joeynach Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 While their are numerous factors for our teams relative collapse in the 2nd half (below .500) my question is does this tell the tale. .171/.269/.264 5 Hr, 19 RBI, 42K, 27 BB, 3 2B Yes ladies and gentleman that is your #3 hitter and middle of the order run producer Jermaine Dye's post ASG numbers. Do you think this dismal production is the greatest contributor to our 2nd half? If not then what; Buehrle post Perfect Game, Bullpen woes?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I think Dye's dropoff might be the #1 reason with Buehrle's mediocre second half behind that. The bullpen's been bad as well. I don't know, it's probably a combination of the three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 05:16 PM) I think Dye's dropoff might be the #1 reason with Buehrle's mediocre second half behind that. The bullpen's been bad as well. I don't know, it's probably a combination of the three. Throw Rios suckage in there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 07:25 PM) Throw Rios suckage in there too. Aside from the dropped ball in CF, Rios helps us in the field. Even when he's not hitting he can still save runs. Dye OTOH doesn't help at all when he's not hitting. CQ's offensive struggles mean a lot more than Rios' struggles, by FAR. I don't understand why we would acquire a guy who was hitting around .260 or whatever and then expect him to be our offensive savior. Rios is here for defense now and everything else in the future. If anything, Ozzie hasn't been playing Rios enough. Same with Kotsay. When you aren't scoring runs the last thing you're supposed to do is weaken your defense. That's Baseball 101 and Ozzie's still sleeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Rowland Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 07:16 PM) I think Dye's dropoff might be the #1 reason with Buehrle's mediocre second half behind that. The bullpen's been bad as well. I don't know, it's probably a combination of the three. Don't forget the defense. It appears to have been a team effort. CQ being out and then just off also did not help. A reversal in any one of these variable could have put them over the top in the division, but would not have been enough to go much further. I think a lot of offseason work for the left side of the infield, coupled with Rios in CF, a fresh TCQ at one of the corner spots and someone other than JD in the remaining slot will help the D considerably. Plus, if Buehrle decides to get himself back into playing shape with some offseason conditioning and core strengthening, we should be in good shape assuming KW can do some maintenance on the bullpen and one corner OF spot. There is a lot to improve but there is the ability to improve. We are not talking Andy Gonzalez & Co. here. Edited September 22, 2009 by Pants Rowland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonxctf Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Post All Star Break Numbers Dye .171 Konerko .255 Quentin .234 Nix .236 Rios .155 with Sox Wise .225 Thome .233 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Easily the bullpen. This is the second year in a row we've seen it go to s*** in the second half after a stellar first half. We barely got by last year. Not so fortunate this year. The bullpen is rapidly becoming the most important aspect of a contending team. Ask Tampa what's the #1 reason between them getting to the World Series last year and missing the playoffs all together this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Contreras + Colon = 8-19 in 33 starts. That's a full season's worth of starts right there. And I know wins aren't the best stat for rating pitchers, but I'd say that in this case those win-loss numbers are much more indicative of their performances than their ERAs and WHIPs this season. If we swap all that out with a healthy Peavy we're going to be talking about at least 6 more wins, which would put us right in the thick of it as it stands now. Now take a healthy Freddy and replace everybody else and we're talking about a division-winning ballclub just off a legit 5-man starting staff. Add the trickle-down effect where the bullpen sees less work and I think we'd have seen some better performances there as well. The 4th and 5th starters this year have really blown prior to Freddy and Peavy showing up and are a huge reason for where we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Rowland Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 07:53 PM) Contreras + Colon = 8-19 in 33 starts. That's a full season's worth of starts right there. And I know wins aren't the best stat for rating pitchers, but I'd say that in this case those win-loss numbers are much more indicative of their performances than their ERAs and WHIPs this season. If we swap all that out with a healthy Peavy we're going to be talking about at least 6 more wins, which would put us right in the thick of it as it stands now. Now take a healthy Freddy and replace everybody else and we're talking about a division-winning ballclub just off a legit 5-man starting staff. Add the trickle-down effect where the bullpen sees less work and I think we'd have seen some better performances there as well. The 4th and 5th starters this year have really blown prior to Freddy and Peavy showing up and are a huge reason for where we are. Funny you mention that, because I think you can make a similar argument with respect to all the extra outs needed due to poor defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prochisox Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) The offense was the main problem. The Bullpen knew they werent gonna score in many of the second half games and that put extra pressure on them. The Bullpen was bad at one point but the offense sucked horribly. And the defense was a big part of it too. Edited September 22, 2009 by GO CHI SOX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpd9189 