kapkomet Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 03:41 PM) Likewise I think you'd be surprised by how strong Iran's military actually is. Not really. I mean their whole infastructure was designed for fighting in the 1980s. Now they've got some technology with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 05:31 PM) Not really. I mean their whole infastructure was designed for fighting in the 1980s. Now they've got some technology with it. In a full-blown state-on-state conflict of course they'd lose to the United States if we turned all our attention/resources to them, political/financial feasibility notwithstanding. But they are fully aware that the first thing we'd do is destroy their command and control infrastructure, so they are designed to fight asymetrically and autonomously (read: brutal insurgency). An occupation of Iran would be a b****, virtually impossible. And I bet they have contingency plans stored for some terrorist activity if they needed to. I also think there is a tendency among some here in the U.S. to severely underestimate their will to fight if that did happen. Just because there is a wave of pro-Western and anti-Iranian government sentiment around their country lately doesn't mean they won't resist a foreign military. We should have learned this lesson from Iraq and we already should see how they'd respond based on the Iraq-Iran war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Your question was what would they do to Isreal, not what they would do to us. We are obviously not going to fight Iran. We just need to talk to them to get them to get their head out of their ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Yeah I got off track for a minute. Most of what I said applies to Israel too. Iraq's response to having their facilities bombed was to sponsor terrorism against Israel for the next couple of decades, Iran is already doing that but they'd step it up (they could if they wanted). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 06:59 PM) Yeah I got off track for a minute. Most of what I said applies to Israel too. Iraq's response to having their facilities bombed was to sponsor terrorism against Israel for the next couple of decades, Iran is already doing that but they'd step it up (they could if they wanted). Sure they could, but we're sending the Palestinians enough money to cover some of that. Yea, they use that money for humanitarian aid... wink wink, nod nod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 06:32 PM) Sure they could, but we're sending the Palestinians enough money to cover some of that. Yea, they use that money for humanitarian aid... wink wink, nod nod. Do you have any idea how much it costs to replace the stuff Israel destroys every few years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 08:55 PM) Do you have any idea how much it costs to replace the stuff Israel destroys every few years? However much we're sending them. A few billion here and there. Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 08:55 PM) Do you have any idea how much it costs to replace the stuff Israel destroys every few years? What are they replacing it with? Israel doesn't even let them buy concrete to fix their homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 09:10 PM) What are they replacing it with? Israel doesn't even let them buy concrete to fix their homes. OK, by that same logic, where's the billions we are sending them going? OHHHH, I only get three guesses, and the first two don't count. Oh Isreal, they just make those poor people suffer so. Here we go again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 09:13 PM) OK, by that same logic, where's the billions we are sending them going? OHHHH, I only get three guesses, and the first two don't count. Oh Isreal, they just make those poor people suffer so. Here we go again. I'm of the opinion that both sides (all three, if you toss in Iran) are a bunch of asshole who do s***ty things. No excuses for the Palestinians, no excuses for the Israelis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 09:17 PM) I'm of the opinion that both sides (all three, if you toss in Iran) are a bunch of asshole who do s***ty things. No excuses for the Palestinians, no excuses for the Israelis. Fair enough - but I guess if someone was trying to kill me every day, I wouldn't think very fondly of them either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 07:18 PM) Fair enough - but I guess if someone was trying to kill me every day, I wouldn't think very fondly of them either. You do realize that applies to both sides as well right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 09:18 PM) Fair enough - but I guess if someone was trying to kill me every day, I wouldn't think very fondly of them either. Cuts both ways, kap. Israel keeps them as perpetually occupied territory -- they're not their own state, they're not part of Israel, they're under strict economic restrictions, they're not free to move, etc. Israel's military excursions do far more damage than Hamas' s***ty rockets. This does not excuse Hamas or their actions, but a balanced view is needed. Israel is given a free pass on just about anything they want to do in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 10:24 PM) Cuts both ways, kap. Israel keeps them as perpetually occupied territory -- they're not their own state, they're not part of Israel, they're under strict economic restrictions, they're not free to move, etc. Israel's military excursions do far more damage than Hamas' s***ty rockets. This does not excuse Hamas or their actions, but a balanced view is needed. Israel is given a free pass on just about anything they want to do in this country. And I really just wish we would treat them like we treat any other country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 08:13 PM) And I really just wish we would treat them like we treat any other country. How many other countries do we give a couple billion in arms to every year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 10:18 PM) How many other countries do we give a couple billion in arms to every year? The Palestinians, for one, albiet indirectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 08:53 PM) The Palestinians, for one, albiet indirectly. If the had a couple billion dollars worth of weapons, they'd be doing a lot more than firing the occasional unguided rocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 10:59 PM) If the had a couple billion dollars worth of weapons, they'd be doing a lot more than firing the occasional unguided rocket. Huh. That's craziness you're talking now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cknolls Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I gotta believe the Saudis would look the other way i.e an Israeli attack on Iran. So too would Egypt and Jordan. I also gotta think that Syria would join the fray against Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (Cknolls @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 10:56 AM) I gotta believe the Saudis would look the other way i.e an Israeli attack on Iran. So too would Egypt and Jordan. I also gotta think that Syria would join the fray against Israel. I don't think that Egypt or Saudi Arabia would look the other way. Jordan, maybe, though they'd voice their displeasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Well he's kind of right, the Saudis don't really like Iran. That's plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 08:58 AM) Well he's kind of right, the Saudis don't really like Iran. That's plausible. On the other hand...it's also plausible they could use it as a way to whip up additional anti-Israeli furor, which is something that happens quite consistently. Especially when the civilian casualty images start showing up on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 11:59 AM) On the other hand...it's also plausible they could use it as a way to whip up additional anti-Israeli furor, which is something that happens quite consistently. Especially when the civilian casualty images start showing up on TV. The Saudi gov't does whatever it wants to do, and the feelings of their population might be entirely different from what they're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 10:58 AM) Well he's kind of right, the Saudis don't really like Iran. That's plausible. I think they like Israel a lot less. Something else to consider here - the only way Israel has of doing this military thing in Iran is with air power. How will they get there? They can bomb Syria because they can get there without crossing anyone else's airspace. The onyl way to do that to Iran is to go all the way around the Arabian penninsula to get there - impractical in fuel use and also would make it likely they'd be detected very early on. And I don't see any of Jordan, Syria, Iraq*, Saudi Arabia or Turkey allowing them to do it. * Depends on the state of the Iraqi government at that time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 29, 2009 Author Share Posted September 29, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 11:02 AM) I think they like Israel a lot less. Something else to consider here - the only way Israel has of doing this military thing in Iran is with air power. How will they get there? They can bomb Syria because they can get there without crossing anyone else's airspace. The onyl way to do that to Iran is to go all the way around the Arabian penninsula to get there - impractical in fuel use and also would make it likely they'd be detected very early on. And I don't see any of Jordan, Syria, Iraq*, Saudi Arabia or Turkey allowing them to do it. * Depends on the state of the Iraqi government at that time I really don't think that any of those countries could stop Israel from doing anything if Israel decided that it had to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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