"More bunting"

[whitesoxfan101]

And of all the things to call posters a jackass for, not believing in bunting? Bunting might be the dumbest, most jackass tactic still consistently used in baseball.

[greg775]

I don't think you can say we should never bunt.

Occasionally, like in an extra inning game when you are the home team and the guy gets a lead off hit, bunting is in order.

Or usually in order.

I mean you get him to second and whack a single. But we more often than not can't put down a f***ing bunt.

How can you argue that a bunt isn't called for in extra innings sometimes??

[whitesoxfan101]

I don't think you can say we should never bunt.

Occasionally, like in an extra inning game when you are the home team and the guy gets a lead off hit, bunting is in order.

Or usually in order.

I mean you get him to second and whack a single. But we more often than not can't put down a f***ing bunt.

How can you argue that a bunt isn't called for in extra innings sometimes??

 

Oh there are very special occasions where a bunt is needed. But those are rare, and the idea of "more bunting" is not wise.

[Felix]

I don't think you can say we should never bunt.

Occasionally, like in an extra inning game when you are the home team and the guy gets a lead off hit, bunting is in order.

Or usually in order.

I mean you get him to second and whack a single. But we more often than not can't put down a f***ing bunt.

How can you argue that a bunt isn't called for in extra innings sometimes??

I'm as anti-bunt as the next person, but there are certain situations where a bunt would be the smart play. Unfortunately for Ozzie (and other baseball purists), those situations are all in late innings where getting one run is more important than starting a big rally. I have no issue with bunting in these situations (unless we're bunting with one of our better hitters).

 

However when we're bunting with our #2 hitter in the 5th inning then I'm going to be pissed off. It's one thing to give away outs with one of your worst hitters, but to give outs away in front of the meat of the order is a silly thought.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Felix

[greg775]

I don't think we're going to have to worry about Ozzie bunting and playing NL ball in the early innings. I seem to recall us messing up some bunts in late inning situations which probably necessitated his outburst.

 

I'm more interested in tonight's outburst on Cowley's twitter.

Who is he going to bench if he said the guys have quit on him and changes are coming??

Bobby was the key goat tonight, so he has to be one of them, but judging from his look in the dugout when Ichiro got his hit ... I don't know if he's quit. He just got hit.

That would leave Dye, Rios, Liney (he also might have just got hit rather than quitting), maybe Lexi?

AJP went 0-6 but he's been great.

 

 

Quote of the year: "They horse(bleep)? Yes, they are.” (Oz on his team after tonight's game. “If they give up on me, I give up on them.’’

Edited September 18, 2009 by greg775

[Balta1701]

Who is he going to bench if he said the guys have quit on him and changes are coming??

I dunno, but I'm sure it means more playing time for Wise.

[ThunderBolt]

We're a home-run hitting team in a home-run loving ballpark. Are job should be to hit the crap out of the ball, get on-base, and play well in the field. We should not be giving away outs to advance runners, who can be driven in by actual productive hits. Honestly, i salivate whenever i see someone drop down a bunt against us. It's an easy out.

[NorthSideSox72]

We're a home-run hitting team in a home-run loving ballpark. Are job should be to hit the crap out of the ball, get on-base, and play well in the field. We should not be giving away outs to advance runners, who can be driven in by actual productive hits. Honestly, i salivate whenever i see someone drop down a bunt against us. It's an easy out.

And the home run hitting teal will be a better team if they can ALSO, occasionally, play small ball. 2005's team showed that - they won mostly on pitching, defense and home runs, but they were that much better because every so often, they could also bunt, or steal a base, or hit and run, etc. Having a team with players who can go either way, depending on the situation, is the ideal.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

We're a home-run hitting team in a home-run loving ballpark. Are job should be to hit the crap out of the ball, get on-base, and play well in the field. We should not be giving away outs to advance runners, who can be driven in by actual productive hits. Honestly, i salivate whenever i see someone drop down a bunt against us. It's an easy out.

 

Carlos Gomez/Carl Crawford/Ichiro Suzuki says hi

[ThunderBolt]

Carlos Gomez/Carl Crawford/Ichiro Suzuki says hi

Two of the guys are premier athletes who get a ton of hits, get on base, and hit a lot of bombs. The other one sucks against everyone, but us. Not the best examples of the joy of bunting, Just the inadequacy of the White Sox defense.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Thunderbolt

[Felix]

Carlos Gomez/Carl Crawford/Ichiro Suzuki says hi

Carl Crawford hasn't had a bunt hit since 2006 and has only had 8 attempts in the last 3 seasons (he also wasn't particularly good at it when he was doing it a lot, owns a career rate of 26.2%). Carlos Gomez has also been a lot less successful with bunting this season (BUH% 25%, compared to 45.5% last year and 46.2% the year before).

