Is this the #1 Reason for our 2nd half debacle

[witesoxfan]

That's a fine point. Could very well be.

 

Look at Scott Linebrink's splits from the first half and second half of the season over the past 4-5 years. It's incredible how predictable he is.

 

When any player's performance drops tremendously I start to suspect roids.

 

That's pretty naive of you.

[greg775]

But a common theme the last few years, including 05, was a real drop off in performance from August onward. I have no idea why. But right now, this is the worst team in baseball. We'd get beat by Belize if a game could be arranged.

 

LOL at Belize. But true.

In a perfect world, we'd have Granderson on our team (I realize he has had a bad on base percentage year) as well as Bartlett.

We could have Gordo at third, Bartlett at short, Lexi at second and Paulie at first. Wow.

Grandy would be the cure to our leadoff woes forever.

My point is we still need a couple major upgrades in our lineup.

I truly think Lexi should move to second and we need a new ss.

We need another productive outfielder. I'd prefer to see Rios and Jermaine gone. Bring back Thome to DH.

We need a productive backup catcher. We really do.

Can't we rush Danks and acquire a Grandy-type outfielder?? Make it happen. This is Chicago!

 

 

[The Ginger Kid]

LOL at Belize. But true.

In a perfect world, we'd have Granderson on our team (I realize he has had a bad on base percentage year) as well as Bartlett.

We could have Gordo at third, Bartlett at short, Lexi at second and Paulie at first. Wow.

Grandy would be the cure to our leadoff woes forever.

My point is we still need a couple major upgrades in our lineup.

I truly think Lexi should move to second and we need a new ss.

We need another productive outfielder. I'd prefer to see Rios and Jermaine gone. Bring back Thome to DH.

We need a productive backup catcher. We really do.

Can't we rush Danks and acquire a Grandy-type outfielder?? Make it happen. This is Chicago!

Danks and Mitchell. It's going to be a beautiful thing with Gordo in there, too. Might take a couple of more years, but it will be worth it.

[joeynach]

When any player's performance drops tremendously I start to suspect roids.

 

With an older slugger I suspect age.

[joeynach]

I agree with this. The offense is horrible and its not going to be any better next year without a major overhaul. However 7 of these starters are back with only RF and DH to fill. Please someone tell me how we are going to win the division with such an awful lineup.

 

Somehow the tigers got better from 2008 to 2009 and they really didnt add or overhaul anything in their lineup.

 

[joeynach]

no. but it could've helped.

 

When your 2nd best player is a rookie hitting .266/12/54, then you know you're in trouble.

 

That should be the quote of the month and/or emailed to KW immediately.

[son of a rude]

Somehow the tigers got better from 2008 to 2009 and they really didnt add or overhaul anything in their lineup.

Edwin Jackson and Rick Porcello (was pissed that we took Poreda over him, but I guess it turned out well in the long run) mainly.

[joeynach]

Look at Scott Linebrink's splits from the first half and second half of the season over the past 4-5 years. It's incredible how predictable he is.

 

OMG its sick how correct you are. Beware these stats are ridiculously pathetic for a major league veteran.

 

Scott Linebrink 2009 Pre All Star: 1.93 ERA, 1.29 WHIP, .242 BA, 12BB, 32K

Scott Linebrink 2009 Post All Star: 7.84 ERA, 2.18 WHIP, .370 BA, 11BB, 21K

 

Scott Linebrink 2008 Pre All Star: 2.37 ERA, 0.92 WHIP, .207 BA, 6 BB, 32K

Scott Linebrink 2008 Post All Star: 9.72 ERA, 1.80 WHIP, .343 BA, 3 BB, 8K

 

Scott Linebrink 2007 Pre All Star: 2.52 ERA, 1.09 WHIP, .219 BA, 11BB, 22K

Scott Linebrink 2007 Post All Star: 5.23 ERA, 1.61 WHIP, .293 BA, 14 BB, 28K

 

His splits have gotton worse over the years. I cant actually believe he was ever regarded as a solid setup man with that kind of inconsistency. This proves he can never be counted on in the 2nd half of the year, he will never help you make a pennant run, he will most likely destroy it. The only explanation I can really come up with is that he physically hits a break wall after about 40 IP. Not sure if his stuff physically gets worse, loses velocity, develops arm fatigue, etc. Its really mind boggling.

