Has a KW mid-season move backfired more than Rios?

[knightni]

I'm just saying that he'll be here longer than one more season.

[BlackBetsy]

I am convinced that it will come out that KW did not want to pick up Rios' contract and that he assumed waivers would be revoked or that Toronto would eat some of the contract.

[PeavyTime]

I am convinced that it will come out that KW did not want to pick up Rios' contract and that he assumed waivers would be revoked or that Toronto would eat some of the contract.

100% disagree. The second part of you statement is just wrong, why would Toronto pick up any of the contract? That just makes no sense. As for the first part about KW not wanting to pick up his contract, well, that's just wrong too. If Kenny didn't want to pick up his contract, then he never would have claimed him. You don't block a guy from being claimed by another team (which is what you are implying I think) when they have $60 million-ish remaining unless you are cool with being "stuck" with that player. Not to mention, KW admitted trying to trade for Rios before the deadline, so you know he wanted him.

[southsider2k5]

100% disagree. The second part of you statement is just wrong, why would Toronto pick up any of the contract? That just makes no sense. As for the first part about KW not wanting to pick up his contract, well, that's just wrong too. If Kenny didn't want to pick up his contract, then he never would have claimed him. You don't block a guy from being claimed by another team (which is what you are implying I think) when they have $60 million-ish remaining unless you are cool with being "stuck" with that player. Not to mention, KW admitted trying to trade for Rios before the deadline, so you know he wanted him.

 

The Sox do not take risks like that. Again, this would have been the biggest free agent contract ever handed out by the Sox, if it had been on the open market, and not a waiver cliam. If they didn't want the guy, why would they make a $60,000,000 gamble? That is not the JR method of operation.

[greg775]

Oh and one other thing...

 

Greg...guess what? Baseball is a game of chance. Just because KW went and got Rios and we all thought he would help us win this season, it has not worked out that way. Rios has sucked. He has not helped us win very much at all.

 

But no one ever promised you anything when we acquired Rios. KW never came out and said "I guarantee all White Sox fans this team will now make the playoffs." So live with it! It didn't work out. Accept it. Move on. Start leaving your house again.

 

I agree, but haven't we refused to sign some outfielders in the past because they wanted too much money? Why did we have to have Rios?? I've said over and over I'll give him a chance again next spring. There are players I defend a lot, players who get ripped by others. I happen to blast Rios and Pena. Why not get on those who blast some of the other guys.

[santo=dorf]

I am convinced that it will come out that KW did not want to pick up Rios' contract and that he assumed waivers would be revoked or that Toronto would eat some of the contract.

You couldn't possibly be more wrong.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=4390120

Yeah, we're out on a limb a little bit with the last two acquisitions, but what we've seen in recent games at home is our fans are starting to wrap their arms around this team," Williams said. "People are getting excited about the possibility. I think they can see this team being a dangerous team when we get to the playoffs and match up against anyone."

Williams had been trying to trade for Rios, but he said the Blue Jays denied his request for money to help pay his hefty contract.

 

"We had targeted him as the guy who would not only help us here in our quest for our division but in future seasons as well," Williams said.

 

Why wouldn't he want his contract a week after trying to trade for him?

 

 

Hopefully that last blurb from KW will be enough for people to stop giving him a free pass for this season.

[RME JICO]

You couldn't possibly be more wrong.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=4390120

 

 

Why wouldn't he want his contract a week after trying to trade for him?

 

 

Hopefully that last blurb from KW will be enough for people to stop giving him a free pass for this season.

Did we give anything up for him? I thought the point of that statement was if we were trading someone for him, the Jays would have to compensate with some cash.

[iamshack]

I agree, but haven't we refused to sign some outfielders in the past because they wanted too much money? Why did we have to have Rios?? I've said over and over I'll give him a chance again next spring. There are players I defend a lot, players who get ripped by others. I happen to blast Rios and Pena. Why not get on those who blast some of the other guys.

