Has a KW mid-season move backfired more than Rios?

[Chisoxfn]

I backed the Rios move at the time, but the fact of the matter is he is getting paid a lot of money and needs to step the f*** up next season. If he doesn't, it will turn into a disaster of a move. I know Rios has the ability though and I have faith that he'll get his s*** together.

[Dick Allen]

So do you think they were making up wanting Rios in the past? Plus knowing the way the Sox do budgets and contracts, there is no way they put out a waiver claim on a guy with $60 million outstanding unless they wanted him long term. This isn't the Yankees we are talking about. The Sox are about as conservative as they come. Heck this would have rated as the biggest free agent signing in team history if it had been done that way.

 

What I am saying is they certainly expected Rios to contribute THIS season and I'm saying if he were a free agent after this year, I don't think there's a chance in hell he would get the contract the White Sox were obligated to assume. I am also saying I'm not so sure KW really wanted to take on the entire contract. They may have wanted him before, but perhaps they wanted Toronto to eat some money or take back a contract like a Linebrink that had some money left. KW said he only had $.50, and Rios cost a lot more than $1.Don't you think its at least slightly possible he didn't think Toronto would give him up for nothing and put a claim in to block him from a team like Detroit? It would have made a lot of sense for Detroit to claim him as they would have saved some money the first year. As I stated before, Rios isn't a bad player and will be much better when he gets out of this funk, but he's not a $60 million guy, and regardless of all the money coming off the books, its still $60 million that is now committed and I feel they could get a bigger bang for their buck than Alex Rios. I also stated this at the time of the claim.

[Balta1701]

Let's say this...if KW didn't realize that if he put a waiver claim on Rios, there was a very good shot Torotno would let him go, then he screwed up big time because everyone here realized it the moment we read that a claim had been placed on Rios.

[southsider2k5]

What I am saying is they certainly expected Rios to contribute THIS season and I'm saying if he were a free agent after this year, I don't think there's a chance in hell he would get the contract the White Sox were obligated to assume. I am also saying I'm not so sure KW really wanted to take on the entire contract. They may have wanted him before, but perhaps they wanted Toronto to eat some money or take back a contract like a Linebrink that had some money left. KW said he only had $.50, and Rios cost a lot more than $1.Don't you think its at least slightly possible he didn't think Toronto would give him up for nothing and put a claim in to block him from a team like Detroit? It would have made a lot of sense for Detroit to claim him as they would have saved some money the first year. As I stated before, Rios isn't a bad player and will be much better when he gets out of this funk, but he's not a $60 million guy, and regardless of all the money coming off the books, its still $60 million that is now committed and I feel they could get a bigger bang for their buck than Alex Rios. I also stated this at the time of the claim.

 

There is no doubt they expected him to contribute this season. That doesn't mean this deal was made for this season.

 

And really? The 50 cent line again? Can we just bring up White Flag too?

[southsider2k5]

Let's say this...if KW didn't realize that if he put a waiver claim on Rios, there was a very good shot Torotno would let him go, then he screwed up big time because everyone here realized it the moment we read that a claim had been placed on Rios.

 

The entire planet knew that Rios wouldn't get pulled back, and there is no way random people on a message board knew that, and Kenny didn't.

[Dick Allen]

Let's say this...if KW didn't realize that if he put a waiver claim on Rios, there was a very good shot Torotno would let him go, then he screwed up big time because everyone here realized it the moment we read that a claim had been placed on Rios.

There were several baseball executives that didn't think Toronto would do it, although it seemed obvious they should. If KW had been pursuing Rios before, he probably had a pretty good handle on the situation, but if your team is bleeding money and you can get out of a $60 million committment, ownership will make a non baseball decision. It also seemed obvious Orlando Cabrera should have accepted arbitration last year, but he didn't so sometimes obvious always doesn't pan out.

[SouthsideDon48]

I still think Rios needs to get acclimated, and I don't think he'll be his old self till next season. Isn't this the first time he was traded while up at the major league level? It might take getting used to.

