Top 10 pick status

[southsider2k5]

Plus you finish strong and it also shows you have a good team and it ensures we don't just entirely blow this thing up. Small changes are needed and I think Kenny knows that.

 

We should get a shot at a pretty good player picking in the top 15 anyway and I expect us to be in that spot.

 

Not to mention what it does to our season ticket base, which in the long run is almost more important than our draft pick when it comes to deciding what the future of the Sox looks like. Let's not forget we have had exactly one good first round pick in the last 15 years or so. That's not very good odds.

[SoxFan562004]

I am fully aware the importance of a good farm system in developing and maintaining a quality MLB team with a managable payroll, but the MLB draft is still such a crap shoot. With the Sox being a big market team and consistently being in the top 10 of payroll the last few years they've proved they will spend money, so they can always get a better prospect later if they're willing to pay.

 

I hope Ozzie gives the younger guys a chance to play here on out and the White Sox have succeess on the field for the month of September. If that costs them a few spots in a notoriously hard to predict draft, than so be it.

 

I also like what the Sox have done by targeting Cuban players, hopefully that extends to more international players who aren't subject to the draft system

[Kalapse]

Not to mention what it does to our season ticket base, which in the long run is almost more important than our draft pick when it comes to deciding what the future of the Sox looks like. Let's not forget we have had exactly one good first round pick in the last 15 years or so. That's not very good odds.

And that 1 pick just happened to be in the top 10. The Sox's last 4 top 10 picks have been Gordon Beckham, Alex Fernandez, Frank Thomas and Jack McDowell. So their track record for top 10 picks is actually rather impressive. Is a large percentage of the season ticket base really going to renew if the Sox go .500 (I really can't see this team performing any better) from here on out as opposed to .300?

[southsider2k5]

And that 1 pick just happened to be in the top 10. The Sox's last 4 top 10 picks have been Gordon Beckham, Alex Fernandez, Frank Thomas and Jack McDowell. So their track record for top 10 picks is actually rather impressive. Is a large percentage of the season ticket base really going to renew if the Sox go .500 (I really can't see this team performing any better) from here on out as opposed to .300?

 

80 wins looks a lot more promising than 70, especially with a guy like Jake Peavy on the horizon. Its a lot harder to sell tickets for a mythical guy that might be here in 2012 or so. We all know that the season ticketholder base means everything to Jerry and the board going forward.

[SoxPride56]

What picks our protected? Isn't it top 13?

[southsider2k5]

What picks our protected? Isn't it top 13?

 

Top 15

[Chisoxfn]

If Kenny knows this team only needs minor tweaks then why would a strong finish change anything?

It impacts the fan base and potentially puts renewals in doubt. If this team wins like 4 games in September that could severely mess a lot of things up.

 

It probably doesn't, but it could. Not to mention winning 4 or 5 games probably means a s***load of guys have really sucked which again makes you question what might be there.

 

Bottom line, I like my teams to win and play good.

[SoxPride56]

Top 15

Thank you!

[Princess Dye]

I don't want this team losing every friggin game now,

 

They are disappointing you then

[Kalapse]

It impacts the fan base and potentially puts renewals in doubt. If this team wins like 4 games in September that could severely mess a lot of things up.

 

It probably doesn't, but it could. Not to mention winning 4 or 5 games probably means a s***load of guys have really sucked which again makes you question what might be there.

Bottom line, I like my teams to win and play good.

Position player wise (since it'd be tough for the pen to get any worse) what players that you really want to see retained might play poorly enough down the stretch that it spells their departure from the team? Pierzynski, Rios, Ramirez, Beckham and Quentin aren't going anywhere (Nix and Getz are likely safe as well). Konerko? Dye? Podsednik?

[Princess Dye]

Beckham talent aside...I will never root for my team to lose. Sorry.

 

The focus should be a championship. If there's no more to be gained by winning games at this point, I am fine with a loss.

 

I wont put on Twins gear or anything, but I'll watch the game and just chuckle more than I normally would when we give up doubles off the trashbag.

[Chisoxfn]

80 wins looks a lot more promising than 70, especially with a guy like Jake Peavy on the horizon. Its a lot harder to sell tickets for a mythical guy that might be here in 2012 or so. We all know that the season ticketholder base means everything to Jerry and the board going forward.