 

Greg, it's not so much about blasting Rios is the fact that every chance you get you place the entire blame of the White Sox being 5 games back on his shoulders. You remind me of a spoiled child sometime, with your statements such as the following:

 

"You'll never convince me Rios and Peavy were not also for THIS YEAR.

We were in the race when we got Rios and EVERYBODY was excited that he'd be something we really needed.

And with Peavy if we could make the playoffs, squeak in, our rotation would all be set up.

Why would it only be for next year if we were right in the thick of the Central race and would have as good a chance as anybody in the playoffs to win it now??

It was for this year as well. Go back and read all the stories and all the fan comments. People were juiced for now. Our rotation would be unstoppable in a short series."

 

"How bout this one:

He makes a helluva lot of money and has security and no real motivation to excel.

The not playing every day is a pretty lame excuse for a guy brought in to help us win a (s***ty) division. He contributed nothing, zip.

I will say he does look good in a uniform and I am hoping for the best next spring when he obtains a new clean slate in my mind (until he proves he can or cannot cut it on the south side). This year however he has to be considered one of the team's biggest disappointments/flops."

 

"I'm very mad Alex Rios has had a terrible year offensively, because he has had prime moments where he could have lifted us to victory and maybe kept us in the race. He has done absolutely nothing at the plate. Some 40/40 guys (yes that's what he has been billed up to be in the majors) can carry a team. He could really have lifted us on that road trip and in those 6 games vs. KC and the O's but simply sucked.

He got here in time to help us THIS YEAR and has failed miserably.

Hopefully he'll get his s*** together for next season.

 

"Now comes the part where somebody makes an excuse for him ...he hasn't played every single game or something like that. Well, we have four outfielders worthy of playing and he was given ample at bats to provide a spark. Yes Dye has also sucked and Pods has failed us on the basepaths, but Rios?? Yuk so far."

 

Well we can judge him on how he's helped the team in a pennant race which is what acquisitions are meant to do. He's not helped at all.

So he deserves some heat."

 

"Why are people so sensitive getting mad at those of us who think Rios is a dog? This team acquired him to help now and he's failed miserably. Same with Pena. He hasn't helped a lick."

 

"Great post.

The reason I currently dislike Rios big time is he failed miserably to do what the Sox brought him in to do this year. Help us win the average Central Divsion. Has he had one big hit yet?

Why acquire him and pay him the big bucks when in past offseasons we've cried poor and not signed cfs way better than No hit Rios?"

 

"Fair point.

When next season starts, I'm sure I'll shut up about Rios and give him until late May to prove he can or cannot be better than Swisher. The reason I currently am down on Rios is I expected to win the s***ty Central this season and I bought into the argument Rios and Peavy would be the keys and might even propel us to the WS. The common perception was if we could keep it close and win the Central even (we were 2 out just a couple weeks ago) our rotation would be murder in the playoffs and we could rely more on just Thornton and Carrasco and not those other bullpen hacks. we were a team allegedly set up to make a strong postseason run with that Peavy and Mark-led rotation and a real center fielder finally.

 

Rios provided no spark, so as a fan yes I am overblaming him. I also was down on Beckham when he got off to the lousy start, but I for the most part shut up, waiting since he's so young. He's rebounded nicely. Rios ... I expected him to be the missing key and indeed there were several games that we were in, where he made KEY OUTS where I happened to be watching."

 

s***, Greg even replies to other people who rip on Rios:

 

QUOTE

The fact that he would spend 11 mil or whatever for Rios and not pony up for a guy like Hudson to have the entire year both confuses and infuriates me.

 

 

"Excellent post; I feel this is the post of the thread."

 

 

So Greg. These are just posts I have pulled in the last two weeks. We get it. You are disappointed in Rios since his acquisition. Enough. Please. For the sake of all of us.

[greg775]

Fair enough. But sometimes when new threads are started or somebody makes a comment, it makes me want to respond and I guess I repeat myself.

 

I will say he will benefit from the day he gets a fresh start with a .000 batting average. He probably would even be a candidate to have a good to great postseason if we made it because he'd be so happy he was starting anew.

