Octavio Dotel

[greg775]

I would rather have Getz lead off and get somebody like Randy Winn who can play excellent defense. That will be important with the pitching staff we have. I just really doubt that pods repeats what he did this year. All his stats are higher than his career average (BABIP is higher too). Being a year older, he will lose more speed and get even worse in the outfield probably. He just isnt worth it.

 

I just don't understand this. Pods has been incredible as our leadoff man.

Randy Winn??

Why are we assuming Pods will be noticeable worse next season? We complain about the way some of our hitters hit. Pods uses all fields, has been spraying the ball all over. He's stole some bases.

The only negatives are his getting picked off a lot and his defense in center. Why not let him play left and CQ right as there's probably a good chance Dye becomes DH if we keep him around?

[son of a rude]

I just don't understand this. Pods has been incredible as our leadoff man.

Randy Winn??

Why are we assuming Pods will be noticeable worse next season? We complain about the way some of our hitters hit. Pods uses all fields, has been spraying the ball all over. He's stole some bases.

The only negatives are his getting picked off a lot and his defense in center. Why not let him play left and CQ right as there's probably a good chance Dye becomes DH if we keep him around?

He will probably be noticeably worse because his numbers are way above career average and he will be another year older... Why would he repeat almost career best numbers when he is 33? I don't care about stolen bases. He has gotten picked off so many times. He has stolen 27 bases but got caught stealing 10 times. Getting caught stealing hurts a lot more than getting a stolen base helps. He has hurt the team more than he has helped it with his base running.

 

Winn is tons better defensively. He will save a lot of runs in left field or right field. That will be helpful especially with the pitching staff we will have next year. I bet he will have similar numbers to Podsednik next year too.

[greg775]

If you think Randy Winn is a better option that Pods, then we agree to disagree. Winn is also old, older than Pods and yet you are giving him the benefit of the doubt that he'll rebound and have a better year and assume Pods will decline. Don't get it.

But you have your opinion and I have mine. That's cool.

[son of a rude]

Yeah. He may have a good year or he may have another off year. Same can be said for Pods. Both are some what a toss up. Who knows though. The only thing that I am fairly sure about is that Winn will play better defense than pods. That's what I would like the sox to focus on next year.

[witesoxfan]

so, what, exactly is wrong with Beckham being the leadoff hitter next year? It allows the Sox to concentrate their efforts on a LF or RF (whatever they want to do with Quentin) and spend roughly the same amount on a 1-year deal, it allows a consistent starting lineup (Pierzynski, Konerko, Getz/Nix, Ramirez, Beckham, dude/Quentin, Rios, Quentin/dude, Thome (because I think he'll be back)), and it puts a great OBP with great baseball instincts and the ability to steal a base while putting himself in scoring position without having an adventure (and getting eaten by a dragon 1/3 of the time) a ton. Is there really anything wrong with having a guy who will put up, say, .280/.360/.480/.840 with 20 steals and 15-20 homers in the leadoff spot? full-well knowing that you can move him down in the order as he progresses as a hitter?

[son of a rude]

so, what, exactly is wrong with Beckham being the leadoff hitter next year? It allows the Sox to concentrate their efforts on a LF or RF (whatever they want to do with Quentin) and spend roughly the same amount on a 1-year deal, it allows a consistent starting lineup (Pierzynski, Konerko, Getz/Nix, Ramirez, Beckham, dude/Quentin, Rios, Quentin/dude, Thome (because I think he'll be back)), and it puts a great OBP with great baseball instincts and the ability to steal a base while putting himself in scoring position without having an adventure (and getting eaten by a dragon 1/3 of the time) a ton. Is there really anything wrong with having a guy who will put up, say, .280/.360/.480/.840 with 20 steals and 15-20 homers in the leadoff spot? full-well knowing that you can move him down in the order as he progresses as a hitter?

I actually like this idea. If Getz proves he can have a .340+ OBP during spring training or the beginning of the season, bump him up to leadoff and have Beckham bat 2nd. If not, have Beckham leadoff. I would love to have Rios bat 2nd if he bats close to his normal career numbers, but im not sure if it will happen...

[southsider2k5]

That's not the point.

 

It is exactly the point. If we can't get a guy, how can you hold it against the franchise? That is counter logical. We aren't going to get a Derick Jeter no matter what we do. We should be concentrating on who we can get.

