son of a rude Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 The Rays are sold on outfielder Desmond Jennings, which means they will look to trade B.J. Upton or Carl Crawford. Chicago Tribune http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/...ord?eref=fromSI I don't think there is too great of a chance that we get either (especially crawford), but i thought it would be a worthy debate anyway. Do you think KW would go for another player like Upton who has a boatload of potential but is having an off year? Not sure what the Rays would want for him, but I'm sure they would want a decent amount in return. KW said there would be a lot of changes this season, do you think he will make a run for one of them? I really think there is no chance of us getting Crawford, so I am talking about Upton. He would really solidify our defense and he has the potential to be a great player. Do you think we have enough to get him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Unless the Sox want to trade Hudson or Beckham, Kenny doesn't have the prospects to land either of these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (son of a rude @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 05:16 PM) http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/...ord?eref=fromSI I don't think there is too great of a chance that we get either (especially crawford), but i thought it would be a worthy debate anyway. Do you think KW would go for another player like Upton who has a boatload of potential but is having an off year? Not sure what the Rays would want for him, but I'm sure they would want a decent amount in return. KW said there would be a lot of changes this season, do you think he will make a run for one of them? I really think there is no chance of us getting Crawford, so I am talking about Upton. He would really solidify our defense and he has the potential to be a great player. Do you think we have enough to get him? I'd bet money that the Rays will ask and get much more for Upton than they would for Crawford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 While an outfield of Rios and Upton would be pretty sexy defensively, there is a lot of underachieving going on there at the plate. Also I don't think we have the bait to pull that trade off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of a rude Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 I'd bet money that the Rays will ask and get much more for Upton than they would for Crawford. Hmm, I guess they could be. Upton is young and cheap for the next couple years, but Crawford is coming off of a career year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 The Ray's GM has said this crap some other years IIRC, and his asking price was insane. So, they're still there, imagine that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (daggins @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 05:29 PM) While an outfield of Rios and Upton would be pretty sexy defensively, there is a lot of underachieving going on there at the plate. Also I don't think we have the bait to pull that trade off. If Upton ever could get motivated to play up to his potential he would be in the MVP race every year. If he can't play for Madden, I really wonder if he would be better elsewhere, or if he's just a guy everyone will be left with wanting more. Defensively Upton in CF and Rios in RF would be about as good as it gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyuen Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 05:36 PM) If Upton ever could get motivated to play up to his potential he would be in the MVP race every year. If he can't play for Madden, I really wonder if he would be better elsewhere, or if he's just a guy everyone will be left with wanting more. Defensively Upton in CF and Rios in RF would be about as good as it gets. I would prefer crawford. Upton has issues with playing hard. I would gladly give up Hudson for Crawford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I could see KW going after an underachiever who won't cost as much in a trade, like say, Hermida. I just can't see Upton coming here and blossoming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (SoxAce @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 03:29 PM) I'd bet money that the Rays will ask and get much more for Upton than they would for Crawford. I would've agreed last year, but Upton's having a terrible season and that will undoubtedly lower his trade value. Not to mention his propensity for laziness and mental mistakes. Edited September 22, 2009 by WCSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Alexei Ramirez straight up. They could put him at 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Putting this back into PHT. We are clearly discussing whether he'd be a fit for the Sox, therefor it belongs in Palehose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 They have bartlett, zobrist, and reid brignac. they don't want middle infielders. It'd take Hudson or Flowers plus parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 05:47 PM) I would've agreed last year, but Upton's having a terrible season and that will undoubtedly lower his trade value. Not to mention his propensity for laziness and mental mistakes. Crawford is going into his free agent season and has refused to play CF regularly to this point in his career where as Upton is 3 years away from free agency, an elite defensive CF, going into his age 25 season and is just a more talented ballplayer (even at his best to date Crawford's production isn't mind blowing) so on paper there's definitely good odds that he holds higher value. It all depends on Upton's shoulder really, there's a belief that the offseason surgery he had to repair it still remains an issue and has held him back this year. If teams buy into this and believe it's something he can recover from 100% then he'll fetch you more than Crawford on the trade market. I don't know who the source is for this (it says Chicago Tribune, so that sort of narrows down the field of morons) but the entire point behind dealing Kazmir was so that they could afford to keep Carl Crawford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I thought I remembered the Sox being interested in Crawford before. He would be a good fit if the organization believes that TCQ could still play RF decently well with Rios in CF. I also would imagine this might be a place where Bobby Jenks might be a fit in a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (WCSox @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 05:47 PM) I would've agreed last year, but Upton's having a terrible season and that will undoubtedly lower his trade value. Not to mention his propensity for laziness and mental mistakes. He's still only 25, and is cheap for a couple more seasons not to mention his potential is through the roof. Yes I know his season has been a nightmare, and he's been known as alittle less lazy than Rios, but he's a much better player than Crawford easily. In fact, Crawford is very overrated in my eyes. Upton has had one of his worst walk rates this year (51 BBs), and it's still better than what Crawford has put up his entire career in a season. Upton has the much better OBP, can also steal, and has untapped power (I think he'd be utter world in a hitter's park) which will have a much better OPS in the future. Sure he'll K more than Crawford, but his discipline will more than offset that. Crawford will be getting paid soon also. QUOTE (Kalapse @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 06:08 PM) Crawford is going into his free agent season and has refused to play CF regularly to this point in his career where as Upton is 3 years away from free agency, an elite defensive CF, going into his age 25 season and is just a more talented ballplayer (even at his best to date Crawford's production isn't mind blowing) so on paper there's definitely good odds that he holds higher value. It all depends on Upton's shoulder really, there's a belief that the offseason surgery he had to repair it still remains an issue and has held him back this year. If teams buy into this and believe it's something he can recover from 100% then he'll fetch you more than Crawford on the trade market. Agreed. Edited September 22, 2009 by SoxAce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Realistically Jenks and Flowers for Crawford, Sonnenstine and Navarro. Long term it hurts the catcher position but you get three years of AJ if you give him an extension and Navarro as a back-up. or you move Jenks for the parts Tampa wants. Crawford doesn't need to play center for the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I fully expect to see Crawford locked up to another long term deal this offseason by the Rays. It's all lined up for them to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 FWIW, it'd be Crawford they'd trade unless blown away because of the FA issue. I'm not sure they'd be interested in Jenks, for the same reason that we're trying to move him. Getting expensive and going backwards. If they were, then a package built around him works...if we're also willing to spend some money on another reliever this offseason. I kinda doubt they'd go for his salary though. You can't move Alexei for him; you're patching 1 hole by creating another. Unless you think Fields can take 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Crawford would be a dumb move because he'll cost a lot and is heading towards free agency. If we really want him we're better off waiting and seeing what the Angels, Red Sox, and Yankees offer him in a new contract before we make a play. You know Crawford is going to test the market. Upton would be awesome to have, but for what he would cost I'd much, much rather go after Adrian Gonzalez and try to work out an extension (he has two years remaining at a bargain basement price after this year). If Upton costs Flowers + Viciedo + Hudson + more (because he will and there's no way just one of those guys is enough), then go after Adrian. Gonzalez would be our lefty bat and he would put the fear of God into opposing pitchers for the next several years, especially next to a healthy CQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 06:20 PM) Realistically Jenks and Flowers for Crawford, Sonnenstine and Navarro. Long term it hurts the catcher position but you get three years of AJ if you give him an extension and Navarro as a back-up. or you move Jenks for the parts Tampa wants. Crawford doesn't need to play center for the Sox. Sonnanstine blows and Navarro would be a backup catcher for us who is collecting in arb despite a horrible 2009 offensive season. Flowers and Jenks for one year of Crawford is nuts. Our main needs are pitching and defense because we need to complement our strength (starting rotation) in 2010. But if we need a lead-off hitter, hell, Getz's rookie OBP is 64 points above his batting average. A healthy Getz hitting .285 could get on at a .350 clip and steal 35 bases with an even better percentage than Crawford has. Why trade an assload for some other guy to do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 04:43 PM) Our main needs are pitching and defense because we need to complement our strength (starting rotation) in 2010. But if we need a lead-off hitter, hell, Getz's rookie OBP is 64 points above his batting average. A healthy Getz hitting .285 could get on at a .350 clip and steal 35 bases with an even better percentage than Crawford has. Why trade an assload for some other guy to do it? Because: we also have a hole at OF, and Crawford would fill that hole very strongly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 06:50 PM) Because: we also have a hole at OF, and Crawford would fill that hole very strongly. We could probably get Cody Ross for very little and he'd make our D even better out there since he could play RF. Why would we want to give up soooo much for one year of Crawford just because he's fast? Yes he's a great player overall, but he's not going to put us over the top. He's not the batting champion he was touted as in previous years and his power numbers have a lot more to do with his legs than his actual physical pop. Crawford's bat and legs aren't going to suddenly make our offense fearsome. And actually, Kenny has done a great job adding more speed and contact to our lineup already. Our sluggers however are at the ends of their ropes and we need new ones. I say, take what you'd have to give up to acquire a top-shelf fast guy like Crawford, add a bit more, and then bring in a monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 going with the theme of ridiculous trade proposals here lately: fields + lilibridge for crawford. get it done kenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of a rude Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 going with the theme of ridiculous trade proposals here lately: fields + lilibridge for crawford. get it done kenny I actually saw a proposal of konerko for justin upton on another forum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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