I think there's even a chance he'll rebound next year. I like him more than Swisher because at least Rios can glide after balls in the outfield.

 

I will try to stop commenting on Rios but he seems like a hot topic still.

Edited September 13, 2009 by greg775

[Dick Allen]

Secondly, DA, this FREAKING OBSESSION you have with the $1/.50 line is incredibly ridiculous. It's like nails on the chalkboard at this point. Honestly, and I say this with all due respect, WHAT THE HELL DO THE WHITE SOX HAVE TO DO TO MAKE YOU STOP BRINGING THAT UP? I ask you that question almost every time you mention this nonsense, and you never answer. So before you bring it up in 2 weeks again in another thread, what do they have to do?

Very simple. KW needs to quit saying it. He mentions it almost every season, and said it again a few times this year. Once he stops, I stop. I'm just pointing out what he's saying. Aren't you the least bit puzzled that KW had no money but suddenly found an extra $60 million +, that's more than he's given any other player, except for maybe Konerko, for Alex Rios? Then he calls the team underachievers. Why exactly was Alex Rios available for no players? Could it have been he's an underachiever?

 

If he mentions it next year, considering the amount he spent on a decent but not outstanding player, I may set a record reminding people of the White Sox financial situation.

Edited September 13, 2009 by Dick Allen

[iamshack]

Very simple. KW needs to quit saying it. He mentions it almost every season, and said it again a few times this year. Once he stops, I stop. I'm just pointing out what he's saying. Aren't you the least bit puzzled that KW had no money but suddenly found an extra $60 million +, that's more than he's given any other player, except for maybe Konerko, for Alex Rios? Then he calls the team underachievers. Why exactly was Alex Rios available for no players? Could it have been he's an underachiever?

 

If he mentions it next year, considering the amount he spent on a decent but not outstanding player, I may set a record reminding people of the White Sox financial situation.

 

No, I'm not puzzled. It's one thing to sign players prior to the season starting. It's another to add players for 2 months based on your chances to compete for the division.

 

I hate to admit it, Dick. But you're the precise type of fan that causes him to say the things he says. You immediately suspect that the organization is lying about their finances. You assume that they have a secret gold mine underneath US Cellular where they can call upon unlimited funds whenever they are needed.

 

Don't you realize that the organization is basing its ability to pay the salaries of these guys purely on speculation? Don't you realize that KW and Jerry understand that if they stay away from bad contracts they will be able to remain flexible in the future. Meaning they can always trade out of some of these contracts if need be.

 

But to say that they have this money in hand, or somehow budgeted for future seasons is not true. They are simply assuming the contracts won't be albatrosses, and that they will make them fit into the future payroll somehow.

 

Unfortunately, KW has to deal with the likes of Jay Hineybird and every know-it-all fan who expects the White Sox to sign or trade for every high-priced player that becomes available, every year, over and over and over. To sit there and to try and explain to people like that is impossible.

 

Which is why he has to be incredibly simple. You can't spend a dollar if you only have 50 cents. Get it? We aren't signing him. Next.

[Dick Allen]

No, I'm not puzzled. It's one thing to sign players prior to the season starting. It's another to add players for 2 months based on your chances to compete for the division.

 

I hate to admit it, Dick. But you're the precise type of fan that causes him to say the things he says. You immediately suspect that the organization is lying about their finances. You assume that they have a secret gold mine underneath US Cellular where they can call upon unlimited funds whenever they are needed.

 

Don't you realize that the organization is basing its ability to pay the salaries of these guys purely on speculation? Don't you realize that KW and Jerry understand that if they stay away from bad contracts they will be able to remain flexible in the future. Meaning they can always trade out of some of these contracts if need be.

 

But to say that they have this money in hand, or somehow budgeted for future seasons is not true. They are simply assuming the contracts won't be albatrosses, and that they will make them fit into the future payroll somehow.