[iamshack]

He will probably be noticeably worse because his numbers are way above career average and he will be another year older... Why would he repeat almost career best numbers when he is 33? I don't care about stolen bases. He has gotten picked off so many times. He has stolen 27 bases but got caught stealing 10 times. Getting caught stealing hurts a lot more than getting a stolen base helps. He has hurt the team more than he has helped it with his base running.

 

Winn is tons better defensively. He will save a lot of runs in left field or right field. That will be helpful especially with the pitching staff we will have next year. I bet he will have similar numbers to Podsednik next year too.

 

The one thing about Podsednik is that he seems to be hitting the fastball better than I ever remember him hitting it in 05'. I don't know if that is a mechanical adjustment or what, but he is definitely spraying balls all over the field more so than I can recall him doing in his tenure with us.

 

Maybe he won't hit .300 for us next year, but he certainly seems like an improved hitter, so I wouldn't be surprised to see another season above his career norms.

[ILMOU]

so, what, exactly is wrong with Beckham being the leadoff hitter next year? It allows the Sox to concentrate their efforts on a LF or RF (whatever they want to do with Quentin) and spend roughly the same amount on a 1-year deal, it allows a consistent starting lineup (Pierzynski, Konerko, Getz/Nix, Ramirez, Beckham, dude/Quentin, Rios, Quentin/dude, Thome (because I think he'll be back)), and it puts a great OBP with great baseball instincts and the ability to steal a base while putting himself in scoring position without having an adventure (and getting eaten by a dragon 1/3 of the time) a ton. Is there really anything wrong with having a guy who will put up, say, .280/.360/.480/.840 with 20 steals and 15-20 homers in the leadoff spot? full-well knowing that you can move him down in the order as he progresses as a hitter?

 

^^^^^

 

Agreed, wholeheartedly.

 

One more thing. Ozzie loves getting the early lead in games, especially when he has huge confidence in the pitching staff, as he may again next year. It was a formula that he followed consistently in '05. (It's not exactly my personal philosophy, but it seems to be Ozzie's)

 

Beckham will quite possibly lead the league in doubles next year. Getz is quite possibly our best bunter/moving runners over guy. Why not a lineup that starts: Slayer, Getz, Q? It could provide a lot of 1-0 first inning leads. I'm confident that Getz' OBP will improve with time, and I don't mind him "giving up" AB's as much as I would other players to move the runner.

[Balta1701]

Beckham though might well be an RBI machine if you put people on base in front of him. Think about say, Joe Mauer. He'd be acceptable in the leadoff role because he's a hitting machine, but you really want him hitting with people on base.

 

I really like the Mauer comparisons for Beckham, btw, and intend to keep making them when describing how we should use Becksy.

[WCSox]

I agree that Beckham would be a bad choice to lead off. It would be a waste to have #8 and #9 hitters in front of a guy who drives in a ton of runs. Beckham should hit 2nd or 3rd.

 

I disagree with Getz in the two-hole. A mediocre OBP guy who bunts all of the time would be overly predictable and ineffective, and he doesn't have the OPS to hit in the two-hole. If he brought up his OBP to .350 or so, he'd be a solid leadoff hitter. Especially considering his raw SB numbers and very low CS percentage.

 

[southsider2k5]

Anaheim, New York, Seattle, Minnesota, Baltimore, Toronto, Cleveland, Detroit, Tampa, Texas, and Kansas City all have better options at lead off than the Sox. We haven't even touched the NL.

 

I'm holding it against the franchise because the organization has treated the position like its a unicorn. Obviously reliable lead-off men do exisit. It's time for the Sox to either develop one or acquire one. They are real.

 

How many of those guys can we get?

[Balta1701]

I disagree with Getz in the two-hole. A mediocre OBP guy who bunts all of the time would be overly predictable and ineffective, and he doesn't have the OPS to hit in the two-hole. If he brought up his OBP to .350 or so, he'd be a solid leadoff hitter. Especially considering his raw SB numbers and very low CS percentage.

If it wasn't for that terrible slump he was in during May his OBP on the season would be over .350. It's .357 in the 2nd half. Which is kind of what you expect for a legit rookie...they might take their lumps, but if they're good they work through it.

[iamshack]

I post on a message board. It's the job of the front office to know that answer.