 

For now, though, even though his bat is useless, I think he makes up for it with his defense, which I think is better than even Anderson.

[Dick Allen]

I still think Rios needs to get acclimated, and I don't think he'll be his old self till next season. Isn't this the first time he was traded while up at the major league level? It might take getting used to.

 

For now, though, even though his bat is useless, I think he makes up for it with his defense, which I think is better than even Anderson.

There's no question he's a better player than what he has shown. Of course, Timo Perez is a better player than what Rios has shown.

[oldsox]

Maybe Kenny was trying to improve out draft position. Just kidding. His acquisition of Rios is another example of the 'Greater Fool' theory in general managerhood. One GM (Toronto) offers him $60 MM for 5 years, making him a Fool. What, would Rios not have accepted if he were offered only $40 MM for 4 years? Was some other Fool forcing the price up, or was Toronto just outsmarted by the agent, which is often case? So the Toronto GM, Fool Number 1, wakes up one day to discover that he was a Fool, so he now needs another Fool to take him off the hook. He speed dials Kenny, and the rest is history. Unfortunately, the Fool Train stopped at Kenny's desk. No other GM is a big enough Fool to take Rios off his hands.

 

The 'Greater Fool' theory was originally created and perfected by real estate syndicators. There is a similarity. Both play with funny money. Real estate syndicators used the public's money, and Kenny uses Jerry's money.

[greg775]

Old Sox, what a great post.

I think it describes this situation perfectly.

[fathom]

It's pretty easy: Rios has absolutely sucked since coming over to the White Sox, and I really believe it hurt our team chemistry. With Rios and his questionable work ethic, he's going to have to really fight to get his mechanics back in order. It's awful watching him hit every ball off the end of the bat because he's pulling off so much. I still think KW has had an awful last year as a GM, but that's been rehashed time and again.

[caulfield12]

I guess we'll never know until later how much the Rios situation and 2010 contract affected JD.

 

It's easy to say that it shouldn't have, or to gauge how much of an affect the lawsuit had on Alexei's April/May, but there have been a lot of distractions and the team has seemingly lacked focus or clarity in its style of play all season long, except for brief glimpses of how well this team could really be if all the parts were actually working together.

 

Still, you'd have to say there were MORE issues last year and the "clubhouse chemistry" was seemingly better....despite Swisher, the blow-up doll situation, Cabrera, Vazquez, Crede being shut down by Boras, etc.

[santo=dorf]

Do you really believe the Sox would take on a $60 million + contract when they are 3 games out with 2 months to play and think its for next year and not this, especially considering their CF situation, and expect Rios to be as horrible as he's been? Its not like the guy is a rookie who needs a few months of seasoning. The waiver claim, at least for this year, blew up in KW's face, and as I stated earlier, I'm not so convinced he really wanted Rios, he may have been blocking him, but that's another thing I do not think he would ever admit.

KW came out and said he was inquiring about him before the July 31st deadline when the Sox were 1.5 games out of first, so obviously he was thinking of next year and beyond at the time.

 

I'm betting if the Sox lose Rios on waivers or trade him for a Swisher-esque package, the same people that are currently giving him a free pass will talk about how smart KW is to get such a heavy asset and non-contributor off the books.

[Balta1701]

I'm betting if the Sox lose Rios on waivers or trade him for a Swisher-esque package, the same people that are currently giving him a free pass will talk about how smart KW is to get such a heavy asset and non-contributor off the books.

So, let's say that Rios is traded for a Swisher-esque package. Doesn't that mean that KW acquired a guy for nothing, spent a little bit of money to give him a tryout, then moved him along and turned him in to a couple average prospects? In other words, he would have turned a couple million dollars in to additional system/bullpen depth. That's not the worst move I've ever heard.

[santo=dorf]

Rios has been hurting the team for 5 weeks now. We're trying to win a division title here.

 

We spent $20,000 to claim him and we are paying him $2 million (?) to be a black hole in our lineup.

 

What couple of good prospects came from the Swisher deal?