It is also easier to bring in FA's when you are at least coming off a semi-decent season.

[southsider2k5]

Position player wise (since it'd be tough for the pen to get any worse) what players that you really want to see retained might play poorly enough down the stretch that it spells their departure from the team? Pierzynski, Rios, Ramirez, Beckham and Quentin aren't going anywhere (Nix and Getz are likely safe as well). Konerko? Dye? Podsednik?

 

I think Jas is saying if players that we are depending on for next year, which is a good chunk of the roster, perform badly enough that we plummet down the standings many people might not renew based on those some players potentially sucking again next year.

[Kalapse]

I think Jas is saying if players that we are depending on for next year, which is a good chunk of the roster, perform badly enough that we plummet down the standings many people might not renew based on those some players potentially sucking again next year.

You're right, read that wrong. I'm stuck on the "minor tweak" comment. Season ticket renewals is probably the best argument, not sure I buy it but I can see where you're coming from.

[Chisoxfn]

Kalapse, I don't care much in regards to Pods, Konerko, Linebrink, and Dotel. Well I like Pods and Konerko and were stuck with Linebrink next year so I'd hope they'd all do good, but I'm more or less saying, would you want Ramirez, Getz, Beckham, Quentin, Rios, etc all sucking miserably.

 

Would you want Danks and Floyd to get hammered?

 

Those guys are the core for next season, a core that I believe in, and I certainly don't want to watch that core play absolutely miserably and I'm pretty sure season ticket holders wouldn't either.

 

Now the odds of all that happening are slim, but I'd be content if we lost games because Dotel came in and stunk or something along those lines but I want the youngsters playing good and our core to grow.

[hammerhead johnson]

Even if we tank, I'd imagine that the Peavy and Rios acquisitions are gonna convince the majority of season ticket-holders to renew their s***.

 

It's a good point without those major acquisitions, though.

 

 

[southsideirish71]

We had this discussion back in 2007. To me this is about long term importance to the franchise over short term glory. In 2007 we used Frank, Robin, Alex as comparable's for top 10 draft picks. The first time we get a top 10 pick we add a stud in Gordon Beckham. He will have more of an impact to our franchise than a few more wins would of in 2007. A 78 win season sucks, just like a 72 win season. Its shades of bad. Within the top 10 you have a good chance at getting your impact player. Robin Ventura, Frank Thomas, Alex Fernandez did more for season ticket sales than any losing season did to take away from them. Young superstars are worth their weight in gold. Its not always about them getting to the majors as well. A few years back we could of added Miguel Cabrera if we had a better class of prospect.

[Milkman delivers]

Because in his mind it improves the White Sox's chances of winning in the future. I said this in '07 and I truly believe it; how could it possibly be a bad thing to root against your team if you truly believe that a loss is better for the team in the long run than a win? Win 15 of your final 30 and finish in 3rd place with a pick between 13 and 15 or win 8 of 30, finish in 3rd or 4th place and get a top 10 pick? Once you fell your team is out of it you start looking for the best case scenario and in his mind that would be a high draft pick.

 

Exactly.

 

Plus you finish strong and it also shows you have a good team and it ensures we don't just entirely blow this thing up. Small changes are needed and I think Kenny knows that.

 

We should get a shot at a pretty good player picking in the top 15 anyway and I expect us to be in that spot.

 

Then I hope that the young guys come up and perform lights out, but the pieces of crap in the bullpen (Pena, Williams, Linebrink, etc.) blow every single game and we lose out the rest of the year.

 

OK, maybe one or two wins in there to break things up.

[Kalapse]

Kalapse, I don't care much in regards to Pods, Konerko, Linebrink, and Dotel. Well I like Pods and Konerko and were stuck with Linebrink next year so I'd hope they'd all do good, but I'm more or less saying, would you want Ramirez, Getz, Beckham, Quentin, Rios, etc all sucking miserably.

 

Would you want Danks and Floyd to get hammered?

 

Those guys are the core for next season, a core that I believe in, and I certainly don't want to watch that core play absolutely miserably and I'm pretty sure season ticket holders wouldn't either.

