Rogers suggests trading for Fielder

[Quin]

Prince is not a possibility. Kenny and Reinsdorf do not work with Scott Borass.

 

For Gonzalez we'd have to start with something like Flowers + Viciedo + Hudson + D2 and then let the Padres have their pick of any 2-3 more out of our system. Or maybe we would have to throw in Alexei, but if we did I'd ask for Everth Cabrera back. And I'd do either deal in a heartbeat. If we make or win the Series in 2010 then the payroll is going to go up quite a bit, enough to keep our rotation together for a major run over the following 2-3 years. And I know that would be a s***load of talent to give up, and people (me included) hate the drain the farm, but winning titles at the MLB level always take priority and Gonzalez at about 25% of market value for 2 years in a row gives us a very good chance of doing that.

 

D2 is my untouchable (See: Danks, John Contract Status) and I'd be very hesitant on dealing Alexei.

 

Hudson I do everything I can to hold on to. But if he's the final piece and the Padres don't budge, I throw him in.

 

I'd let them also pick one of Retherford or Nix, but not both.

 

From there they can gut the farm if they so choose.

[Balta1701]

Prince is not a possibility. Kenny and Reinsdorf do not work with Scott Borass.

 

For Gonzalez we'd have to start with something like Flowers + Viciedo + Hudson + D2 and then let the Padres have their pick of any 2-3 more out of our system. Or maybe we would have to throw in Alexei, but if we did I'd ask for Everth Cabrera back. And I'd do either deal in a heartbeat. If we make or win the Series in 2010 then the payroll is going to go up quite a bit, enough to keep our rotation together for a major run over the following 2-3 years. And I know that would be a s***load of talent to give up, and people (me included) hate the drain the farm, but winning titles at the MLB level always take priority and Gonzalez at about 25% of market value for 2 years in a row gives us a very good chance of doing that.

If it wasn't for Boras...then going after a guy like Fielder is exactly the sort of surprise move that KW always seems to pull out of his hat.

 

He'll ask about Gonzalez but there's just no reason for the Pads to move him right now unless you overwhelm them. That basically means Beckham has to be involved. Fielder though, he's just about to be expensive enough that the Brewers might move him for less than Beckham. There's just the whole Boras thing.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

D2 is my untouchable (See: Danks, John Contract Status) and I'd be very hesitant on dealing Alexei.

 

Hudson I do everything I can to hold on to. But if he's the final piece and the Padres don't budge, I throw him in.

 

I'd let them also pick one of Retherford or Nix, but not both.

 

From there they can gut the farm if they so choose.

There's a very real chance D2 never becomes anything more than a 4th OF. I doubt Johnny Danks is going to up and decide to leave so he can play wherever his brother is playing. Remember, Johnny Danks never came out and actually said he'd do something like that. This is just Sox fan speculation anyway. We've treated Jordan well and our FO knows the Danks family and I'm sure everyone involved is grown up enough to understand that sometimes you have to give up something good to get something good.

 

Hudson is awesome and I'd love to keep him too, but we'd already be stretching it enough trying to get Adrian without including Floyd, Johnny Danks, CQ, or Beckham. Hudson would be a deal-breaker if we didn't include him.

 

The Padres already have a SS so they probably wouldn't ask for both Retherford and Nix anyway. If I were them though I'd ask for CJ because he could be a real nice fit for their ballpark. A lot of Nix's power wouldn't show up in San Diego.

 

 

[Balta1701]

There's a very real chance D2 never becomes anything more than a 4th OF. I doubt Johnny Danks is going to up and decide to leave so he can play wherever his brother is playing. Remember, Johnny Danks never came out and actually said he'd do something like that. This is just Sox fan speculation anyway. We've treated Jordan well and our FO knows the Danks family and I'm sure everyone involved is grown up enough to understand that sometimes you have to give up something good to get something good.

While that is true that D1 never said anything like that, actions speak louder than words. Actions like having both D1 and D2 dump Scott Boras right after we drafted D2. Plain and simple, that action should have strongly endeared them to us. IMO, treat them as a package. You move 1, you have to move the other in the same deal. Like it or not, developing D2 is our job.

[Quin]

There's a very real chance D2 never becomes anything more than a 4th OF. I doubt Johnny Danks is going to up and decide to leave so he can play wherever his brother is playing. Remember, Johnny Danks never came out and actually said he'd do something like that. This is just Sox fan speculation anyway. We've treated Jordan well and our FO knows the Danks family and I'm sure everyone involved is grown up enough to understand that sometimes you have to give up something good to get something good.

 

Hudson is awesome and I'd love to keep him too, but we'd already be stretching it enough trying to get Adrian without including Floyd, Johnny Danks, CQ, or Beckham. Hudson would be a deal-breaker if we didn't include him.

