Balta1701 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 QUOTE (Felix @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 12:20 PM) Only problem with this theory is that their current GM isn't a complete moron like Dave Littlefield was. Doesn't mean he won't eventually have to trade the guy for parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 02:30 PM) Doesn't mean he won't eventually have to trade the guy for parts. Doesn't mean those parts will be "basically nothing." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 '97: Purchased Ricardo Rincon from the Mexico City Reds '98: Traded Ricardo Rincon for Brian Giles '03: Traded Brian Giles for Oliver Perez and Jason Bay '06: Traded Oliver Perez for Xavier Nady '08: Traded Xavier Nady (with Damaso Marte via Rob Mackowiak who was acquired via draft) for Daniel McCutchen, Jose Tabata, Jeff Karstens and Ross Ohlendorf '08: Traded Jason Bay to the Red Sox for Bryan Morris, Andy LaRoche, Craig Hansen and Brandon Moss Ricardo Rincon and Rob Mackowiak = Daniel McCutchen, Jose Tabata, Jeff Karstens, Ross Ohlendorf, Bryan Morris, Andy LaRoche, Craig Hansen and Brandon Moss. oh and the 5 best years of Brian Giles' career, 4.5 seasons of Jason Bay's prime and the best years of Oliver Perez and Xavier Nady's careers. They haven't totally f***ed up ever trade over the past 2 decades, they've done a pretty damn good job holding onto the value of Brian Giles. (though the Jason Bay trade is still questionable at best) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 QUOTE (Felix @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 02:32 PM) Doesn't mean those parts will be "basically nothing." Case in point: Freddy Sanchez for Tim Alderson '03: Signed Jeff Suppan as a free agent '03: Traded Jeff Suppan (with Scott Sauerbeck who was acquired via Rule V) for Freddy Sanchez and Cash '08: Traded Freddy Sanchez for Tim Alderson That right there is maximizing Jeff Suppan's value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 QUOTE (Felix @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 02:32 PM) Doesn't mean those parts will be "basically nothing." I was being halfway serious, halfway sarcastic. I hope they stop trading decent players for nothing. They haven't been over .500 in 18 years which is rediculous. I don't know anything about their GM, so hopefully he knows what he's doing and has a plan of attack for the team. This year the Pirates traded some of their better players like Nyjer Morgan, Nate McLouth, Jack Wilson, Freddy Sanchez, and Adam LaRoche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 11:37 AM) Steak and a BJ. Sit him down for a Steak Dinner. Steak Dinner BOOM. That being said we are not getting Andrew McCutched. Unless, we want to trade Gordon Beckham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 02:42 PM) Case in point: Freddy Sanchez for Tim Alderson No doubt since the new guys took over, their draft philosophy (actually giving the $$ to Pedro Alverez) and some of the trades they've made, they are a different org. than in years past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 02:42 PM) Case in point: Freddy Sanchez for Tim Alderson '03: Signed Jeff Suppan as a free agent '03: Traded Jeff Suppan (with Scott Sauerbeck who was acquired via Rule V) for Freddy Sanchez and Cash '08: Traded Freddy Sanchez for Tim Alderson That right there is maximizing Jeff Suppan's value. And trading for Matt Morris when you could have spent that money on prospects more than negates this. All it takes are a couple really bad deals to f*** everything up, and the Pirates have done that a lot over the years. However, the new regime is being a lot smarter about how and where they are spending. I for one really liked the McLouth deal for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 03:01 PM) And trading for Matt Morris when you could have spent that money on prospects more than negates this. All it takes are a couple really bad deals to f*** everything up, and the Pirates have done that a lot over the years. However, the new regime is being a lot smarter about how and where they are spending. I for one really liked the McLouth deal for them. That and the whole wasting draft after draft after draft and failing to develop pitching worth a damn thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 03:04 PM) That and the whole wasting draft after draft after draft and failing to develop pitching worth a damn thing. But they gave a try-out to those two Indian cricket players... /green-ish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Kalapse @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 03:04 PM) That and the whole wasting draft after draft after draft and failing to develop pitching worth a damn thing. Yeah, going with "safe picks" while spending payroll on mediocre veterans = lots of losing season. The Pirates have done a great job unloading though. I applaud them for ditching Jack Wilson (albeit too late) and Freddy Sanchez's 2010 option. Aside from the managing side (like the Duke thread I made in Talking Baseball), I really like what the Pirates have done lately. My favorite deal is the McLouth deal, because they took an overrated (but still very good) player who wasn't going to be part of their future and they traded him for 3 solid prospects. Gorkys could become a better version of Nyjer Morgan, and the pitchers they got back could end up as #3/#4 starters in the NL. I think the key for a rebuilding team is to try to put out about a 75-80 win ballclub with a very low payroll by stocking up on prospects who have a good shot to become near league-average players rather than holding out for one star prospect. Those average prospects who maybe aren't as toolsy but are better bets to play well in the Majors are always available, so I say stock up on them if you can by trading average or above-average MLB talent so you can look to create a cheap core of averageness. Then use the payroll to spend heavily on superstar prospects which will augment your average core. Then, hopefully, you can find yourself in a position where you have no major holes on the field, just a bunch of averageness, and you can at that point deal off excess prospects in your system for cheap, productive MLB players that will add to your win total without vastly increasing your payroll like is the case in free agency. The McLouth deal I feel takes that kind of direction which is why I like it so much, because McLouth isn't a star player but the other guys are pretty good bets to be average players. And from a Sox fan standpoint, if I were the Pirates GM and Kenny called me about trading for Matt Capps for example (not saying Kenny would), then instead of asking for a guy with a higher ceiling but smaller chance of making it, like a Jordan Danks, I'd rather throw in a small piece and try to get both Retherford and Morel, who don't have the ceiling but are good bets for around league average. Then take the salary savings from Capps and make a splash in international free agency. But anyway, I'm amazed that it has taken so long for an organization like the Pirates to take advantage of the broken Rule-4 draft and international signing systems. They seem to be doing it now though, and their trades are being smarter too. They're not holding out for some huge prospects, they're just looking for decent players, trimming salary, and spending a lot on the farm. Edited October 1, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 03:37 PM) But they gave a try-out to those two Indian cricket players... /green-ish They signed those guys, and IMO it was another great move. It doesn't matter if either player makes it. What is important is that they have gotten their name out there in India, and there are a lot of f***ing people in India. Who knows, maybe that small investment and the resulting publicity leads to the first great Indian prospect being discovered, signed, and developed by the Pirates organization? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 11:45 AM) Step 1: Fire ozzie Step 2: Get the Pirates to hire Ozzie Step 3: Cut a hole in a box Step 4: Trade McCutcheon straight up for Wise. Im laughing my ass off!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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