Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (Friend of Nordhagen @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 09:46 PM) Same offensive shortcomings, year after year, and the players often change. A lot is Williams's fault for finding guys uniquely qualified to be fundamentally lousy, no question. But, please consider: 1) These players do not hit situationally and haven't for years. It looks like they try; they don't know how. Someone, like the hitting coach, should provide some assistance here. 2) These players are flabbergasted by pitchers they haven't seen before. I sorta think the hitting coach ought to be of some assistance on that one. 3) These players cannot hit left-handed pitchers with changeups. Why is this always a team-wide phenomenon? Perhaps a coaching approach might help there, too. If the answer on each of these is no, then I am not sure what a hitting coach is supposed to do, nor why they would ever, under any circumstance, be held accountable. I think it's otherwise. We could debate this subject forever. And I really don't feel like it. Hey, if there's somebody out there that's going to somehow transform these guys into better hitters (and for those that want Walker fired. I've never heard one person, not one, come up with a potential replacement that could do a better job), then go for it. Other than the 2005 Indians, I can't think of a single situation in which a hitting coach was replaced and the offense from that point caught fire. If anybody else can feel free to throw it out there. I just think this is a classic case of not being able to fire or trade a bunch of hitters. So may as well can the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) Walker should flip flop jobs with somebody in the organization. Let him keep a job somewhere, but make a change at hitting coach for change's sake. Is Buddy Bell a candidate? I really don't think it'll matter much but it's time for change for change sake. The new hitting coach will be the scapegoat if we suck at the plate again. But these cliches in baseball must be addressed from time to time and with the Sox, it's time. I love Oz, but nobody in baseball has a lifetime contract. We have a lot of "name" position players and pitchers and on paper shouldn't be this bad. I prefer to blame the players but it's his team. If the team sucks again next year, I'd suspect the Oz era may be in jeopardy. I guess the fans may keep coming out. I'd think some ticket holders might be reconsidering unless they just love going out to the Cell each and every summer. So many of these home games have been hitting disasters. I would think some of these fans would pass on a repeat of these type games next year. Edited September 22, 2009 by greg775 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nastymasty21 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 this team is god awful offensively. I dont know what kenny can do besides the obvious of cutting loose dye. I personally think beckham and a healthy quentin are the only guys that should be brought back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 10:02 PM) Walker should flip flop jobs with somebody in the organization. Let him keep a job somewhere, but make a change at hitting coach for change's sake. Is Buddy Bell a candidate? I really don't think it'll matter much but it's time for change for change sake. The new hitting coach will be the scapegoat if we suck at the plate again. But these cliches in baseball must be addressed from time to time and with the Sox, it's time. I love Oz, but nobody in baseball has a lifetime contract. We have a lot of "name" position players and pitchers and on paper shouldn't be this bad. I prefer to blame the players but it's his team. If the team sucks again next year, I'd suspect the Oz era may be in jeopardy. I guess the fans may keep coming out. I'd think some ticket holders might be reconsidering unless they just love going out to the Cell each and every summer. So many of these home games have been hitting disasters. I would think some of these fans would pass on a repeat of these type games next year. Ozzie and KW are here until they decide to quit. JR for better or worse is one of the most loyal owners in pro sports. Jerry Krause, one of the worst GMs in NBA history, would still be with the Bulls had he not stepped aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Ozzie and KW are here until they decide to quit. JR for better or worse is one of the most loyal owners in pro sports. Jerry Krause, one of the worst GMs in NBA history, would still be with the Bulls had he not stepped aside. Then I wish Jerry would speak up more and blast the players or something and remind everybody of Oz's and KW's excellence. It doesn't hurt to remind the lumbering players that the boss fully supports the top two guns. I don't want KW or Oz to leave ever. I'm just saying at some point the guys in charge are the ones who should be booed. Oz and KW should be moderately ashamed at some of these performances the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 09:44 PM) Things that you can probably pin on walker: 1. These terrifically bad games against guys we haven't seen before. 2. Fields's lack of development. His swing needed improvement and it just never showed. 3. Rios. The guy needs some major mechanical work right now. That's a hitting coach's job. 4. JD. I still don't know what's wrong with him, I think it has to be injury related, but if it's not, then the hitting coach needs to kick his ass. 5. Some of the really long slumps our guys got in to. Ramirez to start the season, Getz in June. Those really hampered us too. Josh Fields had problems long before he got to Chicago. I know I felt the strikeout numbers would kill him at the major league level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 If Dan Hudson can work on his control, he's going to be a dominant pitcher in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 10:14 PM) Then I wish Jerry would speak up more and blast the players or something and remind everybody of Oz's and KW's excellence. It doesn't hurt to remind the lumbering players that the boss fully supports the top two guns. I don't want KW or Oz to leave ever. I'm just saying at some point the guys in charge are the ones who should be booed. Oz and KW should be moderately ashamed at some of these performances the second half. I know you live in Kansas, so you don't get a chance to read the Chicago papers. But I can't think of a manager or GM in baseball that takes more responsibility for the performance (Ozzie) and the product (KW) of the the team than those two. Ozzie has repeatedly said things like "I'm the manager. If we don't get it done, I should be fired" and KW has said countless times "The buck stops at my desk." Those two guys don't hide behind a thing when the team underachieves. Jerry doesn't have to say a thing. Edited September 22, 2009 by Jordan4life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 10:21 PM) Josh Fields had problems long before he got to Chicago. I know I felt the strikeout numbers would kill him at the major league level. Guys like Fields and Brian Anderson are beyond help. If either becomes even serviceable at the ML level with another organization I'll demand that a mod bans me from this site for a year. I'm not kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I think like Stoney said if he can learn to control a third pitch like his slider, Hudson could be damn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 11:27 PM) I think like Stoney said if he can learn to control a third pitch like his slider, Hudson could be damn good. I love how when he misses, he misses low with his breaking stuff. That's a great sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 But I can't think of a manager or GM in baseball that takes more responsibility for the performance (Ozzie) and the product (KW) of the the team than those two. Ozzie has repeatedly said things like "I'm the manager. If we don't get it done, I should be fired" and KW has said countless times "The buck stops at my desk." Those two guys don't hide behind a thing when the team underachieves. Jerry doesn't have to say a thing. Good point and reminder to me. I do read those quotes online and like the fact they take responsibility. But when the team makes so many gaffes I'd think Jerry might once in a blue moon remind the media he loves those two in charge and the players better get it together. Then again, the modern ballplayer probably doesn't care if the owner is pissed at them. They can go get a job with another team if they are veterans with track records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 10:50 PM) Then again, the modern ballplayer probably doesn't care if the owner is pissed at them. They can go get a job with another team if they are veterans with track records. They can also play like s*** or even refuse to play and still collect their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 03:35 AM) Yet Walker is supposed to be the problem. Which is it? There needs to be a new voice and viewpoint with these hitters. Walker is like Ron Turner to the Bears. I don't think people will realize just how bad they were at their job until we see how even a serviceable coach could do with the talent on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 03:40 AM) Can we really blame Walker for CQ's struggles (which are injury related) Quentin's approach at the plate this season has been a joke basically since opening day. His pull approach is as bad as I've ever seen, and he has no prayer on offspeed pitches this year. Sure looks like even if Walker is trying to work with him, it's not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 It's true that Quentin looks like a spastic up there. If that's how he plans on battng in the future God help him and us fans. If Dye gets two strikes on him ... he's gone. He'll wave at anything in the dirt. I don't know if Walk could help them, but I hope he at least addressed both matters in conversation with them. Both are indeed lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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