LDF Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 and i will continue to defend him, even now at his current status, he is better than Rick White...and he got himself in trouble with control tonight, and minimized the damage. He will either have to use what he has now, or go DL and figure out the velocity drop cause. WTF, we shouldnt even be talking about Koch after this game, yet we always come back to the same subject. Lets talk about Rich White...his 6+ ERA, his mouth that has been talking about, "I don't know my role." Your goddamn role is to not give up 5 f***ing runs to the Devil Rays...your role is to get people out. Hell, Koch at least got through 2 innings, and pitched OVER his problems...White cant say the same. btw on 2 innings pitch, 2 bb 2 hits, 1 er no strike out they still scored on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Yeah, 1 run, and thats 89% less than they scored on the rest of the team...someone has to diagnose his problem, it doesnt seem to be much of a priority to the staff, and I'm confused...Billy is a gamer, and he is gonna go out there everytime his number is called, whether he is physically capable or not(more than i can say for Fatolo, BTW) if they are waiting for him to tell them the problem, they are gonna be waiting a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Yeah, 1 run, and thats 89% less than they scored on the rest of the team...someone has to diagnose his problem, it doesnt seem to be much of a priority to the staff, and I'm confused...Billy is a gamer, and he is gonna go out there everytime his number is called, whether he is physically capable or not(more than i can say for Fatolo, BTW) if they are waiting for him to tell them the problem, they are gonna be waiting a while. billy is a gamer, by your defination so is porzio and white. whew, i am glad we know they are gamers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 billy is a gamer, by your defination so is porzio and white. whew, i am glad we know they are gamers. No, White is a pile of crap..who cries when he doesnt know "his role" on the team. Porzio was probably just happy to be in MLB...Koch, he just pitches.hurt, unable, doesnt matter, he just wants to pitch, and he genuinely wants to do whats best for the team. More than i can say for White and Fatolo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 No, White is a pile of crap..who cries when he doesnt know "his role" on the team. Porzio was probably just happy to be in MLB...Koch, he just pitches.hurt, unable, doesnt matter, he just wants to pitch, and he genuinely wants to do whats best for the team. More than i can say for White and Fatolo. are you sure with your assessment of white. i mean are you 100% sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 are you sure with your assessment of white. i mean are you 100% sure? Well, I know White needs to shut his mouth about his 'role'. I look at things in an odd way, that's how many do it here from my country, and I think his role is to get the batters out when he is asked to do so. I'm not sure what he doesn't get about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 I am sure that he is a pile of crap...but I'll regress a little...he shouldn't have been out there for 3 innings really..but then again, when your starter puts you in that position, and your bullpen is overworked from an extra inning game, not many options. So, where does that leave us? I guess in the fact that we had no 5th starter, and it hurt us the most today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 I am sure that he is a pile of crap...but I'll regress a little...he shouldn't have been out there for 3 innings really..but then again, when your starter puts you in that position, and your bullpen is overworked from an extra inning game, not many options. So, where does that leave us? I guess in the fact that we had no 5th starter, and it hurt us the most today. the 5 starter, porzio starting, white pitching for how many innings, who cares, you were talking about botch being a great gamer and white is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 He is by no means a consistent pitcher...look at his career stats...one year he is dominant...next year, WHIP over 1.5, which is garbage for a reliever called upon for 1-2 innings. All I know is what I read and see myself, and I know that any player who whines about "roles" are petty. Yeah Koch talked this year too, but all he said is that he is the closer, not "Why am I not closing games, thats my 'role'." No one wants to hear pitchers piss and moan about what they are used for in the heat of a pennant race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 He is by no means a consistent pitcher...look at his career stats...one year he is dominant...next year, WHIP over 1.5, which is garbage for a reliever called upon for 1-2 innings. All I know is what I read and see myself, and I know that any player who whines about "roles" are petty. Yeah Koch talked this year too, but all he said is that he is the closer, not "Why am I not closing games, thats my 'role'." No one wants to hear pitchers piss and moan about what they are used for in the heat of a pennant race. and with that you will not see me saying anthing against you, i am just saying that botch at this time sucks as he has done all yr and the second half of last yr. he might be done for in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 and I will say that he will be back..and leave it at that...I've reached my Koch defense limit for the night...thanks for the debate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 and I will say that he will be back..and leave it at that...I've reached my Koch defense limit for the night...thanks for the debate... sure no prob....... and he might be back but not this yr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Who cares if Koch may be better than White? White is crap, also. I agree with the great post that said Koch should be put on DL. He's like Ritchie. We