 

Unfortunately, KW has to deal with the likes of Jay Hineybird and every know-it-all fan who expects the White Sox to sign or trade for every high-priced player that becomes available, every year, over and over and over. To sit there and to try and explain to people like that is impossible.

 

Which is why he has to be incredibly simple. You can't spend a dollar if you only have 50 cents. Get it? We aren't signing him. Next.

 

Actually you are wrong. This is the first year I've ever criticized the White Sox about their payroll, and their ticket prices, its the 20th year I've had season tickets. I have criticized his quote before, because its ridiculous he continues to use it. As I stated in a post several months ago, JR should make it a team policy to never mention finances publicly. It really chapped my ass they raised ticket prices after all season ticketholders were committed and then lowered payroll. I felt,and I'm sure other season ticketholders felt, cheated on. They obviously had money in hand, and spent it on 2 guys. They are paying about $2 million for Rios this year and $4 million for Peavy after KW didn't have any money. He was "encouraged" by the 10,000 or so fans that bought $9 tickets, so he spent some money he claimed he didn't have.

 

We've heard for years and years that every dime that comes in, goes back into the team. I always assumed it was probably very close to the truth, but the reality is JR's policy accourding to Brooks Boyer is he doesn't care if he makes any money, he is opposed to losing any money, and that's fine. He has been quoted before as saying he would bust the budget for a player(s) who can pretty much guarantee winning a championship. Spending $6 million alone for 2 months of Rios and Peavy (and I am on record as saying Peavy is KW greatest move) considering Rios is a waiver claim and there was no guarantee Peavy would pitch at all for the Sox this season, indicates these are players that are far from the types who when added, would guarantee a championship.

 

If you really think the White Sox aren't budgeting for future years when picking up both of these contracts, basically calling me simple is pretty ironic. If the White Sox didn't have a bunch of money coming off the books, there is no way they pick both of these guys up.

Edited September 13, 2009 by Dick Allen

[iamshack]

Actually you are wrong. This is the first year I've ever criticized the White Sox about their payroll, and their ticket prices, its the 20th year I've had season tickets. I have criticized his quote before, because its ridiculous he continues to use it. As I stated in a post several months ago, JR should make it a team policy to never mention finances publicly. It really chapped my ass they raised ticket prices after all season ticketholders were committed and then lowered payroll. I felt,and I'm sure other season ticketholders felt, cheated on. They obviously had money in hand, and spent it on 2 guys. They are paying about $2 million for Rios this year and $4 million for Peavy after KW didn't have any money. He was "encouraged" by the 10,000 or so fans that bought $9 tickets, so he spent some money he claimed he didn't have.

 

We've heard for years and years that every dime that comes in, goes back into the team. I always assumed it was probably very close to the truth, but the reality is JR's policy accourding to Brooks Boyer is he doesn't care if he makes any money, he is opposed to losing any money, and that's fine. He has been quoted before as saying he would bust the budget for a player(s) who can pretty much guarantee winning a championship. Spending $6 million alone for 2 months of Rios and Peavy (and I am on record as saying Peavy is KW greatest move) considering Rios is a waiver claim and there was no guarantee Peavy would pitch at all for the Sox this season, indicates these are players that are far from the types who when added, would guarantee a championship.

 

If you really think the White Sox aren't budgeting for future years when picking up both of these contracts, basically calling me simple is pretty ironic. If the White Sox didn't have a bunch of money coming off the books, there is no way they pick both of these guys up.

 

DA, what point are you trying to make? You're saying the same bs as usual. What the f*** do you want, a copy of the team's financials so you can account for every penny they spend? Your view of the financials is incredibly oversimplistic, as if the organization has a checking account where all credits and debits merely come in and go out, and that is the only source of funding available. Come on, man. Your own personal money situation is more complex than that.

 

Why can't you recognize the fact that the organization's financial situation is fluid? They are able to move money around to adjust on the fly if impact players suddenly become available unexpectedly. Again, do you want to hold that against them?