[SoxAce]

Edwin Jackson and Rick Porcello (was pissed that we took Poreda over him, but I guess it turned out well in the long run) mainly.

 

Not to mention playing in one of the worst divisions in baseball against other mediocre to bad teams helps also. Crazy to think only 86-88 wins might be enough to win this division.. if that.

[T R U]

If JD were putting up MVP type numbers since the AS break, would we be in 1st place?

 

Yes.

 

JD is my main reason why this season has been lost. If JD were still putting up MVP numbers in the middle of our order I think it makes big enough changes to put us in first or at least right there.

 

We have a 4.16 team ERA Post All Star break even with Linebrink being beyond horrible. Our offensive post all star numbers aren't too bad either with AJP, Pods, Kotsay, Beckham, Ramirez, Getz, and even Konerko (.835 OPS) helping out.

 

Dye with MVP numbers most certainly changes this teams 2nd half enough to put us there. He isnt just slumping, he has dissapeared completely and its killed us.

Edited September 22, 2009 by T R U

[DBAHO]

Yes.

 

JD is my main reason why this season has been lost. If JD were still putting up MVP numbers in the middle of our order I think it makes big enough changes to put us in first or at least right there.

 

We have a 4.16 team ERA Post All Star break even with Linebrink being beyond horrible. Our offensive post all star numbers aren't too bad either with AJP, Pods, Kotsay, Beckham, Ramirez, Getz, and even Konerko (.835 OPS) helping out.

 

Dye with MVP numbers most certainly changes this teams 2nd half enough to put us there. He isnt just slumping, he has dissapeared completely and its killed us.

Yeah I would probably agree with that.

 

CQ's had a down year, but I think most of us didn't expect him to put up 2008 numbers again for us.

 

Rios has been a major disappointment so far, although I wasn't a big fan of the deal and didn't think he would be able to turn it around offensively, at least not straight away.

 

Dye's been the "glue" of the offense over the past 5-6 seasons. You always expected good consistent production out of him, and for the 2nd half of this season, usually the time when he heats up and really producing, it's been the exact opposite.

 

He produces another .280/30HR season, the White Sox are probably still just in this AL Central race.

[Harry Chappas]

I give all of the pitchers on this team a pass....why you ask......every single inning of just about every game is stressful. There is a chance that they will pitch and need to be ready every night. I know they are professionals and this is their job but it is the reasoning I give for their performance.

 

The hitting on this team is beyond bad. There are certain players having nice years but over all they are terrible.

 

When does the light shine on Guillen??????

 

This team was ahead of the Twins at the end of the day on September 12th. That was a week ago Saturday. I truly believe this team gave up and Guillen did nothing about it. The thing I always gave him credit for was getting the most out of his teams this year I do not think he could get less out of it.

 

Just about everyone gave up on this team after the road trip from hell and in all actuality they were still right in it. Somehow the Twins did not give up.

 

I am not as certain as I used to be that 2010 is going to be all that great.

 

This division is possibly one of the worst in recent memory.

[ThunderBolt]

Somehow the tigers got better from 2008 to 2009 and they really didnt add or overhaul anything in their lineup.

They tried the Rays model. Injected youth, defense, and remade their bullpen. They weren't great at it, but it clearly made them better.

[elgonzo4sox]

OMG its sick how correct you are. Beware these stats are ridiculously pathetic for a major league veteran.

 

Scott Linebrink 2009 Pre All Star: 1.93 ERA, 1.29 WHIP, .242 BA, 12BB, 32K

Scott Linebrink 2009 Post All Star: 7.84 ERA, 2.18 WHIP, .370 BA, 11BB, 21K

 

Scott Linebrink 2008 Pre All Star: 2.37 ERA, 0.92 WHIP, .207 BA, 6 BB, 32K

Scott Linebrink 2008 Post All Star: 9.72 ERA, 1.80 WHIP, .343 BA, 3 BB, 8K

 

Scott Linebrink 2007 Pre All Star: 2.52 ERA, 1.09 WHIP, .219 BA, 11BB, 22K

Scott Linebrink 2007 Post All Star: 5.23 ERA, 1.61 WHIP, .293 BA, 14 BB, 28K

 

His splits have gotton worse over the years. I cant actually believe he was ever regarded as a solid setup man with that kind of inconsistency. This proves he can never be counted on in the 2nd half of the year, he will never help you make a pennant run, he will most likely destroy it. The only explanation I can really come up with is that he physically hits a break wall after about 40 IP. Not sure if his stuff physically gets worse, loses velocity, develops arm fatigue, etc. Its really mind boggling.