need to just stop using him completely. He sucks. We should ship him somewhere before the trade deadline for a couple prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Well, I have arqued this with Cap in another thread. First koch sucks, doesn't matter what he did in the past, for the sox he sucks. i want him gone because he is ineffective and we cannot trust him. I realize KW made the mistake, so now get rid of him. Mistakes need to be eliminated. As for White he sucks as well, but he costs us 650,000 worth of suck and Koch costs us 4.5 million of suck. I can accept suck from 650,000 but not from 4.5 million. Therefore eliminate 4.5 million so we can get another pitcher or bench help. This matters because 4.5 million can get us better players. In addition I do not beleive Koch will come back to pitch 100 mph again. he may well be injured, or he maybe getting older or he may have a psych problem or he may have a dead arm, or he may have just lost it. either way I don't trust the pyscho and would love him off my team. You cannot ahve a 4.5 million dollar mop up bullpen guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Well, I have arqued this with Cap in another thread. First koch sucks, doesn't matter what he did in the past, for the sox he sucks. i want him gone because he is ineffective and we cannot trust him. I realize KW made the mistake, so now get rid of him. Mistakes need to be eliminated. As for White he sucks as well, but he costs us 650,000 worth of suck and Koch costs us 4.5 million of suck. I can accept suck from 650,000 but not from 4.5 million. Therefore eliminate 4.5 million so we can get another pitcher or bench help. This matters because 4.5 million can get us better players. In addition I do not beleive Koch will come back to pitch 100 mph again. he may well be injured, or he maybe getting older or he may have a psych problem or he may have a dead arm, or he may have just lost it. either way I don't trust the pyscho and would love him off my team. You cannot ahve a 4.5 million dollar mop up bullpen guy. Yeah, but too bad, cause he ain't going anywhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Yeah, but too bad, cause he ain't going anywhere... are you kw in disguise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 are you kw in disguise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 It sickens me that we're arguing over whose worse, White or Botch. I think Koch's problem is simply that he was overworked last year and KW was a dumbass not to see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 It sickens me that we're arguing over whose worse, White or Botch. I think Koch's problem is simply that he was overworked last year and KW was a dumbass not to see that. DING, DING!!!! We have a winner....thats exactly what I've been saying...but its easier for Sox fans to say, Koch sucks...I guess if thats our biggest problem right now, we are doing ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 SO whats the point... he was overworked, if so that is why he sucks now? I get it, but he still sucks. I don't care who is to blame, I don't want him in a SOx uniform. I have no sympathy for the reason just get him off my team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball4life23 Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 He doesn't suck, he's just really off. A few years ago he was kicking ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 I got your back.. I am a Koch supporter and I believe that if he doesnt turn it this year next year he is going to be his usual badass self Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 No, White is a pile of crap..who cries when he doesnt know "his role" on the team. Porzio was probably just happy to be in MLB...Koch, he just pitches.hurt, unable, doesnt matter, he just wants to pitch, and he genuinely wants to do whats best for the team. More than i can say for White and Fatolo. If him pitching like a pile of ass because he is "hurt" is considered doing what's best for the team you got me on that one. The Koch fans say look at the stats before this year. Last year he threw the most pitches per inning of any closer (not a sign of dominance). Further a closer, espcially a "prototypical one is expected to get a lot of strike outs Koch does not. Despite a "100" mph fastball, Keith Foulke has consistantly racked up more k's. Koch's 85% save percentage is not the most flattering, compare if you dare there are far better, I think Foulke is close to 90%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 You said it all right there LDF...KW wanted Foulke out of here, and he made a move that while financially and roleplay made sense, he forgot to make sure that Koch was able to do what he was acquired to do. What was he aquired to do close games? So let me get the argument straight, we can't say Koch sucks because he he is a s***ty closer, due to the claim that his s***tiness isn't his fault? If he is incapable of being a closer, he sucks period. A $6000000 mop up man swell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 If him pitching like a pile of ass because he is "hurt" is considered doing what's best for the team you got me on that one. The Koch fans say look at the stats before this year. Last year he threw the most pitches per inning of any closer (not a sign of dominance). Further a closer, espcially a "prototypical one is expected to get a lot of strike outs Koch does not. Despite a "100" mph fastball, Keith Foulke has consistantly racked up more k's. Koch's 85% save percentage is not the most flattering, compare if you dare there are far better, I think Foulke is close to 90%. It doesnt matter how good Foulkes numbers are, the guy was outta here after 2003..no way in hell was he coming back to an organizatio headed my KW and JM. Like I said, if Kochs performance is all we have to worry about, then the team isn't doing too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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