 

[beck72]

Without getting into all the financials, the Peavy and Rios pick ups were made with Kenny looking ahead into the free agent markets of 2010 and 2011. Few guys have the upside of Peavy and Rios, and few would be able to be signed at the "discounted" prices of those two.

 

With the sox contracts coming off the books after 2009 [dye, thome, Jose, Dotel] and 2010 [pk], and the salaries they shed in Javy and Swisher after 2008, the sox had the flexibility to make these moves. Esp. as the sox have younger, inexpensive players filling other spots. The rotation is set. The Rios acquisition is more of a gamble, but a way to imporve the defense and offnes with one player. IMO, Rios will get back to being the asset he once was on offense.

[iamshack]

Without getting into all the financials, the Peavy and Rios pick ups were made with Kenny looking ahead into the free agent markets of 2010 and 2011. Few guys have the upside of Peavy and Rios, and few would be able to be signed at the "discounted" prices of those two.

 

With the sox contracts coming off the books after 2009 [dye, thome, Jose, Dotel] and 2010 [pk], and the salaries they shed in Javy and Swisher after 2008, the sox had the flexibility to make these moves. Esp. as the sox have younger, inexpensive players filling other spots. The rotation is set. The Rios acquisition is more of a gamble, but a way to imporve the defense and offnes with one player. IMO, Rios will get back to being the asset he once was on offense.

 

Right, but what DA is saying is why didn't the organization spend the money that was available for the 2009 season that was obviously available all year? Instead, the evil money-hoarding bastards pretended as though they had no money. They lied to us again, damn them to hell.

 

As if the White Sox have a checking account, and that account had $8 million sitting in it all year long, just waiting to be used up on an impact player. But they lied and said they had nothing. Obviously they had something, because they went and got Peavy and Rios and have somehow managed to pay their salaries!

 

Damn them, those lying assholes. Who do they think they are going out and getting two players like that?!?

[G&T]

I don't know if this adds to the conversation, but it was interesting:

 

On B&B last week, Boers said that "his guy" with the Sox (who is rarely wrong about anything, BTW) told him that JR is pretty pissed off about how poorly the Sox have played after being told that Rios and Peavy would be enough to make the playoffs. That's what prompted the attempted sell off on Aug. 31 and the "blame me" stuff from Ozzie. I think there is a lot riding on a playoff spot for this team.

[iamshack]

I don't know if this adds to the conversation, but it was interesting:

 

On B&B last week, Boers said that "his guy" with the Sox (who is rarely wrong about anything, BTW) told him that JR is pretty pissed off about how poorly the Sox have played after being told that Rios and Peavy would be enough to make the playoffs. That's what prompted the attempted sell off on Aug. 31 and the "blame me" stuff from Ozzie. I think there is a lot riding on a playoff spot for this team.

Well who wouldn't be? We are all pissed off about how poorly they have played.

 

That being said, I doubt JR is stupid enough to believe that simply because we got these two players that we were guaranteed anything. It certainly was a calculated risk that hasn't paid off thus far. However, to me, the blame shouldn't land on the guys we acquired, but on the guys we already had.

 

Additionally, my guess is they were hoping a playoff appearance would offset the expense incurred this season by adding Peavy and Rios to the payroll.

 

Unfortunately it hasn't worked out so far, and as a result, we may have to cut a bit more out of the payroll next season (for the first half, anyways), but this is how this franchise operates.

[BlackBetsy]

You couldn't possibly be more wrong.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=4390120

 

Yeah, we're out on a limb a little bit with the last two acquisitions, but what we've seen in recent games at home is our fans are starting to wrap their arms around this team," Williams said. "People are getting excited about the possibility. I think they can see this team being a dangerous team when we get to the playoffs and match up against anyone."

 

Williams had been trying to trade for Rios, but he said the Blue Jays denied his request for money to help pay his hefty contract.

 

"We had targeted him as the guy who would not only help us here in our quest for our division but in future seasons as well," Williams said.

Why wouldn't he want his contract a week after trying to trade for him?