 

So we keep Linebrink for 2010, and trade him midyear to a team that doesn't know these stats ;-)

 

 

[Baines3]

Dye's slump is probaby the #1 reason we fell apart in the second half.

[greg775]

If JD were putting up MVP type numbers since the AS break, would we be in 1st place?

 

Could you say the same for CQ? Oh, he has the injury excuse, I forgot.

If Jimmy was having an MVP year we wouldn't have shipped hiim. Couldn't Jimmy have had MVP numbers?

You can't just blame Dye. There's plenty of double play blame to go around. Plus the bullpen has been absolutely horrrendous.

We can't win a series from anybody right now and it's not just JD's fault. He's probably the No. 1 guy to blame but what if we picked up Rios and he went crazy at the plate? What if Gordon continued his sizz and just kept blasting the s*** out of the ball? What if Lexi just went nuts and kept getting big hit after big hit?

 

Dye is a big time goat, but so is the defense, the bullpen, the baserunning, etc.

[joeynach]

They tried the Rays model. Injected youth, defense, and remade their bullpen. They weren't great at it, but it clearly made them better.

 

I would love to see the sox do the same thing. Bring in more youth and defense, and please get rid of Tony Pena and Randy Williams, please dont let them be the future core of the bullpen, they remind me of the 2007 clown car of no names.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Funny you mention that, because I think you can make a similar argument with respect to all the extra outs needed due to poor defense.

Yeah our defense has been atrocious too. It's f***ed up how we can send out a club so solid on paper and then watch them play like the Pirates.

[LVSoxFan]

You cannot put the 2009 2nd half all on Dye's shoulders. This team has been under-achieving from the start. And let's not forget that horrible, horrible start, which made it look like we were going to have another 2007 again.

 

The thing that will stand out to me most this season is the absolute absence of any kind of significant win streak. What's the longest we've had? Four? As Stone said, every team will at least go on one tear during a season; good teams will do two or three. But we just never did that this season, for whatever reason.

 

It was somewhat like 2007 in that it was pick-your-poison: when the pitching was there the bats went silent (ask Freddy about Sunday); went the bats were there the pitching tanked; when the pitching and hitting were there the defense would blow it; and that's when the bullpen wasn't blowing games.

 

That said, while it's a disappointing season, it sure ain't 2007, and we sure have a lot to look forward to in 2010. We went from having too many holes to fill to now having too many guys to fill those holes (in the OF), which is nice. We got Peavey. Beckham turned out to be a stud. So I'll casually enjoy the final week, but my eyes are already on 2010.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

I would love to see the sox do the same thing. Bring in more youth and defense, and please get rid of Tony Pena and Randy Williams, please dont let them be the future core of the bullpen, they remind me of the 2007 clown car of no names.

 

Randy Williams is a career journeyman for a reason. I hope he is no where near the bullpen on opening day.

 

I would be willing to bet the Tony Pena becomes the Cliff Politte. I'm not about to predict that his ERA at the ASB is at 1.00, but I bet he's a hell of a lot better next year than he has been this year. His peripherals with the White Sox are very solid (K/9 of just under 8, K/BB of about 3, and, though his HR/9 is high at 1.21, it has been quite a bit lower in previous seasons). He's got pretty solid stuff, and I think he emerges in a 7th inning role next year. Getting an 8th inning guy is going to be a bit tougher, and I think depending on DJ Carrasco to do that may be a mistake. He's been a hell of a good rubber arm for the White Sox, but I think he needs to be kept in that role.

 

I also imagine that the bullpen is going to look quite a bit different. Dotel will be gone, and I have to imagine Williams is going to atleast try and get someone to take on Scott Linebrink. He could very easily shop Jenks too.

[SoxAce]

We traded Allen for Pena. KW sees Pena as a potential stud reliever, and I believe Pena will be a good reliever as well (probably won't be the RH Thornton like I'm sure they envision, but still very solid.) I hope for our sake our scouts are right.

