jphat007 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I haven't read any posts but I imagine people missed what Ozzie said in the article. He said there would be more bunting practice in Spring Training, not more bunting in games. That's not to say that there won't be more bunting in games next year, that's just not what Ozzie said in the article, as the title and first post intimates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseballNick Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 17, 2009 -> 11:42 AM) Are we suggesting the Pods (as in the guy that is hitting .303 and 2nd most likely on the team to get a "real" hit) or a generic Pods hitting close to the team average? The .303 Pods I'm leaving up there to hit in the early and mid innings and looking really long and hard before squaring him around in the 7-8-9. The .303 Pods fails to get a hit 7/10 times - meaning 70% of the time he's not going to get a "real" hit in that situation. Take a look at the game yesterday, 3 hits in 1 inning and 0 runs for our Sox. I'm not saying that happens every time, but it happens far too often with this team. I like the idea of having runners in scoring position and staying out of the rally killing double play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 We try this s*** every year in Spring Training and still nobody gets it. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Exactly. Every year there's a story from the loser teams' managers on how spring trianing will be different and we'll learn how to bunt. Never happens. Don't get all worked up. What Oz wants (and he probably won't ever get) is for a guy to be able to actually put down a bunt during the few occasions he calls for it. Stories like this are common this time of year. "Spring training will be different!" Sure, Oz. Not exactly. It'll be the same with a few more bunts maybe or some speech about how to bunt and showing of a video or two. They might waste a cuople days trying to teach these slugs how to actuallly put down a sac bunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Bunting will be to the detriment to this team. IF we bunt more often it will cost Ozzie his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Great, so the Sox will be even more unwatchable next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 He says this every year. I bet there's a thread in the archive from each year he's been manager. Ho-hum. I'd feel better if he said "we're going to get rid of players who slump and are effectively useless for 3 consecutive months ." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 17, 2009 -> 01:20 PM) I believe the real pivot point in this; some stat heads get to the extreme and believe that baseball does not need a manager making a decision, I’m a huge stat head, and I don’t believe in a manager not making decisions, I believe in a manager making the right decisions. I’m a huge Earl Weaver guy; I hate the idea of giving up outs, because if you can’t trust a player to deliver a hit, or get on base in a run-scoring situation then he probably is a pitcher, or shouldn’t be playing in the major leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 He claimed we were a changed team this year. I prefer the homeruns. We won the division in '08 with power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Seriously. A small ball white sox team in this stadium is soo dumb. We don't have to play in the metrodome anymore. Get us back to a 200 HR team and with this pitching staff i guarantee we win 95 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Just wondering why teaching how to bunt better in spring training means that the overall slugging approach is going by the wayside. Everyone is really overanalyzing what Ozzie is saying here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 17, 2009 -> 01:35 PM) I’m a huge stat head, and I don’t believe in a manager not making decisions, I believe in a manager making the right decisions. I’m a huge Earl Weaver guy; I hate the idea of giving up outs, because if you can’t trust a player to deliver a hit, or get on base in a run-scoring situation then he probably is a pitcher, or shouldn’t be playing in the major leagues. On the other hand, something people keep forgetting... even a good hitter only gets a hit 30% of the time. What you do with the other 70% is more than twice as important - so making your outs productive is important. That doesn't always mean bunting of course, but this team this year is a perfect example of not getting productive outs (and there are many possible causes for this). Just saying, this whole idea of "if they can't deliver a hit they shouldn't be playing" is ignoring one of the basic realities of baseball - that most of the time, they won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 It's not that I'm opposed or unopposed to bunting, I just like us being smart about it. I like the idea of smartball, even if it is poorly defined. If you're coming up and doing the exact same thing, formulaically, every time, it's not going to work. If Nix gets to 1b and Pods is up and everyone in the world knows he's going to put down a bunt, the odds of the guy getting thrown out at 2b are way too high for me. If Pods gets to 1b and everyone in the world knows he's off on the first pitch, he's going to get thrown out or picked off. If you bunt Pods to 2nd, take the bat out of Beckham's hands, and have JD coming up next, unless Pods can steal 3rd then we don't have the option of scoring a guy on a sac fly because JD's an automatic out. Mix it up. Instead of having Pods do a straight steal, have him bluff a move once or twice to keep the pitcher off guard then try a hit and run and he'll score when Beckham doubles. If they keep throwing over to 1b, bluff a move but then don't go. Keep them distracted. If the 1b and 3b are