Ozzie explodes

[greg775]

Freddy actually had a great start. He just got dinked all around in the 7th.

It was obvious he shoulda been lifted after six.

So tell us the incident since you evidently saw it and it cost us the game, cause Freddy was done.

Of course the relievers probably would have blown it anyway.

[ThunderBolt]

10 hits. 1 Bomb. Even if Freddy was left in too long, he still got hit hard.

[Soxbadger]

During the 7th inning, Ozzie and a Tigers fan got in a confrontation right as the lead started to slip away.

 

Everyone at the park thought Ozzie was going to pull Freddy, Ozzie then goes out and only talks with Freddy but doesnt pull him. Ozzie through out the whole inning continues to yell at the fan.

 

My guess is that the Tigers fan said something that led Ozzie to irrationally keep Freddy in. Ozzie's head was not in the game that inning and it lead to the Sox loss.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Soxbadger

[bobryansson]

Ozzie needs to ignore the fan, no question. That's low class.

I don't believe that caused him to not pull Freddy. I think his understandable fear of the bullpen was the reason. Seems the fear was proven to be correct.

In my previous post, when I said I'd have been mad & turned off the TV, it wasn't just because of a loss. It was THAT loss. 5-0 ------> 5-12. And I agree that the TV was just the thing that Ozzie chose to use for venting on not caring.

Assuming it was AJ, which we don't know, it seems inarguable to me that AJ doesn't care during a game. He'll do anything to get an edge to win. That being said, he can be a jerk and has been known, only at times to not much care about the fans. My guess is that, as he sat on the bench and watched innings 5-8, he was furious. By the time he got to the locker room after the 9th, he'd gotten past it.

And Ozzie, as another poster noted, knows and lves AJ's competitiveness. It will blow over, at least as far as AJ goes. Others,.....?

[Soxbadger]

Maybe it didnt impact him, but if you were to ask whats a bigger distraction:

 

A) Manager yelling at fans during the middle of the game.

 

B ) Players watching college football.

 

Im going to say A.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Soxbadger

[Dick Allen]

I was at the game last night, id say 50% were Tiger fans.

 

I agree, if not more.

[Whitewashed in '05]

I was at the game yesterday. I was in the upper deck and up there it was definitely not 50% Tigers fans. I also didn't hear many lets go tigers chants either, that was the upper deck though. After Pena got lit a lot of people started leaving so the tigers fans were definitely louder because of it, but before the big inning by the tigers, sox fans were definitely out in full support.

[Milkman delivers]

I don't know the particulars of last night crowd....therefore, I didn't comment on it at all. What I said was that most fans "checked out" of this season months ago and all one has to do is look at the archives of this board to see it.

 

As for "fans motivating players" vs. "players motivating fans", I think its a mutual relationship and both should motivate each other. You can contend the players haven't done their job this year (and I'd agree), but I think the "fan support" overall this season has been horrendous and absolutely killed our prospects of saving the season.

 

When most fans are saying things like "you suck", "get rid of them all", and "this team has no chance to win", its definitely not motivating to the team you support.

 

I don't care who you are....when you hear something enough, you start to believe it (why do you think a lot of people think people buy snuggies? because they view enough commercials that tell them its a comfortable item to wear while watching TV). Most kids who get bad grades in school do so because peers or teachers label them as "dumb" and they tend to believe so.

 

I know Ozzie does a lot to try and motivate this team and get them to believe in their abilities. However, when its the voice of 1 vs. an entire fan base, he's fighting a losing battle.

 

Losing sucks....but as Ozzie said in his post game comments its part of the game. However, if the fan base accepts it, the players will too. If you want change, than motivate them to do so.....don't tear down the morale of the team and infiltrate the organization with more of the "we suck" attitude.

 

Haha, wow.

[Milkman delivers]

Attendance has been down about 2000 per game compared to last year....but I'm not even talking about numbers. Its attitude and actions that prevail. There are a lot of "White Sox fans" (and I use that term loosely) that I wish would convert to the "other team" in town. I'd rather have 50% of the fans and have them give 100% support to the team than to have 100% of our current fans who only deliver 50% support (if we're lucky). Attitudes prevail upon an organization....I don't care if the environment is an office or a ballpark. If you're a real fan of this organization, you are planning for the 2010 World Series now (although I've already seen people on this board dismissing our chances next season before a game is ever played).

 

Again, wow.

[son of a rude]

It's all our fault.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Ozzie confirmed before the game today that it was a veteran who he was calling out, and not one of Ramirez/Quentin/Beckham/Getz/Flowers

This is a quote from WhiteSox.com :"Listen, I have [Alexei] Ramirez, Carlos Quentin, Gordon Beckham, and I got [Chris] Getz," Guillen said. "I have [Tyler] Flowers. I have seven or eight kids, and the problem we have in baseball is that the people who run this thing, they let players do whatever they want to do, and that's why they do whatever they want to do.

 

"My job is to teach those kids that it is not the way to do it. I never tell my players what to do or how to prepare yourself, but when you lose a game and all of a sudden you look around and they are watching another thing, that means you are teaching the kids, 'Don't worry about it, this is the big leagues. If we lose a game, who cares? We are out of the pennant race.'

 

"I have to teach these kids it's not the way we should handle this stuff," Guillen said. "If I let that thing go away, then I don't have the power and the right to tell the kids in the future what to do because it was like, 'Well, two years ago, you let them do it.'"