 

The Padres already have a SS so they probably wouldn't ask for both Retherford and Nix anyway. If I were them though I'd ask for CJ because he could be a real nice fit for their ballpark. A lot of Nix's power wouldn't show up in San Diego.

 

Again, I'd break if they absolutely demanded Hudson, but I'd ship him before Floyd, Danks, CQ, or Beckham.

 

As for D2, they might take Shelby + Cash in the place of D2.

 

At least, I hope they would.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

If it wasn't for Boras...then going after a guy like Fielder is exactly the sort of surprise move that KW always seems to pull out of his hat.

 

He'll ask about Gonzalez but there's just no reason for the Pads to move him right now unless you overwhelm them. That basically means Beckham has to be involved. Fielder though, he's just about to be expensive enough that the Brewers might move him for less than Beckham. There's just the whole Boras thing.

Agree on Prince. He makes sense for a lot of teams, but the agent issue is a huge one for us.

 

I think the Padres will move Adrian. It doesn't make sense for them not to. I've read that some in the Padres organization believe they may be able to compete next year, but I can't see that as a reality. There's just no way, the Padres have way too many holes and their young pitching is just starting to come in now, but they're not ready. Trading Gonzalez would really help that club out as far as 2010 goes. If they let Gonzalez walk they'll get 2 picks in 2012 that likely won't see the Majors until 2014-15. If they deal Gonzalez now they can get a host of players who will see the Majors, if not start, in 2010. I mean, where would you rather be come September 2011 if you were the Padres? Would you rather have a few guys ready to contend as part of your new core while you watch your best player leave, or would you rather have almost a whole team ready to contend the following season?

 

If they dealt with us for example, Flowers would be their C, Retherford/Nix/Getz could start over Eckstein right now, Viciedo would be up midseason 2010, Hudson would help anchor their rotation behind Matt Latos while Chris Young gets healthy, Nate Jones could try to fill out their closer spot midseason when they trade Heath Bell, Jordan Danks would probably be up by midseason if he's healthy, etc. It would probably take that much talent, and in their shoes, I make that deal yesterday provided its the best offer. And I'd definitely make that deal from the Sox point of view because I want to see us get back to the Series.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

While that is true that D1 never said anything like that, actions speak louder than words. Actions like having both D1 and D2 dump Scott Boras right after we drafted D2. Plain and simple, that action should have strongly endeared them to us. IMO, treat them as a package. You move 1, you have to move the other in the same deal. Like it or not, developing D2 is our job.

There was also the little issue about Jordan Danks being viewed as a top-100 draft prospect, and in some places even higher, but yet he fell to us in the 7th round, 210th overall. I think even if we don't draft Jordan and someone else does, Scott Borass still gets kicked to the curb. Jordan was DEFINITELY a first day talent and they were shocked to see him still sitting there on the board at the end of it. I believe they went 6 rounds the first day that year, and then with the 8th pick of the second day the Sox took him after the Danks family notified teams they were dropping Borass. If the Sox don't take him in the 7th round he's gone before they pick again in the 8th IMO.

[southsider2k5]

There was also the little issue about Jordan Danks being viewed as a top-100 draft prospect, and in some places even higher, but yet he fell to us in the 7th round, 210th overall. I think even if we don't draft Jordan and someone else does, Scott Borass still gets kicked to the curb. Jordan was DEFINITELY a first day talent and they were shocked to see him still sitting there on the board at the end of it. I believe they went 6 rounds the first day that year, and then with the 8th pick of the second day the Sox took him after the Danks family notified teams they were dropping Borass. If the Sox don't take him in the 7th round he's gone before they pick again in the 8th IMO.

 

Danks told teams not to draft him unless they were going to pay him first or second round money IIRC.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Danks told teams not to draft him unless they were going to pay him first or second round money IIRC.

I think it was Borass who was making those statements. Danks just plays baseball. He probably lets his agent determine how much he should be asking for. Jordan still got like $600-700K from us didn't he? Either way, Borass misjudged his client's value and it was obvious Jordan just wanted to get started playing professional baseball.

[rockren]

KW claiming Rios off of waivers should be a sign of things to come. KW didn't put together potentially the greatest rotation in all of baseball and disregard his defense. While Prince has come A LONG way on defense (I live in the Madison and watch the Brewers almost nightly) he's still below average at best defensively.

 

Add in the fact that Boras represents Fielder as stated numerous times in this thread...I can't say enough how far off base this idea proposed by Rogers is.

Edited October 3, 2009 by rockren

[GreatScott82]

KW will not strip his farm system for a Boras client. If the Sox trade for an offensive player this winter- i hope its Carl Crawford.

[kitekrazy]

Sigh. He is reading Soxtalk.

 

Knowing Rogers he was probably thinking the Cecil was still playing.

[kitekrazy]

STFU Phil Rogers.

 

Amen.