charging hard because they're expecting the bunt, pull the bunt back and slap the ball past them. If the 1b and 3b are playing back, then put down a bunt and make someone field it. If a very good fielding pitcher is on the mound, don't bunt. If you've got a catcher with a great throwing arm, Pods is on 1b with no outs, the guy up 3rd is smoking the ball, and it's a 1 run or tie game, then sure, bunt him over. Don't bunt him to 2nd and expect him to score from 2b when JD pops out to the 2nd baseman. How frustrated do we get when we take the bat out of Beckham's hand with the bunt to get JD up with the slump he's in? When a guy like Rios is in a slump, why don't we ever try a hit and run to open up a hole for him? Why do we only want to get the guy to 2nd base when it still takes a single or more to score him from there. Just play it smarter. If you're going to bunt, do it when it benefits us the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 “If we do that we won’t go into slumps like we did this year. We’re not going to be in a slump because someone will do something to break it up. We won’t have to wait for the big boys to wake up all season long. You learn from it, and hopefully we continue to improve.’’ -Ozzie Gullien Thats says it all right there. Its something most of us have been griping about, too much reliance an the old life and pull sluggers which sometimes dont slug for extended periods. Thats what leads to the anemic offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 QUOTE (joeynach @ Sep 17, 2009 -> 01:30 PM) “If we do that we won’t go into slumps like we did this year. We’re not going to be in a slump because someone will do something to break it up. We won’t have to wait for the big boys to wake up all season long. You learn from it, and hopefully we continue to improve.’’ -Ozzie Gullien Thats says it all right there. Its something most of us have been griping about, too much reliance an the old life and pull sluggers which sometimes dont slug for extended periods. Thats what leads to the anemic offense. Well, it was ok when they were slugging a lot and hitting 35-40 homers a year. The problem si that they aren't really sluggin at all anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I make the case that a homerun is worth like 4 bunts B) Really having a mix of players able to perform as they should whether it be hitting behind the runner to advance, going the other way for a base hit instead of swinging with all your might and more when that single is all you need, stealing, taking the extra base --- all those little things, but mixing in the big boppers makes the winning ball club. The fundamentals are what we need to see executed and I am not sure you can teach old dogs new tricks when they make it to the bigs. It starts in the minor league system. I like homeruns because our park is a homerun park, but line drives for doubles work also as long as you can execute when a runner is in scoring position. Bunts are situational just like the hit and run and stolen base. I guess I like the straight steal if you have the speed more than a bunt as you aren't conceeding an out. If you don't have people that can execute and do the little things, which really are basic baseball, then you better have a line up of home run hitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 17, 2009 -> 07:29 PM) It's not that I'm opposed or unopposed to bunting, I just like us being smart about it. I like the idea of smartball, even if it is poorly defined. If you're coming up and doing the exact same thing, formulaically, every time, it's not going to work. If Nix gets to 1b and Pods is up and everyone in the world knows he's going to put down a bunt, the odds of the guy getting thrown out at 2b are way too high for me. If Pods gets to 1b and everyone in the world knows he's off on the first pitch, he's going to get thrown out or picked off. If you bunt Pods to 2nd, take the bat out of Beckham's hands, and have JD coming up next, unless Pods can steal 3rd then we don't have the option of scoring a guy on a sac fly because JD's an automatic out. Mix it up. Instead of having Pods do a straight steal, have him bluff a move once or twice to keep the pitcher off guard then try a hit and run and he'll score when Beckham doubles. If they keep throwing over to 1b, bluff a move but then don't go. Keep them distracted. If the 1b and 3b are charging hard because they're expecting the bunt, pull the bunt back and slap the ball past them. If the 1b and 3b are playing back, then put down a bunt and make someone field it. If a very good fielding pitcher is on the mound, don't bunt. If you've got a catcher with a great throwing arm, Pods is on 1b with no outs, the guy up 3rd is smoking the ball, and it's a 1 run or tie game, then sure, bunt him over. Don't bunt him to 2nd and expect him to score from 2b when JD pops out to the 2nd baseman. How frustrated do we get when we take the bat out of Beckham's hand with the bunt to get JD up with the slump he's in? When a guy like Rios is in a slump, why don't we ever try a hit and run to open up a hole for him? Why do we only want to get the guy to 2nd base when it still takes a single or more to score him from there. Just play it smarter. If you're going to bunt, do it when it benefits us the most. Here Hear. Smart baseball and proper execution is what we need to see more of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 QUOTE (The Critic @ Sep 17, 2009 -> 03:57 PM) I like the bunting they put up come playoff time. ^this. and another bunting opinion. when it comes to fourth of july decorating, bunting>flags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 17, 2009 -> 02:29 PM) If the 1b and 3b are charging hard because they're expecting the bunt, pull the bunt back and slap the ball past them. This is one of my favorite plays in baseball. I