, that still doesn't make it a good trade. Maybe we're freeing up money, I don't know, but we just as well should have given Thome to the Dodgers and save the paper work on transferring the player from the Dodgers to the Sox.

 

Juxtapose this deal with the other deal we made. We DID get something of value for Contreras and Jose is horrid.

 

You can't compare deals. Obviously Contreras was more important to Colorado than Thome was to LAD. Also, who knows, maybe another team inquired about Jose too, thus raising his value. Sending Thome to LAD was basically a gift to Jim. Complaining about it is really useless and silly.

[PeavyTime]

Slug-ball is when you sit back and wait for the 3 run homer. That is this team. In 2005, yeah we could mash, but we could also manufacture runs. Every year I can remember before and after 2005, he lived and died by the homer. Not in 2005 though, we won with pitching, defense, timely hitting etc. Thome is none of those things.

[StrangeSox]

Slug-ball is when you sit back and wait for the 3 run homer. That is this team. In 2005, yeah we could mash, but we could also manufacture runs. Every year I can remember before and after 2005, he lived and died by the homer. Not in 2005 though, we won with pitching, defense, timely hitting etc. Thome is none of those things.

 

Thome, unlike many of the 2005 team, is a HoF offensive player.

[LittleHurt05]

Slug-ball is when you sit back and wait for the 3 run homer. That is this team. In 2005, yeah we could mash, but we could also manufacture runs. Every year I can remember before and after 2005, he lived and died by the homer. Not in 2005 though, we won with pitching, defense, timely hitting etc. Thome is none of those things.

 

ALDS Game 1 - we hit 5 homers, including two 3-run bombs

ALDS Game 2 - we won on a 3-run homer

ALCS Games 3 & 4 - 1st inning 3-run & 2-run homers gave us the lead we didnt give up and set the tone

WS Game 1 - game winning run was on a homer

WS Game 2 - the big hit was a grand slam, then a walk-off homer

WS Game -3 - won on a 14th inning homer

[kwolf68]

You can't compare deals. Obviously Contreras was more important to Colorado than Thome was to LAD. Also, who knows, maybe another team inquired about Jose too, thus raising his value. Sending Thome to LAD was basically a gift to Jim. Complaining about it is really useless and silly.

 

 

Sure you can compare the deals. Outside of your rampant speculation (which means nothing) to infer Jose deserved to have more value, I simply was making a point that Contreras netting more than Thome amazed me, because I think Thome can still produce, whereas, Contreras is a BP pitcher at this point.

 

Honestly, I don't see why EITHER of these teams would have wanted either of these players. Thome is purely an AL guy. Obviously, no one bit...so he goes to the NL to PH and be a clubhose guy. Ok, fine...won't get much for that. I get it. Then you have Contreras, a pitcher who has been beyond laughable for most of the last 2 years (his little streak right after coming back from Charlotte was an anomaly)...had Kenny Williams simply CUT Contreras I would not have blinked. Instead, he turned him into a decent looking pitcher from AAA with a bit of upsdie (not great upside, but some).

 

So yea..I can and will compare the deals. I am not really complaining about it either, just making comments. I said the Thome deal was awful and it was, but just because I think it's not a good deal, it's not a trade that's going to ruin the franchise in the least.

Edited September 1, 2009 by kwolf68

[PeavyTime]

Thome, unlike many of the 2005 team, is a HoF offensive player.

And look what it got us over a four year span. If winning baseball games was based on HoFers then the Yankees would have won something this decade.

[boonrob]

Thome, unlike many of the 2005 team, is a HoF offensive player.

 

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Jimmy back with the Sox next season:

-He won't be back with the Dodgers.

-Kenny likes who Kenny likes--loves to bring back guys he once had.

-JT won't need a bunch of $$$$$$

-Sox will need a left handed power hitter

[kwolf68]

Thome is not coming back to Chicago. Kenny is going to get younger and more athletic between now and next season.

Edited September 1, 2009 by kwolf68

[PeavyTime]

Found this on another site:

"To me, Thome symbolizes KW giving right back in to the urge to have the same offense he had from 01-04.

 

On the WS video, he brags about dumping Maggs, Carlos, and Jose to become more versatile. The next season we become station to station again.

 

This team needed to dump Thome. It needs speed and non-pull hitters.

 

Get back to pitching and defense. "

[shago]

Good luck Mr. Incredible ... Hope you get your ring -- thanks for the great memories and the 2008 Division Title ...

[scenario]

IMO the Thome trade wasn't for us... it was for him.

 

Nobody trades a productive player + cash for a 26 year old A-ball scrub because it's good for the ballclub.

 

It was a class move by Kenny to give a future Hall-of-Famer at the end of his career a chance at a ring. Period.

 

 

[Texsox]

ALDS Game 1 - we hit 5 homers, including two 3-run bombs

ALDS Game 2 - we won on a 3-run homer

ALCS Games 3 & 4 - 1st inning 3-run & 2-run homers gave us the lead we didnt give up and set the tone

WS Game 1 - game winning run was on a homer

WS Game 2 - the big hit was a grand slam, then a walk-off homer

WS Game -3 - won on a 14th inning homer

 

Shhh, you may wake up some people.

[JorgeFabregas]

Found this on another site:

"To me, Thome symbolizes KW giving right back in to the urge to have the same offense he had from 01-04.

 

On the WS video, he brags about dumping Maggs, Carlos, and Jose to become more versatile. The next season we become station to station again.

 

This team needed to dump Thome. It needs speed and non-pull hitters.

 

Get back to pitching and defense. "

This team does need pitching and defense.

 

 

They should not be looking for pitching or defense from the designated hitter position of the lineup.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Sure you can compare the deals. Outside of your rampant speculation (which means nothing) to infer Jose deserved to have more value, I simply was making a point that Contreras netting more than Thome amazed me, because I think Thome can still produce, whereas, Contreras is a BP pitcher at this point.

 

I never said he deserved more. Find where I said that. I said he was more valuable to Colorado than Thome was to LAD, which you can clearly see by the fact that one team up an actual prospect and one gave up nothing.

 

 

Honestly, I don't see why EITHER of these teams would have wanted either of these players. Thome is purely an AL guy. Obviously, no one bit...so he goes to the NL to PH and be a clubhose guy. Ok, fine...won't get much for that. I get it. Then you have Contreras, a pitcher who has been beyond laughable for most of the last 2 years (his little streak right after coming back from Charlotte was an anomaly)...had Kenny Williams simply CUT Contreras I would not have blinked. Instead, he turned him into a decent looking pitcher from AAA with a bit of upsdie (not great upside, but some).

 

Well you don't work for a major league baseball team do you. Cuz apparently there were people interested. I dont know, but they were and they're the ones making the decisions.

 

So yea..I can and will compare the deals. I am not really complaining about it either, just making comments. I said the Thome deal was awful and it was, but just because I think it's not a good deal, it's not a trade that's going to ruin the franchise in the least.

 

Yeah, you can. It's dumb and doesn't make sense, but you're right, you can.

 

The Thome was not awful. We shed his salary and gave him a shot at a ring. We're not going to miss his production for the next 34 days. He's a FA at the end of the year and we're done this year.

 

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Found this on another site:

"To me, Thome symbolizes KW giving right back in to the urge to have the same offense he had from 01-04.

 

On the WS video, he brags about dumping Maggs, Carlos, and Jose to become more versatile. The next season we become station to station again.

 

This team needed to dump Thome. It needs speed and non-pull hitters.

 

Get back to pitching and defense. "

 

Well if some poster said that on another site we might as well just go carve that into stone.