BlackBetsy Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 It is eventually going to come out that KW didn't really want Rios on the waiver claim, but was just trying to block him getting traded. No question in my mind, and that J.R. is probably pretty upset about it and won't let KW make any more waiver claims like this. Oh well, Greg Walker will fix him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Drew @ Sep 4, 2009 -> 02:21 AM) There's a reason Kenny could acquire Rios for what he did. The guy is having a bad year, just like pretty much everyone else in the White Sox clubhouse. It happens. But that doesn't mean he should acquire him. I'll be the first to admit Rios is a far better player than what he has shown. He's definitely pressing and wants to hit the ball 800 feet every time up to show his worth. However, $60 million is more than they gave Buerhle, its the same amount they gave Konerko after he helped deliver a WS to the Sox. Considering the we can't spend $1 if all we have is $.50 we hear every year, taking on Rios' contract is questionable at best. KW called out the team for being underachievers. The reason Rios was available was because he was an underachiever. Edited September 4, 2009 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 There's no guarantee that Rios will turn it around and get back to his career numbers. But, it's more likely that it will happen vs. him putting up atrocious numbers forever. The jury still has to be out on Rios. We have to see him the rest of the season and into next season before we can declare him a dog...and I don't see that happening. Someone posted that it's a very small sample size, and that's true. It's like if we were to have started screaming and crying over Cutler's poor performance in the first pre-season game. I'm one of those who thinks Rios will come around. If he can get back to his career numbers (or even close), he's a much better choice than BA. I'll take .280 with 15-20 HRs, 70+ RBIs, and 30 SBs in addition to him being a good CFer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 it's good to see rios is already well on his way to becoming a popular soxtalk whipping boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) I have no problem with paying big for defense and speed...as well as the pop he seems to have The issue is will the pre-arb guys we have make up for that? Great teams have productive up and comers as well as guys who are being paid in the present. Edited September 4, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Is there an award to be the first person to condemn a player as worthless that I don't know about? The guy hasn't even seen a spring with us, and he is already getting thrown off of a cliff? Geesh. Its not like the rest of the team is hitting worth a s*** anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 4, 2009 -> 08:34 AM) Is there an award to be the first person to condemn a player as worthless that I don't know about? The guy hasn't even seen a spring with us, and he is already getting thrown off of a cliff? Geesh. Its not like the rest of the team is hitting worth a s*** anyway. No frickin kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Some of the posters on this site would trade half the team away and fire half the coaching staff on April 2 every year if they could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 4, 2009 -> 08:34 AM) Is there an award to be the first person to condemn a player as worthless that I don't know about? The guy hasn't even seen a spring with us, and he is already getting thrown off of a cliff? Geesh. Its not like the rest of the team is hitting worth a s*** anyway. There is also an award for being the "first to call a season over" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 QUOTE (RibbieRubarb @ Sep 4, 2009 -> 08:42 AM) There is also an award for being the "first to call a season over" Don't forget the "blow this team up" award. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I guess if Frankensteiner can compare Rios to BA I can compare him to BrandoFan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 It is eventually going to come out that KW didn't really want Rios on the waiver claim, but was just trying to block him getting traded. No question in my mind, and that J.R. is probably pretty upset about it and won't let KW make any more waiver claims like this. Oh well, Greg Walker will fix him Then why did KW say he was trying to trade for him before the July 31st deadline? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 QUOTE (BlackBetsy @ Sep 4, 2009 -> 07:01 AM) It is eventually going to come out that KW didn't really want Rios on the waiver claim, but was just trying to block him getting traded. No question in my mind, and that J.R. is probably pretty upset about it and won't let KW make any more waiver claims like this. You really haven't been following this team and know their relationship, then, to think that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 It is all in how it is worded. Judging the first 17 games is fair if properly framed and phrased, for example After a couple weeks as a White Sox player, Rios has done the imaginable - he has made Brian Anderson look good. Predicting the future by just looking at these 17 games, and not the totality of his career, is silly, unfair, and wrong. His early results for the Sox has him fitting right in with the slumping bats. To be fair, predictions on how well he will play in a Sox uniform should be reserved until sometime in late May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 QUOTE (earthshiner @ Sep 3, 2009 -> 11:58 PM) I am not so sure people realize that Rios has only played in 17 games for us. Not sure how anyone can make any sort of judgment on him. I knew it wasn't many games, but THAT'S IT?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Rios has made me completely forget Brian Anderson. How many games has BA played for the Red Sox? 3 games, 6 ab, 3ks, 1 hit. Not losing any sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 One thing that concerns me about Rios' offensive #'s so far for the Sox (and yes the sample size of 66 AB's is obviously very small), is that I think he may already have the "swing for the fences" mentality, which is certainly not what this team needs. His LD% has decreased significantly to 10.4%, and he only hits 39.6% of groundballs. Add that to a 3.7% HR/F percentage and 17 K's in 66 AB's, those type of offensive numbers do have me more than a little concerned. And by all means, people should be able to bag Rios if they want, but at least come up with some justification of why they're doing it by delving into some intelligent baseball discussion instead of just saying "OH RIOS IS WORSE THAN BA!!!!11111" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Rios is here because KW thinks he is #1. I haven't seen anything yet, but maybe next year with a fresh start? I thinkhe is an underperforming spoiled rich kid now, but hopefully he shows me wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyuen Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 QUOTE (hogan873 @ Sep 4, 2009 -> 07:32 AM) There's no guarantee that Rios will turn it around and get back to his career numbers. But, it's more likely that it will happen vs. him putting up atrocious numbers forever. The jury still has to be out on Rios. We have to see him the rest of the season and into next season before we can declare him a dog...and I don't see that happening. Someone posted that it's a very small sample size, and that's true. It's like if we were to have started screaming and crying over Cutler's poor performance in the first pre-season game. I'm one of those who thinks Rios will come around. If he can get back to his career numbers (or even close), he's a much better choice than BA. I'll take .280 with 15-20 HRs, 70+ RBIs, and 30 SBs in addition to him being a good CFer. Many people are saying that some are too quick to judge and next year hs should get back to his norm. The truth is his career numbers are not at all that good. He has 82 homers in 6 seasons. He has hit more than 17 homers once. He has never walked more than 55 times. People perceive him as a 30 homer guy because thats what scouts or baseball people tell us. But hes not even close to that. His numbers with us, without the face, look like Brian Anderson but he will always get a much larger opportunity than BA because of the "potential". I think his upside is a .285 20 hr guy. Hes not a superstar, hes not an all star, and there are plenty of CF better than him. He is certainly not a $60M player. I think he may have a decent year or two for us, but he won't earn that salary. I predict he will end up being one of the most disliked Sox players of our generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 QUOTE (docsox24 @ Sep 4, 2009 -> 08:30 AM) Many people are saying that some are too quick to judge and next year hs should get back to his norm. The truth is his career numbers are not at all that good. He has 82 homers in 6 seasons. He has hit more than 17 homers once. He has never walked more than 55 times. People perceive him as a 30 homer guy because thats what scouts or baseball people tell us. But hes not even close to that. His numbers with us, without the face, look like Brian Anderson but he will always get a much larger opportunity than BA because of the "potential". I think his upside is a .285 20 hr guy. Hes not a superstar, hes not an all star, and there are plenty of CF better than him. He is certainly not a $60M player. I think he may have a decent year or two for us, but he won't earn that salary. I predict he will end up being one of the most disliked Sox players of our generation. There is also more context to those numbers though. For example, he hasn't exactly been playing in a hitter's park up there in Toronto. If you look at the ballpark adjusted OPS+ numbers, he's been a very solid player up through last season and was a top of the league CF and deserving all star for the 2 previous years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I love this thread. Rios is an elite defender which is the Sox biggest weakness. Rios is a career .290 hitter with speed. Rios is 28. The White Sox are paying $10+M for guys that do one thing hit homers and run really slow. Some moron on Ranger's post game show compared his contract to Soriano's.....all I could say is wow. I'd hate for Paevy to get a start this year and get hit around the winter months would be unbearable especially if Dex Carter wins the Aruba winter league ERA championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controlled Chaos Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 New guy, on a new team, trying to impress = Fail. He will be fine once he is able to relax. Baseball is different from most things in life. The harder you try the more you fail. You need to be relaxed. He has good baseball instincts and he'll be fine once they're running the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Rios is obviously a gamble with that contract. That said, I'd rather take my chances with him in 2011, 2012, and 2013 than Paulie. The way I look at this is that the Sox have an aging lineup that is quickly falling apart, and Kenny felt the need to add youth. He tried last year with Swisher, but that didn't work out. Needing somebody capable of filling the gaping void in CF, he went ahead and over-paid for Rios. I may not have pulled the trigger if I were in his position, but he has a better sense of what will be available this winter on the FA market than I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 His OBP of .299 is a season total so I am not juding him on his time with the Sox. He is a better player than what he's shown here so far and he's a better player than Brian Anderson. I never made that argument. I guess reading comprehension isn't a strong point on this forum. All I'm saying is we all thought BA sucked, and Rios is statistically close to, although better than, BA. However, and I can't stress this enough, no one was paying BA 60 f***ING MILLION $$$. Rios has been on a downward trend for 3 years. He will probably play better, but the fact that he is capable of such suckage, even if for a season, means he's not worth the kind of money on his contract. Especially when the Sox cry poor as much as they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (docsox24 @ Sep 4, 2009 -> 10:30 AM) Many people are saying that some are too quick to judge and next year hs should get back to his norm. The truth is his career numbers are not at all that good. He has 82 homers in 6 seasons. He has hit more than 17 homers once. He has never walked more than 55 times. People perceive him as a 30 homer guy because thats what scouts or baseball people tell us. But hes not even close to that. His numbers with us, without the face, look like Brian Anderson but he will always get a much larger opportunity than BA because of the "potential". I think his upside is a .285 20 hr guy. Hes not a superstar, hes not an all star, and there are plenty of CF better than him. He is certainly not a $60M player. I think he may have a decent year or two for us, but he won't earn that salary. I predict he will end up being one of the most disliked Sox players of our generation. I'll admit it, before this year, I thought he was overrated. I used the same arguments you're using. Never hit many homers, blah blah blah. The thing is, the guy hits a bunch of doubles, has the ability to steal 30 bases, and plays great defense in center field of all places. His stats might have looked ordinary last year. He almost hit .300 and hit only 15 home runs. But guess what? He was worth 4.5 wins above average. Any player above 4 wins is all-star caliber. If you want to compare him to any players...Let's just say he was better than Curtis Granderson by .7 wins. Edited September 4, 2009 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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