 

Weak.

If you're going to take the position you have, that our situation is "unacceptable," you should at least speculate/propose who may be available and for what. Then maybe you will appreciate how difficult the situation is...

[greg775]

I'm holding it against the franchise because the organization has treated the position like its a unicorn. Obviously reliable lead-off men do exisit. It's time for the Sox to either develop one or acquire one. They are real.

 

Pods has been a real good leadoff hitter this year. He's way better than DeJesus. Way better.

[iamshack]

Figgins, Bourn, Felipe Lopez, and DeJesus could all be acquired and be considered upgrades from Podsednik.

 

Guys like Nyjer Morgan and Rajai Davis could even be considered upgrades.

It's one thing to name off a list of guys.

 

I want to know what we are going to give up or what we are going to have to pay to get them.

 

Felipe Lopez has a career .329 OBP. What an upgrade.

 

Nyjer Morgan has had an serious second half. You think the Nationals are going to trade him now?

Rajai Davis is having a great second half as well. He is a soon to be 29 year old that posted a .272 OBP last year. Are you sure he's better?

Michael Bourne? He doesn't strike me as anyone that is available unless you want to really pay up.

 

I just don't think it is as easy as you'd like us to believe. I also don't think many of the players you name are even upgrades.

 

Maybe a case of the grass is always greener, but not necessarily an improvement.

Edited September 11, 2009 by iamshack

[witesoxfan]

I agree that Beckham would be a bad choice to lead off. It would be a waste to have #8 and #9 hitters in front of a guy who drives in a ton of runs. Beckham should hit 2nd or 3rd.

 

I disagree with Getz in the two-hole. A mediocre OBP guy who bunts all of the time would be overly predictable and ineffective, and he doesn't have the OPS to hit in the two-hole. If he brought up his OBP to .350 or so, he'd be a solid leadoff hitter. Especially considering his raw SB numbers and very low CS percentage.

 

Grady Sizemore and Curtis Granderson could be RBI machines too. They're hitting leadoff because they get on base, hit for power, and steal bases.

 

Chris Getz would also be a solid #2 or #9 hitter in that lineup. #2 because he does have the contact ability, hits left handed, can lay down the bunts, whatever...you don't do it every time he comes to bat, but you do it when you need a run. It actually makes a lot of sense to me. And if Getz gets on at a .330 clip from the 9 spot, that will still leave Beckham with quite a few opportunities to drive him in.

[iamshack]

No one on this board knows that. You're asking what tonights lottery numbers are going to be. I just don't have that information. If I did, I wouldn't be posting here.

You know what I mean. You're smart enough that you can make informed speculation and guess within reason what it would take to get a guy....

[WCSox]

If it wasn't for that terrible slump he was in during May his OBP on the season would be over .350. It's .357 in the 2nd half. Which is kind of what you expect for a legit rookie...they might take their lumps, but if they're good they work through it.

 

If Getz hangs around a .350 OBP all season, that would be a fantastic in-house solution for us. He has everything else you'd want in a leadoff hitter.

 

Grady Sizemore and Curtis Granderson could be RBI machines too. They're hitting leadoff because they get on base, hit for power, and steal bases.

 

Beckham gets on base and hits for power, but doesn't steal bases. That's a negative for a leadoff hitter.

 

The makeup of the rest of the team is also important factor in determining who leads off. Granderson and Sizemore have had a lot of power behind them over the past few years. The Sox are probably not going to be a high-OPS team next year. Unless JT re-joins the Sox this winter, Beckham will probably be #2 on the team in OPS (behind Quentin) in 2010. If this were the 2006 Sox, I'd be fine with Beckham leading off. But unless Kenny goes on an unlikely power-hitting spending spree this winter, the Sox are going to need Beckham's RBI power lower in the lineup. Beckham could very well hit 3rd next year, out of necessity.

 

Chris Getz would also be a solid #2 or #9 hitter in that lineup. #2 because he does have the contact ability, hits left handed, can lay down the bunts, whatever...you don't do it every time he comes to bat, but you do it when you need a run. It actually makes a lot of sense to me. And if Getz gets on at a .330 clip from the 9 spot, that will still leave Beckham with quite a few opportunities to drive him in.