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 CQ has been a major bust this year. I think this gets overlooked alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 01:16 AM) I think Dye's dropoff might be the #1 reason with Buehrle's mediocre second half behind that. The bullpen's been bad as well. I don't know, it's probably a combination of the three. It's a team effort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 08:41 PM) CQ has been a major bust this year. I think this gets overlooked alot. Not surprising considering he was coming off a major wrist injury and had the plantar fasicatas or however the hell you spell it crap to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YonderLaroche Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 #1 CQ/Dye/Linebrink #2 Rest of bullpen #3 Buehrle #4 Ozzie's weird lineups and mismanagement of bullpen #5 Defense #6 Rest of offense in clutch situations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Buehrle & Danks have pitched more good games than bad in second half yet wins are a minimum. A few runs would have helped and kept the arson squad out of games. Its clearly the (Lack of) offense #1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 uh, Buehrle? am I missing something? 4.08 ERA in the second half, about 5 bad starts. Were 5 games really going to make that big of a difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 08:38 PM) Easily the bullpen. This is the second year in a row we've seen it go to s*** in the second half after a stellar first half. We barely got by last year. Not so fortunate this year. The bullpen is rapidly becoming the most important aspect of a contending team. Ask Tampa what's the #1 reason between them getting to the World Series last year and missing the playoffs all together this year. Do you think the 1st half vs. 2nd half splits in the pen are a result of aging arms wearing down. We rely a lot on Linebrink and Dotel, at least in 2008 and Ozzie carried that trend over into 2009. With both those guys have a ton of innings on their amrs is it to our suprise they were both night and day when you compare their performance in the first half to the second. They are showing the signs of age, am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 If JD were putting up MVP type numbers since the AS break, would we be in 1st place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 1.) The offense, led by Dye's s***tiness and total inability to get key hits. I am amazed at how many balls in the dirt a proven big leaguer like Jermaine flails at. It's unbelievable how bad he's gotten. Dye really should be embarrassed. Haven't read any stories examining his failure and why he can't get it turned around this time. Extra BP? No extra BP? That's No. 1. And Rios shouldn't get a free pass just cause he's good on defense. My god, if you want defense, Anderson could patrol center and hit .155. Yes Rios has a track record,Brian doesn't blah blah blah. Brian also made pennies compared to Rios' zillions. 2.) The Bullpen. The bullpen has sucked. 3.) The defense. I'm tempted to make this No. 1. You have to have better defense. 4.) Key blunders in games that mattered. Pods' getting picked off; very dumb calls by the 3B coach, just very stupid gaffes that hurt the team. It's been said many times on here what a dumb team we are. 5.) Station to station baseball. In the past the homers have been awesome. This year it seems to me we've hit into more DPs rather than blasts over the fence and off the wall. Like fathom said, maybe this team just isn't this good, with only a couple players overachieving. WAIT TIL NEXT YEAR! (maybe) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (joeynach @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 09:59 PM) Do you think the 1st half vs. 2nd half splits in the pen are a result of aging arms wearing down. We rely a lot on Linebrink and Dotel, at least in 2008 and Ozzie carried that trend over into 2009. With both those guys have a ton of innings on their amrs is it to our suprise they were both night and day when you compare their performance in the first half to the second. They are showing the signs of age, am I wrong? That's a fine point. Could very well be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 When any player's performance drops tremendously I start to suspect roids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 At this point we are so f***ing bad, I'm not even sure if we should be looking forward to 2010, UNLESS there will be a major overhaul. Which doesn't seem so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyuen Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (tommy @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 10:27 PM) At this point we are so f***ing bad, I'm not even sure if we should be looking forward to 2010, UNLESS there will be a major overhaul. Which doesn't seem so. I agree with this. The offense is horrible and its not going to be any better next year without a major overhaul. However 7 of these starters are back with only RF and DH to fill. Please someone tell me how we are going to win the division with such an awful lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) They had flashes of playing some great baseball. The potential was definitely there. Kenny saw it too and tried to help. NY came in red hot and the Sox cooled them off. But a common theme the last few years, including 05, was a real drop off in performance from August onward. I have no idea why. But right now, this is the worst team in baseball. We'd get beat by Belize if a game could be arranged. Edited September 22, 2009 by The Ginger Kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 08:09 PM) If JD were putting up MVP type numbers since the AS break, would we be in 1st place? no. but it could've helped. When your 2nd best player is a rookie hitting .266/12/54, then you know you're in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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