southsider2k5 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 09:41 PM) Never underestimate Minnesota. They proved that time and time again. BTW, I think Liriano will explode next year. He'll be two years removed from TJ, which is when more often than not pitchers get much, much better. And again things change in the offseason with acquisitions and such. No doubt though we wont be picked first which is better for us anyways. I'm not underestimating anyone, I am just saying the Sox have their best years when no one is talking about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 10:41 PM) I'm not underestimating anyone, I am just saying the Sox have their best years when no one is talking about them. Mike, my post was directed at KHP not you brotha.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 We might have won this division is Robert Duran wasn't our shortstop and our corner outfielders could have actually played the outfield. Better pitch selection couldn't have hurt either. we also might have won without a horrible bullpen and bad hitting attack and bad baserunning. Let's face it, there were plenty of reasons we had the record we did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Alex has started to come out of it which I think will carry over to next season. He wont even be a bargain, but he may be worth his pay which is fine with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 10:51 PM) Mike, my post was directed at KHP not you brotha.. It's all good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 05:48 AM) Alex has started to come out of it which I think will carry over to next season. He wont even be a bargain, but he may be worth his pay which is fine with me. Hell, he's talented enough that if he keeps his head in the game and gets his swing fixed up, he could still actually be a bargain. 30/30 hitters in CF don't exactly grow on trees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 11:11 AM) Hell, he's talented enough that if he keeps his head in the game and gets his swing fixed up, he could still actually be a bargain. 30/30 hitters in CF don't exactly grow on trees. Especially ones with his defensive skill set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 12:10 AM) Well then that's a good sign. If Hawk has given up on him this early, look for him to rebound next year. The Ole Hawkeroo has been around the game since dirt was held in the hand of the Almighty himself. I always take what Hawk says as gospel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 11:36 AM) The Ole Hawkeroo has been around the game since dirt was held in the hand of the Almighty himself. I always take what Hawk says as gospel. Agree. The earth was created in 1941 and that's why I don't believe in Abraham Lincoln. When people tell me that scientists have evidence of Abraham Lincoln's existence, I just pull out the good old table thumper and ask them to find me the passage where it mentions Abraham Lincoln. Edited October 2, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Hell, he's talented enough that if he keeps his head in the game and gets his swing fixed up, he could still actually be a bargain. 30/30 hitters in CF don't exactly grow on trees. Aside from standard 5x5 format fantasy baseball reasons, what's the big deal about a guy going 30/30 in 650 at-bats while possibly putting up a low OBP and sub-.800 OPS? It's the Soriano argument. I'd like to see Rios hit 30 homers and have 30 stolen bases in a season, but I hope it doesn't take him 700 PA's and have the same SB% as he's had with the Sox. He's never hit 30 home runs in a season (only cracked 20 once with 24 in almost 700 PA's) and peaked with 32 SB's with almost 680 PA's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 12:17 PM) Aside from standard 5x5 format fantasy baseball reasons, what's the big deal about a guy going 30/30 in 650 at-bats while possibly putting up a low OBP and sub-.800 OPS? It's the Soriano argument. I'd like to see Rios hit 30 homers and have 30 stolen bases in a season, but I hope it doesn't take him 700 PA's and have the same SB% as he's had with the Sox. He's never hit 30 home runs in a season (only cracked 20 once with 24 in almost 700 PA's) and peaked with 32 SB's with almost 680 PA's. Rios is not the type of hitter to post a sub-.800 OPS in a 30HR season. If he hits 30 bombs his OPS will be well over .800. The closest he has come was in '07 and he hit 43 2B with 24 HR and his OPS was .852. Rios is nothing like Soriano. Yes Rios plays a ton of games. Why is that a bad thing? Edit: Also, as long Soriano has been a regular player, this season is one of only 2 where he's had a sub-.800 OPS. Edited October 2, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyuen Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 11:11 AM) Hell, he's talented enough that if he keeps his head in the game and gets his swing fixed up, he could still actually be a bargain. 30/30 hitters in CF don't exactly grow on trees. No they dont and hes far from a 30/30 hitter. hes not even close and why people think he is is crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 QUOTE (docsox24 @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 01:08 PM) No they dont and hes far from a 30/30 hitter. hes not even close and why people think he is is crazy. people think like that because 2 years ago he was 6 HR shy of being 30-30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Hell, he's talented enough that if he keeps his head in the game and gets his swing fixed up, he could still actually be a bargain. 