 

 

Hopefully that last blurb from KW will be enough for people to stop giving him a free pass for this season.

 

I actually thinks that cuts the other way. Since KW tried to trade for Rios, and Ricciardi asked for things back from KW such that KW wouldn't do the deal, KW assumed that he wouldn't just waive Rios and that a waiver claim was safe.

[Dick Allen]

DA, what point are you trying to make? You're saying the same bs as usual. What the f*** do you want, a copy of the team's financials so you can account for every penny they spend? Your view of the financials is incredibly oversimplistic, as if the organization has a checking account where all credits and debits merely come in and go out, and that is the only source of funding available. Come on, man. Your own personal money situation is more complex than that.

 

Why can't you recognize the fact that the organization's financial situation is fluid? They are able to move money around to adjust on the fly if impact players suddenly become available unexpectedly. Again, do you want to hold that against them?

I'm not holding it against them. You are missing the point. They said they were broke. KW even mentioned (and I know he's was tongue in cheek) playing day games the last couple months to save on the electric bill. Then they pick up over $100 million in contracts, and he mentions the extra walk up, when they were offering $9 tickets as the catalyst in freeing up some money. They know how many tickets they have sold. They knew well in advance the measely numbers they would have for the Boston series. A 15k walk-up is very rare.

 

When KW says something about possible acquisitions, etc. most everyone agrees not to believe everything he says, there's a method to his madness. I agree with that. What I don't understand is why, if a lot of his comments are a smoke screen or simply aren't true, when he talks about his lack of funds, that is gospel. I'll go back to Forbes. I will consider it fair since KW once used Forbes as a reference with Sox finances when there was a favorable report on net income vs. player payroll ratio. According to them, the White Sox have turned over a $70 million profit the past 3 seasons, thats after they have paid the players. Again, I dont have a problem with the White Sox turning a profit, but don't tell me you spend every dollar that comes in. Maybe this year with the economy and picking up 2 huge contracts in season, something I can't ever recall them doing, it turned out not to be true, but when I got on my bandwagon, they didn't have Peavy or Rios, so despite the criticizms from the guys who pray to KW when they wake up every morning, I apparently was correct.

Edited September 13, 2009 by Dick Allen

[iamshack]

I'm not holding it against them. You are missing the point. They said they were broke. KW even mentioned (and I know he's was tongue in cheek) playing day games the last couple months to save on the electric bill. Then they pick up over $100 million in contracts, and he mentions the extra walk up, when they were offering $9 tickets as the catalyst in freeing up some money. They know how many tickets they have sold. They knew well in advance the measely numbers they would have for the Boston series. A 15k walk-up is very rare.

 

When KW says something about possible acquisitions, etc. most everyone agrees not to believe everything he says, there's a method to his madness. I agree with that. What I don't understand is why, if a lot of his comments are a smoke screen or simply aren't true, when he talks about his lack of funds, that is gospel. I'll go back to Forbes. I will consider it fair since KW once used Forbes as a reference with Sox finances when there was a favorable report on net income vs. player payroll ratio. According to them, the White Sox have turned over a $70 million profit the past 3 seasons, thats after they have paid the players. Again, I dont have a problem with the White Sox turning a profit, but don't tell me you spend every dollar that comes in. Maybe this year with the economy and picking up 2 huge contracts in season, something I can't ever recall them doing, it turned out not to be true, but when I got on my bandwagon, they didn't have Peavy or Rios, so despite the criticizms from the guys who pray to KW when they wake up every morning, I apparently was correct.

 

Again, you are being incredibly naive with HOW THE TEAM's FINANCES WORK. They picked up roughly $7 million in contracts for the second half of the season. They've since ditched $2 million in contracts. Do you really find it incredible to believe that they went out and found an alternate source of funding in order to add Peavy and Rios? Or that maybe they were REALLY keeping their fingers crossed that these guys would get us over the hump and pay for themselves by getting us into the postseason? Or that they will have to account for adding this payroll this year by adding less in the first half next year? Will you admit that any of those possibilities exist, instead of your conspiracy theories?