 

Now the odds of all that happening are slim, but I'd be content if we lost games because Dotel came in and stunk or something along those lines but I want the youngsters playing good and our core to grow.

No and I doubt they will. If the Sox are going to lose it's going to be because the bullpen blows up or the vets don't hit and frankly that's fine by me. If the Sox lose 3-1 with Danks having a damn good outing but Dotel gave up a big HR late and Podsednik went 0-5 with runners in scoring position I'm ok with it. It also doesn't mean I'm going to sit there and cheer against the team, I'll just be fine with it if they lose. Beckham and Quentin can still perform well in losses, if Podsendik, Dye, Konerko and Pierzynski blow the team isn't going to win.

[Chisoxfn]

No and I doubt they will. If the Sox are going to lose it's going to be because the bullpen blows up or the vets don't hit and frankly that's fine by me. If the Sox lose 3-1 with Danks having a damn good outing but Dotel gave up a big HR late and Podsednik went 0-5 with runners in scoring position I'm ok with it. It also doesn't mean I'm going to sit there and cheer against the team, I'll just be fine with it if they lose. Beckham and Quentin can still perform well in losses, if Podsendik, Dye, Konerko and Pierzynski blow the team isn't going to win.

I agree with that.

[GoodAsGould]

I dont think the difference between a 70 win and an 80 win season is going to have a large impact on tickets next season. Season ticket holders are usually die hard fans and a 10 win difference from last season isnt going to matter for them renewing their tickets or not and as far as everyone else, if we win the fans will show up, the first month is going to be kinda slow regardless.

[Chisoxfn]

I dont think the difference between a 70 win and an 80 win season is going to have a large impact on tickets next season. Season ticket holders are usually die hard fans and a 10 win difference from last season isnt going to matter for them renewing their tickets or not and as far as everyone else, if we win the fans will show up, the first month is going to be kinda slow regardless.

Season ticket holders on bad teams are die-hard fans, but than there is another whole group that will buy more when its a fun event and a ticket you can always hand out, etc.

 

 

[GoodAsGould]

Season ticket holders on bad teams are die-hard fans, but than there is another whole group that will buy more when its a fun event and a ticket you can always hand out, etc.

 

Right, but this season is going to look like a failure either way and a lot of those season ticket holders arent going to show up for most of the remaining home games anyhow. So, I dont see how we finish this season has any relevance to next years tickets unless we make a cleveland in 05 like run for the division which isnt happening.

[witesoxfan]

I hope this team wins or loses every game from here on out. No in between.

[SoxAce]

So far, here's where we stand in the bottom 15.. (top 10 picks, then the others)

 

Washington 46-86 (probably will win the Bryce Harper sweepstakes)

Kansas City 50-81

Pittsburgh 53-78

Baltimore 54-79

San Diego 57-76

Oakland 58-73

Cleveland 58-73

Toronto 59-72

Cincinnati 59-73

New York (N) 59-73 (Who'd thunk it?)

 

Games back of top 10

 

Arizona 60-72 (1 game back)

Houston 63-69 (3.5 games back)

Sox 64-69 (4.5 games back)

Milwaukee 64-67 (5.5 games back)

Cubs 66-64 (8 games back)

*Minnesota 67-65 (8 games back just to add them in here)

 

Washington 51-99

Pittsburgh 56-93

Baltimore 60-91

Cleveland 61-89

Kansas City 63-88

New York (N) 65-87

Arizona 66-86

Toronto 68-83

San Diego 69-83

Houston 70-81

 

Games back of top 10

 

Cincinnati 70-81 (tied; better record last year)

Oakland 72-79 (2 games back)

*Sox 73-79 (2.5 games back)

Milwaukee 74-77 (4 games back)

Tampa Bay 77-74 (6.5 games back)

 

Minnesota 78-73 (7.5 games back)

Cubs 78-72 (8.5 games back)

 

Updated after about 20 games. As you can see, some teams are now playing some good baseball since. Some.. aren't or weren't even on the list earlier. Sox are currently 13th overall as previously but gained a couple games in the standings not to mention it's more of a clusterf*** than before.