 

If those are the quotes you're referring to I don't see anything in there that said it was a veteran or say's it wasn't one of the kids. No one was exonerated and no one was implicated. Could be a mix of vets and kids were watching a game and Ozzie didn't like the example it was setting .

[ThunderBolt]

Gregor thinks it was AJ. http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/2669

[bmags]

Yeah but whose gonna accuse AJ of not giving his all?

[ThunderBolt]

Yeah but whose gonna accuse AJ of not giving his all?

Exactly, it's a dead issue. Ozzie was pissed off and tried to blow off some steam. AJ took it like a man.

[Wanne]

Maybe show this kind of passion when you piss away games against KC, the O's, etc... in May or something. Comes back and bites you in the ass don't it Oz. Now is somewhat a moot point...

[southsider2k5]

In all honesty... last nights game is keeping me from buying tickets to todays game. Who wants to see a team get thrashed by the team who beat you out for the playoffs? And I HATE the fact that Tigers fans are going to be all up in the house cheering on their playoff team louder than our fans. They have a reason to cheer though and we don't.

 

This is depressing just line 2007. I hate when the Sox suck...

 

Don't look now, but we just took two out of three from them...

[MEANS]

I was at last nights game, upper deck and yes there were many Tigers fans, and Let's Go Tigers chants, it was almost like a Boston game with the amount of opposing fans. Everyone could see Freddy had no gas in the tank and should have been taken out when Ozzie went out there the first time, but i guess it didn't matter b/c the bullpen didn't help and the tigers just dink the hell out of them.

[greg775]

10 hits. 1 Bomb. Even if Freddy was left in too long, he still got hit hard.

 

Badger thanks for the explanation of the incident. It's a reasonable argument you have that Oz was big-time pissed and distracted. But after the game he did lament that his bullpen is worn (it's also awful) and he wanted seven out of Freddy.

 

I'm surprised some don't think Freddy had a good start.

I thought he pitched very well.

How many hits and runs did he give up in his final inning after he was toast?

At this point I would prefer Hudson as our No. 5. for next year . He looked damn good today and is younger. He worked very fast which I love. He had a fluid delivery. Does he remind anybody of Peavy?

[Dick Allen]

I don't always agree with Ozzie, but here's his quote the morning after, and I think its one of his best quotes ever:

 

I have seven or eight (young players)," he said, somewhat calmer than 12 hours before. "The problem we have in baseball is that the people who run this thing, they let players do whatever they want, and that's why they do whatever they (bleeping) want to do.

 

"My job is to teach those kids that's not the way to do it. I never tell my players what to do or how to prepare yourself, but when you lose a game and all of a sudden you look around and they are watching another thing, that means you are teaching the kids, 'Don't worry about it, this is the big leagues. If we lose a game, who cares? We are out of the pennant race.'

 

"It's my job and I criticize everybody because a lot of people say baseball has changed. No, [the] people who run this game make baseball change. I'm very old school. I have to teach these kids it's not the way we should handle this stuff. If I let that thing go away, then I don't have the power and the right to tell the kids in the future what to do because it was like, 'Well, two years ago, you let them do it.' "

 

Guillen, as a player, once took a bat to a clubhouse television.

 

"I grew up a different way," he said. "I grow up, when you lose, it hurts. Respect the game, respect your teammates, respect people paying.

 

"Look at how many people walked out of (Saturday's game) disappointed. And we don't respect the people that just watched our game, and be embarrassed about the way we got beat? That's my problem. I don't have a problem with the players, I've got a problem with baseball and baseball doesn't handle it the right way."

 

[NorthSideSox72]

No one outside the clubhouse knows who it was - this is all guesswork. So I'm not going to put in AJ.

 

But I agree with Ozzie's reaction to it, no matter who it was, and I agree with his even better quotes the next day. Even if it was AJ, point still stands, and I'm glad he made it.

 

[Harry Chappas]

Just to chime in that the worst performance Saturday outside of Ron Zook was Ozzie Guillen.

 

I believe the whole thing was Guillen deflecting his piss poor managing of the 7th inning onto someone/something else. I believe it was Beckham (educated guess) and the fact that he actually may know people on that team that are following him makes Guillen's point even more pointless.

[nitetrain8601]

From what it sounds like in today's sun-times, it was a couple of people and they were watching already during the game with maybe more joining after the game.

[ThunderBolt]

From what it sounds like in today's sun-times, it was a couple of people and they were watching already during the game with maybe more joining after the game.

That eliminates the bullpen, leaving AJ, Kotsay, Buehrle, and Peavy. I imagine the training staff or clubhouse crew had the game on. A couple of the guys went in to either check some tapes, or go to the bathroom, and lingered a bit too long.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

That eliminates the bullpen, leaving AJ, Kotsay, Buehrle, and Peavy. I imagine the training staff or clubhouse crew had the game on. A couple of the guys went in to either check some tapes, or go to the bathroom, and lingered a bit too long.

That leaves everyone other than the bullpen, not just those four.

 

[ThunderBolt]

That leaves everyone other than the bullpen, not just those four.

You're right. I'm not very good at math. I just assumed that the it being a veteran rumour was still on. I was looking at the lineup at nearly everyone got in the game, including Wise, Fields and Lillibridge.