[chisoxt]

I don't know if this adds to the conversation, but it was interesting:

 

On B&B last week, Boers said that "his guy" with the Sox (who is rarely wrong about anything, BTW) told him that JR is pretty pissed off about how poorly the Sox have played after being told that Rios and Peavy would be enough to make the playoffs. That's what prompted the attempted sell off on Aug. 31 and the "blame me" stuff from Ozzie. I think there is a lot riding on a playoff spot for this team.

The acquisitions of three large contracts Rios, Peavy and Linebrink will strongly challenge Jerry's loyalty to Kenny in the next year or so...If things continue to unravel and we come up snake-eyes on all three of these guys, I see a Paxon-esque move wherby Kenny would be kicked 'upstais' and Rick Hahn would take over.

 

In the short term, I see a couple of sacrificial lambs regarding the coaching staff in the offseason (hitting and bullpen coaches).

[Dick Allen]

Well who wouldn't be? We are all pissed off about how poorly they have played.

 

That being said, I doubt JR is stupid enough to believe that simply because we got these two players that we were guaranteed anything. It certainly was a calculated risk that hasn't paid off thus far. However, to me, the blame shouldn't land on the guys we acquired, but on the guys we already had.

 

Additionally, my guess is they were hoping a playoff appearance would offset the expense incurred this season by adding Peavy and Rios to the payroll.

 

Unfortunately it hasn't worked out so far, and as a result, we may have to cut a bit more out of the payroll next season (for the first half, anyways), but this is how this franchise operates.

 

JR definitely would be pissed at no additional revenue from playoff games. I also think JR is probably pissed the team was so awful on that roadtrip a huge amount of season ticketholders skipped buying playoff tickets, which considering the economy etc. will probably result in a lower renewal rate and probably preclude them from raising ticket prices much, if at all, next season.

[Dick Allen]

Again, you are being incredibly naive with HOW THE TEAM's FINANCES WORK. They picked up roughly $7 million in contracts for the second half of the season. They've since ditched $2 million in contracts. Do you really find it incredible to believe that they went out and found an alternate source of funding in order to add Peavy and Rios? Or that maybe they were REALLY keeping their fingers crossed that these guys would get us over the hump and pay for themselves by getting us into the postseason? Or that they will have to account for adding this payroll this year by adding less in the first half next year? Will you admit that any of those possibilities exist, instead of your conspiracy theories?

Wouldn't the same premise work for some of the bargains available last offseason? They saved $1 million on Thome, they are paying Contreras all but the minumum which is about $65k a month.

 

There are no conspiracy theories. They just weren't being straight when they said they had no money.

[iamshack]

Wouldn't the same premise work for some of the bargains available last offseason? They saved $1 million on Thome, they are paying Contreras all but the minumum which is about $65k a month.

 

There are no conspiracy theories. They just weren't being straight when they said they had no money.

 

I don't know how obvious the pattern has to be for you to recognize what it is, especially for someone who goes on and on about being a 20 year season ticket holder. The organization does not take financial risks if they can be avoided. However, the organization will step outside of that mode of operation if it sees an impact player that can be acquired at a reduced price, whether that be in terms of cash or players. The organization will also step up the degree of risk it will assume if it sees an opportunity to make the postseason.

 

Otherwise, the organization will operate in a fiscally responsible manner.

 

I don't think KW means literally when he says they have no money that they have no money. It means things are tight and the budget is basically accounted for. If you want to interpret that as meaning there are no funds available, nor are there any funds available in the future, nor will there ever be, that is your prerogative, but that doesn't make Kenny a liar either.

Edited September 13, 2009 by iamshack

[southsider2k5]

Or Jerry being the business man that he is recognized that there was going to be a time that the prices on these players dropped a lot, because the economy was going into the dumper and he knew there were going to be franchises in trouble. So instead of going after some guys for one year fixes, he waited to see if he could find guys that could be a part of the franchise for years to come.