 

Getz from the #9 spot would make sense if his OBP doesn't go over .320 or .330, but you're still taking that RBI opportunity away from Beckham in the first inning if he leads off. You're also not going to get high a OBP out of your #8 hitter. I'd rather go with somebody like Pods leading off, Getz hitting 9th, and Beckham being able to drive in both of them from the two-hole. I just don't see Getz hitting anywhere other than the top or bottom of the lineup. His lack of power and base-stealing proficiency maximizes his value in those two spots. Ideally, Getz will post a .350+ OBP, lead off, and I'll never have to watch Pods in LF again.

Edited September 11, 2009 by WCSox

[iamshack]

I rarely make those kinds of posts. Again, they serve no purpose. How many people would have said it would take Brandon Allen to acquire Tony Pena? What about Gio, Sweeney and De Los? Two days before that trade, if you were to purpose that on Soxtalk. you would have been laughed off the board. Better yet, in 2004, with the Sox looking for a lead-off hitter, who would have thought it would have taken Carlos Lee to acquire Podsednik?

 

I have seen enough trades to know we have no idea the true value of players and what goes on in trade rooms.

And yet you are somehow qualified to make the judgment that it is "unacceptable for the White Sox to have a guy like Podsednik as their leadoff hitter.

 

I'm sorry, but the two positions just don't jive to me.

Edited September 11, 2009 by iamshack

[Balta1701]

If Getz hang around a .350 OBP all season, that would be a fantastic in-house solution for us. He has everything else you'd want in a leadoff hitter.

Hard to know what KW's master plans will be, but I'd really love to see Getz get a shot at it next year. If everyone is actually hitting the way they should, Getz could fit in that #1 slot and then be followed up by Ramirez, Beckham, or even Rios. Put the Boppers (Q, Konerko, Thome or whoever else we bring in for DH) in the middle, and if you can fill your RF slot with something useful then you can maybe just click through that lineup with speed and a ton of doubles surrounding a powerful 3-4-5 spot.

[WCSox]

Hard to know what KW's master plans will be, but I'd really love to see Getz get a shot at it next year. If everyone is actually hitting the way they should, Getz could fit in that #1 slot and then be followed up by Ramirez, Beckham, or even Rios. Put the Boppers (Q, Konerko, Thome or whoever else we bring in for DH) in the middle, and if you can fill your RF slot with something useful then you can maybe just click through that lineup with speed and a ton of doubles surrounding a powerful 3-4-5 spot.

 

I'd be fine with that, especially with the financial constraints that will likely be in play this winter. I also wouldn't mind Kenny offering Pods a one-year deal to be a utility outfielder/pinch runner/insurance policy for the leadoff spot. Not sure if Pods would want to a diminished role, but his speed and OBP strengthen the bench.

 

[greg775]

You said it all: The grass is always greener with other team's players.

If Pods could do this next year (and not get picked off base) I'd want him back in a heartbeat to be our leadoff hitter.

DeJesus? Michael Bourne? Give me a break. Better yet, give me Pods if he puts up similar numbers.

[elrockinMT]

You said it all: The grass is always greener with other team's players.

If Pods could do this next year (and not get picked off base) I'd want him back in a heartbeat to be our leadoff hitter.

DeJesus? Michael Bourne? Give me a break. Better yet, give me Pods if he puts up similar numbers.

 

 

Pods deserves to come back to the Sox. My guess is Dotel, Carrasco, Jenks, et al, in the pen might be back too unless there are options out there affordable and effective. I don't know if any minor league phenoms are ready either. Hudson maybe, but his rise was pretty quick and it wouldn';t hurt to be at AAA for a year

[elrockinMT]

It's one thing to name off a list of guys.

 

I want to know what we are going to give up or what we are going to have to pay to get them.

 

Felipe Lopez has a career .329 OBP. What an upgrade.

 

Nyjer Morgan has had an serious second half. You think the Nationals are going to trade him now?

Rajai Davis is having a great second half as well. He is a soon to be 29 year old that posted a .272 OBP last year. Are you sure he's better?

Michael Bourne? He doesn't strike me as anyone that is available unless you want to really pay up.

 

I just don't think it is as easy as you'd like us to believe. I also don't think many of the players you name are even upgrades.

 

Maybe a case of the grass is always greener, but not necessarily an improvement.

 

 

I used to tell folks who wanted to quit a job and move to another that the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence