Soxbadger Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Swisher is not above average at CF. He played 0 games at CF this year and prior to joining the Sox had only started 57 games at CF for the A's. If he is even average, why dont the Yankees use him there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 06:49 PM) Swisher is not above average at CF. He played 0 games at CF this year and prior to joining the Sox had only started 57 games at CF for the A's. If he is even average, why dont the Yankees use him there? Putting hi in CF was the Sox bad not his. He can play CF and in fact all htree OF posiiton and he is better at iB defensively. There really was no open position for Swisher, but CF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 (edited) Swisher is NOT an above average CF. He is not even an average CF. His jumps on balls were slow. His routes were bad. He should only be in CF on days a manager has no other options. Edited September 27, 2009 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 No, Swisher is not above average in CF nor has he ever been. He isn't as terrible as people here like to pretend he is but he was nothing special either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Yeah it was the Sox fault to think he could handle CF. But after they realized it, they were smart to cut their losses and not consider him a long term CF solution. If the Sox had gotten a great offer for Dye, my guess is that Swisher is still with the Sox. They most likely got a better deal for Swisher and thought Dye would be able to produce similar results to Swisher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 02:49 PM) Swisher is not above average at CF. He played 0 games at CF this year and prior to joining the Sox had only started 57 games at CF for the A's. If he is even average, why dont the Yankees use him there? Because Brett Gardner is REALLY good in CF. Melkey Cabrera isn't half-bad himself. And neither has the power to play a corner OF spot. Swish does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 01:57 PM) Because Brett Gardner is REALLY good in CF. Melkey Cabrera isn't half-bad himself. And neither has the power to play a corner OF spot. Swish does. If Nady hadn't have been injured, Swisher would have been riding the bench. Considering how awesome you think he is offensively, wouldn't the minor defensive upgrade you give Gardner and Cabrera be offset by all of Dirty Thirty's awesomeness. Swisher is a bad CF. The White Sox came to the conclusion before they traded Swisher that he would not be playing CF anymore. You are also assuming Swisher would have bounced back in Chicago when in NY he's about 15th on the totem pole, and in Oakland, not many players get too much scrutiny. Swisher coming back would have been a whole different circumstance and there is really no way of knowing what he would do. We do know when the Sox could have used him last year, except for June, he was awful. Edited September 27, 2009 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 03:02 PM) If Nady hadn't have been injured, Swisher would have been riding the bench. Considering how awesome you think he is offensively, wouldn't the minor defensive upgrade you give Gardner and Cabrera be offset by all of Dirty Thirty's awesomeness. Swisher is a bad CF. The White Sox came to the conclusion before they traded Swisher that he would not be playing CF anymore. You are also assuming Swisher would have bounced back in Chicago when in NY he's about 15th on the totem pole, and in Oakland, not many players get too much scrutiny. Swisher coming back would have been a whole different circumstance and there is really no way of knowing what he would do. We do know when the Sox could have used him last year, except for June, he was awful. I’m not sure how big of an assumption it would be to think Swish would bounce back this year considering, you know, HE’S BOUNCING BACK, RIGHT NOW. Every measurable statistic said that Swish was unlucky last year. His BABIP was absurd. His defense in CF is adequate, and is offset my ability to get on base, and drive in runners from both sides of the plate I’d find the argument that he shouldn’t have been in CF this year, a lot more appealing if his main competition wasn’t Jerry Owens, Brian Anderson, and Dewayne Wise. Also, I don’t think it should be to Swisher’s detriment that he only stared performing after Nady got hurt. Nady got hurt, Swish played well. s*** happens. The Yankees got him as insurance, it paid off in spades. I can tell you from 1st hand experience that they love him out here. How do you like Marquez, Betemit, and Nunez? Edited September 27, 2009 by Thunderbolt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 12:14 PM) I’m not sure how big of an assumption it would be to think Swish would bounce back this year considering, you know, HE’S BOUNCING BACK, RIGHT NOW. Different work environments = different results. By your logic, Randy Moss should've been a stud in Oakland. How'd that work out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 03:27 PM) Different work environments = different results. By your logic, Randy Moss should've been a stud in Oakland. How'd that work out? Football and Baseball are radically different sports. Swish plays in a sport where he depends on his own talent, not that of a QB throwing him a ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 What are you talking about? Quit being blinded by your obvious bias against Rios. I'm comparing him to Anderson of course, but the other night he pulled up on a ball that should have been caught that was part of a big inning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 12:29 PM) Football and Baseball are radically different sports. Swish plays in a sport where he depends on his own talent, not that of a QB throwing him a ball. Moss was a perennial Pro Bowler in Minnesota (even after Cris Carter and Robert Smith retired), with Daunte Culpepper's suck ass throwing him the ball. Surely, Kerry Collins wasn't a huge step down from Culpepper? Moss' numbers tanked in Oakland because he quit playing. He even said it himself: "Why should I try, when nobody else is?" Similarly, Swish quit on the Sox last year. Instead of working with Walker when he slumped, he decided to sit on the bench, sulk, and draw the ire of his manager. Just like Moss wasn't going to work out in Oakland, Swish wasn't going to work out in Chicago. You can't look at a player in Situation A and conclude that his numbers will be similar in Situation B. Unlike video games, work environments in the real world matter. Edited September 27, 2009 by WCSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 02:14 PM) I’m not sure how big of an assumption it would be to think Swish would bounce back this year considering, you know, HE’S BOUNCING BACK, RIGHT NOW. Every measurable statistic said that Swish was unlucky last year. His BABIP was absurd. His defense in CF is adequate, and is offset my ability to get on base, and drive in runners from both sides of the plate I’d find the argument that he shouldn’t have been in CF this year, a lot more appealing if his main competition wasn’t Jerry Owens, Brian Anderson, and Dewayne Wise. Also, I don’t think it should be to Swisher’s detriment that he only stared performing after Nady got hurt. Nady got hurt, Swish played well. s*** happens. The Yankees got him as insurance, it paid off in spades. I can tell you from 1st hand experience that they love him out here. How do you like Marquez, Betemit, and Nunez? And you heard here until they got rid of him was how great a guy Swisher was and the Dirty Thirty crap and all of that. Explain his splits then? He's hitting .222 with little power at home where the Yankees have set a record for most homers at home in their history. Perhaps, and its just speculation, the scrutiny, the microscope, bothers him. He goes on the road, he's not even a second or tenth thought with that roster and he plays really well. With the Sox, he would still be expected to do a lot of things, and Chicago isn't Oakland media-wise. The bottom line is I'd rather have Rios than Swisher, and even if Swisher were here and was able to hit .249 like he's hitting now, the Sox would not have won anything as Pods would likely not have returned either. Sometimes there is addition by subtraction. Your boy Milton Bradley, who you want KW desperately to acquire, was missed so much by Texas when they let him go for nothing, they contended for a playoff spot. The Cubs suspended him and they went 7-1. Swisher's act was old, and he teammates knew when he sulked, it was all just an act. I don't blame him for sulking. I want guys on the roster who want to play. But he's a phony and had other issues. His leaving didn't hurt the Sox at all, even if Marquez, Betemit and Nunez don't ever do a thing. Also keep in mind, Viciedo is part of this deal. I take it you are very high on him. Edited September 27, 2009 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 02:45 PM) And you heard here until they got rid of him was how great a guy Swisher was and the Dirty Thirty crap and all of that. Explain his splits then? He's hitting .222 with little power at home where the Yankees have set a record for most homers at home in their history. Perhaps, and its just speculation, the scrutiny, the microscope, bothers him. He goes on the road, he's not even a second or tenth thought with that roster and he plays really well. With the Sox, he would still be expected to do a lot of things, and Chicago isn't Oakland media-wise. The bottom line is I'd rather have Rios than Swisher, and even if Swisher were here and was able to hit .249 like he's hitting now, the Sox would not have won anything as Pods would likely not have returned either. Sometimes there is addition by subtraction. Your boy Milton Bradley, who you want KW desperately to acquire, was missed so much by Texas when they let him go for nothing, they contended for a playoff spot. The Cubs suspended him and they went 7-1. Swisher's act was