30/30 hitters in CF don't exactly grow on trees. Can people who want people like me to quit beating a dead horse and writing the same negative opinion of Rios over and over please please stop tempting people like me with posts like the above? Can we all just agree we hope Rios will turn it around next year? You all get the fact I've been down on Rios; I get the message that some of you really like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 01:21 PM) Can people who want people like me to quit beating a dead horse and writing the same negative opinion of Rios over and over please please stop tempting people like me with posts like the above? Can we all just agree we hope Rios will turn it around next year? You all get the fact I've been down on Rios; I get the message that some of you really like him. He's always had potential for that, that's why he was drafted where he was and that's why he was given the extension he was. It's not that just some few Sox fans like him, it's that all of baseball sees him as a player with that kind of ability. Where the opinions differ is whether or not he'll play up to his potential and why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 11:36 AM) He's always had potential for that, that's why he was drafted where he was and that's why he was given the extension he was. It's not that just some few Sox fans like him, it's that all of baseball sees him as a player with that kind of ability. Where the opinions differ is whether or not he'll play up to his potential and why. If he does, we're in great shape. If he doesn't...we're in real trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyuen Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 01:11 PM) people think like that because 2 years ago he was 6 HR shy of being 30-30 so one time in a 6 year career he got 6 hrs away and that makes him a promising 30/30 player?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 01:45 PM) If he does, we're in great shape. If he doesn't...we're in real trouble. As a CF we just need about .280/.330/.450 out of him to be worth his contract IMO, and even with this year weighing his numbers down his career line is still .280/.330/.444. If he does a whole lot better than that he becomes a steal. Look at this way, his deal pays him what Rowand gets paid, less than what Hunter gets paid, about equal to GMJ, same as Fukudome, etc. Rios is younger than all those guys and is a better defender than all those guys, and has the ability to be a better offensive player over the length of his deal than all those guys. A good but not great Rios is still worth a lot given his defensive value and the type of dollars top CFers command in free agency. If you take just the total numbers Rios has put up in '06-'08 and average them, Rios would be about here: .297/.347/.492/.839 with 19 HR, 41 2B, 7 3B, 21/27 SB, 85 RBI Even an average of those three seasons would make him a steal IMO, and that's not even saying he lives up to his potential. He's young, he's in his prime, he's a plus defender at a premium position, and we gave up absolutely nothing - not even draft picks - to acquire him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I'd take him at his average happily, given how weak we've been at that position the last few years. You'd get no complaints from me. The thing I have in the back of my mind gnawing at me though is how bad he's been this year and the fact that he's been on a slow downward trend for 2 years now. Really have to hope he turns that around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 QUOTE (docsox24 @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 01:55 PM) so one time in a 6 year career he got 6 hrs away and that makes him a promising 30/30 player?? Dont get potential confused with promise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 QUOTE (docsox24 @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 01:55 PM) so one time in a 6 year career he got 6 hrs away and that makes him a promising 30/30 player?? He has power to all fields even though he hasn't shown it with us, and if you check out some of his highlight videos with the Jays you can see that for yourself. He's hit some bombs in that park to straight-away CF and LCF without the aid of wind. He's looked powerless here and it almost has to be something in his swing. He's always had the crouch so I'm not sure he needs to change that but I do wonder if he'd be able to take a stance like Dye since he's so tall. He's a project for Walker right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 QUOTE (docsox24 @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 11:55 AM) so one time in a 6 year career he got 6 hrs away and that makes him a promising 30/30 player?? Also gotta keep in mind which park he was hitting in. Toronto just isn't the Cell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 12:17 PM) Aside from standard 5x5 format fantasy baseball reasons, what's the big deal about a guy going 30/30 in 650 at-bats while possibly putting up a low OBP and sub-.800 OPS? It's the Soriano argument. I'd like to see Rios hit 30 homers and have 30 stolen bases in a season, but I hope it doesn't take him 700 PA's and have the same SB% as he's had with the Sox. He's never hit 30 home runs in a season (only cracked 20 once with 24 in almost 700 PA's) and peaked with 32 SB's with almost 680 PA's. I know there is a post in there somewhere, but I was distracted by your hugely biased sig and avatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 He's always had potential for that, that's why he was drafted where he was and that's why he was given the extension he was. It's not that just some few Sox fans like him, it's that all of baseball sees him as a player with that kind of ability. Where the opinions differ is whether or not he'll play up to his potential and why. Fair enough. I just thought 30/30 was asking for a lot from him. Maybe he needs to work on the mental approach this winter if he has all the physical tools. Even though he's rich and set for life financially, if he wants to be a special player in White Sox lore, he's going to have to improve ... and fast. I'm sure our pitchers will like the face he's out there chasing down deep drives. We all know he can field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 i hate to bring up his doubles again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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