can't even recall the Sox doing this since Cliff Politte(?) did it in 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Sep 17, 2009 -> 11:49 AM) I swear to god, some of you guys have never played the game of baseball. I don't care what some dweeb from Stanford has calculated. Sure, the new wave of stats have become a great way to further evaluate players and a great way to try to determine who are the best players in the league by factoring in stadiums, etc. However, sometimes all you need is an extra run, not 3 or 4 and while the stats may show that bunting is going to hinder run production, the way it does it is by potentially preventing the big-inning, but sometimes you just need a f***ing run, not a big inning. If the Sox got a few extra runs, we'd have seen there 1 run record swing drastically the other way and that starts with playing good fundamental baseball. There is such a thing as a productive out and the Sox are one of the worse teams I've seen in a long time at doing that. And part of fundamentals is good defense and I think we all know the Sox have sucked awfully at that all season. You find a way to improve the defense and get the club to make more productive outs as opposed to useless outs and we are talking about a 2010 team that should content for a World Series. And I'll call whomever I want a jackass. I'm one of the most behaved posters on this site and when people get too far away from the way the game was meant to be played and start thinking it really is just fantasy baseball, than I'm going to step up and speak up. Note: I'm also the biggest supporter of the hit and run possible and if the Sox get a team of guys that can handle the bat this could turn into a huge benefit. You essentially open up a massive hole every time you do a hit and run and a guy that can handle the bat well can essentially sky-rocket his batting average in that situation. Jas, There are other ways to put pressure on a defense than laying down a bunt. I don't think anyone is saying not to be aggressive or just to lay back and wait for the home run. The Rays were an exciting offense last year. They put pressure on people. But that had nothing to do with their ability to bunt. It was about speed, excellent base running and bat control. Things from the offense I would like to see addressed. Some of this is philosophy and some of this is definitely personnel. 1.) The ability to go 1st to 3rd. 2.) The ability to hit and run. 3.) Hitting to the right side to advance the runner instead of striking out. 4.) Secondary leads 5.) The ability to hit a sac fly when you get a man on third. 6.) Taking pitches, especially when you get a guy who is wild up there. 7.) Being able to make contact on 2 strikes. 8.) better prep on pitchers we never have faced. 9.) Philosophy of calm yet explosive when we get down late in the game. The pucker factor past the 6th inning is probably the thing that kills us the most in close games. Just have the thought execute my attack, and if I fail the guy behind me will pick me up. 10.) Better communication on dynamic parts of the game. H 11.) Trying to adjust from AB to AB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 This team has the greatest pucker factor of just about anyone I think. They have some serious mental/testical/asshole shrinkage after the 6th, usually. They just wilt... and you have to play the game with confidence, even when you're getting skull-drilled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Honestly, unless we manage to figure out how to get a runner in from third with less than two outs, it doesn't matter how the hell they got there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 (edited) Giving up an out to make sure the batter or next batter doesn't hit into a double play is one of the silliest things I ever read. So by intentionally giving up an out a ground out, fly out, strikeout is equivalent to that DP. Looking at the Sox totals, our slow boppers hit more home runs than DP's. In 2008, the Rays had 23 Sacrifice Hits. That was the lowest total in MLB. The Angels were 22nd in MLB in SH, the Sox were 28th. You God damn stat jackass Edited September 17, 2009 by santo=dorf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Sep 17, 2009 -> 11:40 AM) I'm all for fundamentals. Some of you stat jackasses can get ridiculous about the giving up outs part of the game. Sometimes it just makes sense and it can push things and help get the offense rolling. So Ozzie, I'm all for it!!! And I certainly hope Buddy Ball down in the minors is preaching all of the fundamentals. Fundamentals and giving away out for free are totally different. Fundamentals in the AL are going 1st to 3rd on singles, getting the runner home from 3rd with one out, only stealing when there is a very high chance of success, playing sound defense. Giving away outs for free is fundamentally stupid in our league except in special situations, no matter how much some people think it's helpful. And I played baseball for a long team, before you call me a "jackass" for saying this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Fundamentals should also extend to the coaching staff as well. Like not sending slow, older players to home plate when the OF has the ball before the runner touch 3rd. Also a manager not making bullpen decisions exclusively on if the pitcher matches the batter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Sep 17, 2009 -> 11:49 AM) And I'll call whomever I want a jackass. I'm one of the most behaved posters on this site and when people get too far away from the way the game was meant to be played and start thinking it really is just fantasy baseball, than I'm going to step up and speak up. Yes, how dare people have an opinion different than your own. Those jackasses. Who do they think they are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.