 

As for Ichiro, he doesn't attempt bunt hits as much as your typical speedster (averaged 12+ per season for his career compared to 66 from Gomez in 2008 and 20 in limited playing time this season) and he does get hits on bunts at a fairly high rate because, well, he's Ichiro. I'm pretty sure Ichiro can do whatever the hell he wants on a baseball diamond and make it look good and effortless at the same time.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Felix

[Kyyle23]

Bunting accomplishes plenty when used properly. It is far from an easy out like Thunderbolt suggests, and although our team spectacularly fails at bunting, there are teams that can use it to their advantage and do so often(Angels)

[ThunderBolt]

Bunting accomplishes plenty when used properly. It is far from an easy out like Thunderbolt suggests, and although our team spectacularly fails at bunting, there are teams that can use it to their advantage and do so often(Angels)

From Wikipedia:

In baseball, a sacrifice bunt (also called a sacrifice hit) is the act of deliberately bunting the ball in a manner that allows a runner on base to advance to another base. The batter is almost always sacrificed (and to a certain degree that is the intent of the hitter) but sometimes reaches base due to an error or fielder's choice. Sometimes the batter may safely reach base by simply outrunning the throw to first; this is not scored as a sacrifice bunt but rather a single. The Bunt makes the pitcher's job easier, it doesn't stirke fear in to anyone. The Angels are so damn good, becasue they hit .300, rock bombs, and play defense behind an average pitching staff.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Thunderbolt

[Kyyle23]

From Wikipedia:

In baseball, a sacrifice bunt (also called a sacrifice hit) is the act of deliberately bunting the ball in a manner that allows a runner on base to advance to another base. The batter is almost always sacrificed (and to a certain degree that is the intent of the hitter) but sometimes reaches base due to an error or fielder's choice. Sometimes the batter may safely reach base by simply outrunning the throw to first; this is not scored as a sacrifice bunt but rather a single. The Bunt makes the pitcher's job easier, it doesn't stirke fear in to anyone. The Angels are so damn good, becasue they hit .300, rock bombs, and play defense behind an average pitching staff.

 

 

Thanks for the definition, I didnt know what a bunt was until now

[almagest]

Bunting accomplishes plenty when used properly. It is far from an easy out like Thunderbolt suggests, and although our team spectacularly fails at bunting, there are teams that can use it to their advantage and do so often(Angels)

No, they don't:

In 2008, the Rays had 23 Sacrifice Hits. That was the lowest total in MLB. The Angels were 22nd in MLB in SH, the Sox were 28th.

[Kyyle23]

Ok, you guys are right. The bunt is worthless and never should be used

[almagest]

Ok, you guys are right. The bunt is worthless and never should be used

It's useful, but so much with a power-hitting team in a small ballpark with players who can't score from second on a single and players who can barely get the ball out of the infield 2 or 3 months a year. All bunting would do with our current roster is increase the number of RISP we leave on base.

[BaseballNick]

The Bunt makes the pitcher's job easier, it doesn't stirke fear in to anyone.

 

It is beyond me that you still cannot see the value of a bunt. You're a bright person who makes valuable contributions to this site, but in no way can I agree with you here. The bunt is especially valuable to a team like the White Sox who are slow and prone to hitting into double plays that negate so many potential scoring chances. I am especially a fan of the bunt when you advance a runner to 3rd with less than 2 outs because a pitcher then has to be extra careful with with any low breaking pitch - so I really don't see how that "makes the pitcher's job easier." It takes away some of a pitcher's arsenal to what should be an RBI threat coming to hit.

[ThunderBolt]

It is beyond me that you still cannot see the value of a bunt. You're a bright person who makes valuable contributions to this site, but in no way can I agree with you here. The bunt is especially valuable to a team like the White Sox who are slow and prone to hitting into double plays that negate so many potential scoring chances. I am especially a fan of the bunt when you advance a runner to 3rd with less than 2 outs because a pitcher then has to be extra careful with with any low breaking pitch - so I really don't see how that "makes the pitcher's job easier." It takes away some of a pitcher's arsenal to what should be an RBI threat coming to hit.

I don't see the math in giving away one out, to avoid two. There's very little net game. Instead, the focal point for all offensive contributors need to be on working the count and looking to drive the ball. I'm fine with the sacrifice fly, because it implies that conscious offensive effort was made. The bunt seems like a cop out.

[Texsox]

It is impossible to know how the absence or frequency of bunts affects swinging away. If a team knows your tendency is not to bunt, they have an easier time defending than if you mix up bunts. So perhaps the reason that one strategy is successful relies, in part, and implementing the other. Co-dependency is a difficult relationship to study.

[kapkomet]

Bunts are so grinderesque. I simply cannot understand why statheads fail to see the grinder factor.

 

Seriously, it's called mixing it up. There are aspects of it that cannot be measured.

 

 

[kitekrazy]

Some players bunt to get on base.

[kitekrazy]

Bunts are so grinderesque. I simply cannot understand why statheads fail to see the grinder factor.

 

Seriously, it's called mixing it up. There are aspects of it that cannot be measured.

 

 

It's always been a part of baseball. Since we are Sox fans we can't grasp traditional baseball since we haven't seen it in years. We love our "station to station" baseball.

[ThunderBolt]

It's always been a part of baseball. Since we are Sox fans we can't grasp traditional baseball since we haven't seen it in years. We love our "station to station" baseball.

That station to station thing sure seems to win us a lot of games.

[kitekrazy]

That station to station thing sure seems to win us a lot of games.

 

Lose a lot of them that way too.