 

Don't mix up quantity with quality either. The Sox have had success picking players off the scrap heap before spring training that can help out the pitching staff.

Edited September 12, 2009 by santo=dorf

[Balta1701]

Nunez looks quality. \

[santo=dorf]

So he must count as two

 

$2,020,000 can pay for a lot of ST invites.

[oldsox]

So, let's say that Rios is traded for a Swisher-esque package. Doesn't that mean that KW acquired a guy for nothing, spent a little bit of money to give him a tryout, then moved him along and turned him in to a couple average prospects? In other words, he would have turned a couple million dollars in to additional system/bullpen depth. That's not the worst move I've ever heard.

Balta, you are counting on the perpetuation of thr Greater Fool Theory.

[joeynach]

Well the differnce is when KW acquired all those Journeymen they were exactly that...agining and declining players and there was no question about that. With RIOS the sox got him and yeah he was having a bit of down year hitting .265 with 15 Hr's, the crazy thing is that Rios has gotton worse since coming to the sox. You usually dont expect to get a young player in the middle of his career going over to a better a team in a pennant race and for that player to actually play much much worse. Its kind of perplexing.

[iamshack]

I find this thread to be incredibly frustrating.

First of all, we ALL know Rios has been absolutely horrific offensively for us. If I had a goldfish, my goldfish would know that. So for all the people here pointing it out, you might as well be pointing out ad nauseum that men have penises and women have vaginas. Tell us something we don't know.

 

Secondly, DA, this FREAKING OBSESSION you have with the $1/.50 line is incredibly ridiculous. It's like nails on the chalkboard at this point. Honestly, and I say this with all due respect, WHAT THE HELL DO THE WHITE SOX HAVE TO DO TO MAKE YOU STOP BRINGING THAT UP? I ask you that question almost every time you mention this nonsense, and you never answer. So before you bring it up in 2 weeks again in another thread, what do they have to do?

 

Thirdly, this BS about the team chemistry. You know what? If JD is such a soft little b**** that acquiring a player for the future hurts his feelings and ruins his season, then good riddance, Jermaine, because I don't want to see your ass on this team next year. And as long as we are on the point of chemistry, this team has none. It had none before Rios got here. It had none last year, none the year before, and none the year before. It had none in 2004 and 2003 and 2002 and 2001. The only seasons I can ever remember any freaking character out of this club was in 2000 and in 2005. And 2005 was 4 years ago, folks. So I think that chemistry was gone a long time ago.

 

Finally, regarding the actual effect of Rios's play on our team, unless he came here and hit like Albert F'ing Pujuols, we wouldn't be in much different position than we are now. This team has consistently played like suck on offense, defense, on the basepaths, and out of the bullpen. Alex Rios really can only do so much, whether it be good or bad.

Edited September 13, 2009 by iamshack

[iamshack]

Oh and one other thing...

 

Greg...guess what? Baseball is a game of chance. Just because KW went and got Rios and we all thought he would help us win this season, it has not worked out that way. Rios has sucked. He has not helped us win very much at all.

 

But no one ever promised you anything when we acquired Rios. KW never came out and said "I guarantee all White Sox fans this team will now make the playoffs." So live with it! It didn't work out. Accept it. Move on. Start leaving your house again.

 

 

[GreatScott82]

Rios can cover a ton of ground out in CF. We have resolved our CF defensive issue. Rios has proven to hit before. He will hit again. When will that be? The hell if i know, the sooner the better. I was really hoping he drove in Getz with 2 outs in the 9th.

[MexSoxFan#1]

I'll admit that I have been as fustrated with Rios this year but let's give him one full season before we throw him to the curb.

 

I'll be happy if we can get a .275-.280 avg with 20 HRs offensively from him, he has a good glove in CF so I'll be more than pleased with those stats.

[knightni]

I'll admit that I have been as fustrated with Rios this year but let's give him one full season before we throw him to the curb.

...have I got bad news for you, then...

[MexSoxFan#1]

lol

 

You can't blame 'em Knight,we are in a division fight and we do want see results now but I'm seeing this long term.