[stretchstretch]

when 10-15 aspects of a team each present an arguable cause, for a team with a very high payroll such as the Sox, the top 10 reasons become the manager......

 

bolstered by the fact that the same question is posed on this board at the conclusion of now 4 straight seasons, with huge roster turnover year to year

 

unless KW has a knack for amassing highly paid but poor character players, the skipper is the only logical conclusion

 

how else do you explain failure is so many respects????

[T R U]

Could you say the same for CQ? Oh, he has the injury excuse, I forgot.

If Jimmy was having an MVP year we wouldn't have shipped hiim. Couldn't Jimmy have had MVP numbers?

You can't just blame Dye. There's plenty of double play blame to go around. Plus the bullpen has been absolutely horrrendous.

We can't win a series from anybody right now and it's not just JD's fault. He's probably the No. 1 guy to blame but what if we picked up Rios and he went crazy at the plate? What if Gordon continued his sizz and just kept blasting the s*** out of the ball? What if Lexi just went nuts and kept getting big hit after big hit?

 

Dye is a big time goat, but so is the defense, the bullpen, the baserunning, etc.

 

If you expected the same season from Carlos, especially after his injuries, you need to wise up. Last season was more of a fluke than anything from him, and I never figured to see him replicate it for us anyways.

 

Thome wouldn't be putting up MVP type numbers, hes on the decline. While being productive, he was never going to be putting up MVP numbers for us.

 

Dye has simply just disappeared in the second half.. and its not only his fault, but he is the #1 reason without a doubt and that's what this thread is.

[lostfan]

What's up with "don't put this on Dye?" Nobody is saying Dye is the reason the Sox have faded away. But you're delusional if you don't think he shouldn't get a big piece of the blame pie.

[Pumpkin Escobar]

This teams problems started day 1 of the season. It wasn't assembled well out the gate and many of us knew it. Last season was a fantastic surprise to much of baseball and many of us. It was more a product of the others teams choking then it was us going out and dominating. We dumped a very talented and good, yet inconsistent SP and didn't fill his spot with anything of substance until a week ago.

 

Many of us saw the writing on the wall with lots of the players who started on this team getting their "chance to play and prove themselves" but lots of us felt they just weren't going to amount to anything (Mr. Fields, Anderson, Mr. Owens, his name escapes me right now who we got from NY, etc). And it looks kind of accurate as most of those men are no longer on the club.

 

I think this team lacked vocal leadership - outside of perhaps Thome. Even he though is very calm and relaxed and doesn't seem to be the kind of man who can light a fire. And when you're hitting .250 much of the season, it isn't like your bat is doing the talking. He played very well but he is no longer the offense monster he was.

 

Dye fell apart. That killed. I dont know how he acted in the locker room but if it was anything remote to how he played - that couldn't have helped.

 

The bullpen we said was awful from day 1. Lots of Jenks and Linebrink haters or less than happy fans. I am one and will happy to see them go. Hopefully for something moderate. I saw someone on ESPN doesnt think Jenks or thinks he commands as much as a Sherrill. Joy. Thats a boat load.

 

Ozzie's act has worn thin I feel like with some of these veterans. Not so much worn thin as I should say has become ineffective. I think he has a lot of burden because this team is a .500 ballclub in a .500 division. A few more wins from a manager execution standpoint and who knows how this ends.

 

I think this team needs some retooling. Huge influx of new blood. If we can move Rios for half of anything - i'd almost be ok with that. I thought and still think he can be a beast here. Or he should be a beast here based on his history but he looks terrible.

 

My dreams moves would be to deal Jenks + anything for Adam Dunn or a Crawford. I'd sign some bullpen. I'd look to move Rios or even CQ (I know I'll take flack for that but it's not i think he is horrible - he is just an unecessary risk if he can command good value). I doubt theyd go for it but they have a position battle out there in LAA and Howie would look good at 2nd for us.

 

In total it probably puts on 10-15 mil for next year unless you move big $ pieces but itd be well worth it.

 

To sum up our problems this year...There were too many to list. #1 is poorly assembled (which is proven by our final product), #2 is our 4/5 SP was weak too weak to me #3 was the bullpen #4 Dye's collapse along with some other horrible hitters (Rios) and then lastly is directly on Ozzie but he deserves a good share of this crap.