old, and he teammates knew when he sulked, it was all just an act. I don't blame him for sulking. I want guys on the roster who want to play. But he's a phony and had other issues. His leaving didn't hurt the Sox at all, even if Marquez, Betemit and Nunez don't ever do a thing. Also keep in mind, Viciedo is part of this deal. I take it you are very high on him. Is it okay if I save this post and just copy and paste it for every occasion over the next 5 years that Nick Swisher is brought up? The first Swisher deal was the bad one. The second one was a good one because it got his ass out of here without us having to eat salary, and in the process we were able to pick up Nunez and Viciedo. Sounds like a terrific deal to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 01:57 PM) Because Brett Gardner is REALLY good in CF. Melkey Cabrera isn't half-bad himself. And neither has the power to play a corner OF spot. Swish does. In the Swisher Traded thread you said Melky Cabrera was a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allsox Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Mistake #1) Reading Phil Rogers. The guy knows nothing about baseball. Mistake #2) Trading away Vazquez (A notorious good pitcher with bad teams/notorious bad pitcher with good teams) and Nick Swisher, who Dwayne Wise was starting ahead in the playoffs last yr weren't mistakes. Enuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I just find it amusing that people here actually think keeping Swisher and Vazquez would magically have prevented Quentin from being hurt and mediocre this year, Dye's second half suckfest, Linebrinks ERA of about 200.00 in the second half, and Buerhle being unable to win a game after his perfect game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 QUOTE (almagest @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 11:08 PM) I just find it amusing that people here actually think keeping Swisher and Vazquez would magically have prevented Quentin from being hurt and mediocre this year, Dye's second half suckfest, Linebrinks ERA of about 200.00 in the second half, and Buerhle being unable to win a game after his perfect game. No, but our opening day CF wouldn't have been Wise and our 4-5 wouldn't of been both Colon and Contreras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 No, but our opening day CF wouldn't have been Wise and our 4-5 wouldn't of been both Colon and Contreras Since you keep bringing up Swisher, whom I think is a stiff, let me put in a plug for Rowand. Until Rios (maybe) we haven't had a good option in cf since Rowand. He was (is) a stud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of a rude Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Since you keep bringing up Swisher, whom I think is a stiff, let me put in a plug for Rowand. Until Rios (maybe) we haven't had a good option in cf since Rowand. He was (is) a stud. Rowand was a pretty solid player. His 2004 season was pretty damn good. I'm not sure if I would go as far as calling him a stud, but he played sound defense and was decent on offense. I think Rios will be better in years to come, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 08:31 PM) No, but our opening day CF wouldn't have been Wise and our 4-5 wouldn't of been both Colon and Contreras We still would've had Contreras as our #5, and Vazquez would've predictably crapped his pants if we ended up contending down the stretch. I'm not a fan of Rios' contract, but I like going into 2010 with Peavy and Rios a hell of a lot more than I would've with Vazquez and Swisher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 10:31 PM) No, but our opening day CF wouldn't have been Wise and our 4-5 wouldn't of been both Colon and ContrerasThere's no guarantee either player would've done as well as they have with their new teams. Even if they did, there's absolutely no way that would push us from 6 below .500 to 11+ above. We also wouldn't have Peavy, Rios, Flowers, and possibly Viciedo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 10:31 PM) No, but our opening day CF wouldn't have been Wise and our 4-5 wouldn't of been both Colon and Contreras Actually it probably would have been, because it wasn't going to be Swisher, even if he was on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 *angry yawn* Do we really have to keep talking about Vazquez and Swisher? I realize it was this lousy article that brough it up, but enough is enough. Yes, the Sox did not get anything really for Swisher. But he obvously didn't fit in, whether it be with Ozzie or the team or whatever. And as far as Vazquez, good riddance to an almost guaranteed implosion every time he took the mound. Flowers should prove to be a good acquisition in the not too distant future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I'm going to start making Bobby Bonilla threads. Why did we trade him!!! He was awesome in Pittsburgh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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