 

[Dizzy Sox]

 

I can not believe this guy gets paid to think of idiotic trades like this. I mean, this kind of trade would get laughed out of a fantasy league, much less the real world where 1. the lack of a slugging 1st baseman isn't the Sox biggest problems 2. young, cheap, good starting pitching a la Floyd, Danks, and Hudson is one of the rarest and most prized commodities in baseball and 3. 4 for 1 trades rarely happen-and yes, the Peavy trade is the exception that proves the rule.

 

 

[striker]

I doubt the Sox trade for a rental player (Crawford).

I doubt the Sox trade the house for Fielder or Gonzalez.

The Sox will sign someone for $7mil or less and put them in the cleanup spot or 5th.

Putting all your chips on one spot in roulette is suicide. You are more likely to succeed if you spread your chips around.

[stretchstretch]

Id rather get Adrian Gonzalez anyway

 

 

I'd rather get as many players like Prince who come to the plate with that "F**k Y**, I'm gonna make you pay!!" look on their face each and every at bat. I think chemistry, attitude, and character trump all this piecing together of baseball card statistics.

 

This team has been missing that swagger for a couple seasons, TCQ had it last year, Dye in past seasons had it, AJ has it most of the time, and it's an x-factor I love to seeing in players like Beckett, Papelbon, Tori Hunter, Fielder, Cuddyer....it's contagious confidence that I think "plagues" winning teams....

 

[son of a rude]

I'd rather get as many players like Prince who come to the plate with that "F**k Y**, I'm gonna make you pay!!" look on their face each and every at bat. I think chemistry, attitude, and character trump all this piecing together of baseball card statistics.

 

This team has been missing that swagger for a couple seasons, TCQ had it last year, Dye in past seasons had it, AJ has it most of the time, and it's an x-factor I love to seeing in players like Beckett, Papelbon, Tori Hunter, Fielder, Cuddyer....it's contagious confidence that I think "plagues" winning teams....

I think stats trump chemistry, attitude, and character. thats just me though. The 1977 yankees had pretty bad chemistry and attitude.

[bigruss]

I'd rather get as many players like Prince who come to the plate with that "F**k Y**, I'm gonna make you pay!!" look on their face each and every at bat. I think chemistry, attitude, and character trump all this piecing together of baseball card statistics.

 

This team has been missing that swagger for a couple seasons, TCQ had it last year, Dye in past seasons had it, AJ has it most of the time, and it's an x-factor I love to seeing in players like Beckett, Papelbon, Tori Hunter, Fielder, Cuddyer....it's contagious confidence that I think "plagues" winning teams....

Its one thing to have talent and heart, its another to only have heart.

 

There arent to many players out there who truly are competitive and talented, atleast ones that you can acquire in FA or in a respectable trade.

[bigruss]

I think stats trump chemistry, attitude, and character. thats just me though. The 1977 yankees had pretty bad chemistry and attitude.

Winning builds chemistry.

[kitekrazy]

May I suggest never to read another Rogers article again.

 

If they ever decide to have a Dumbass Journalist Hall of Fame- he's a first ballot.

 

It seems most of the Chicago sports journalists like to reinvent "stupid" on a daily basis.

[VAfan]

I still don't get why so many guys here talk about trading a ton of talent and depth for Fielder or Gonzalez. Why not try to improve the club without sending out players?

 

Matt Holliday has nearly the same value as Prince Fielder (5.4 WAR v. 6.2 WAR) and Adrian Gonzalez (6.4 WAR) but would cost only money -- probably less than it would cost to extend Fielder beyond his current deal. Granted, Holliday is a righty, whereas we need some lefty power. But still, doesn't it make sense to add some valuable bats without weakening out starting rotation, bullpen, or depth?

[SoxAce]

I still don't get why so many guys here talk about trading a ton of talent and depth for Fielder or Gonzalez. Why not try to improve the club without sending out players?

 

Matt Holliday has nearly the same value as Prince Fielder (5.4 WAR v. 6.2 WAR) and Adrian Gonzalez (6.4 WAR) but would cost only money -- probably less than it would cost to extend Fielder beyond his current deal. Granted, Holliday is a righty, whereas we need some lefty power. But still, doesn't it make sense to add some valuable bats without weakening out starting rotation, bullpen, or depth?

 

For the 1,032,409,354th time on this board, Matt Holliday=Bora$. It's not going to happen. Plus I'm sure the Cardinals will go balls out to try and resign this guy. They gave up a very good prospect (well they all were, but one was more known to many) to net him, and don't want the C.C. effect happening to them.

Edited October 5, 2009 by SoxAce

[ThunderBolt]

You know what would be both badass and implausible? Doing a Fielder trade with Danks in it, and then trading Paulie for Homer Bailey and Chris Heisey. Sadly, this is both unrealistic and rendered impossible by Joey Votto.

[SoxAce]

You know what would be both badass and implausible? Doing a Fielder trade with Danks in it, and then trading Paulie for Homer Bailey and Chris Heisey. Sadly, this is both unrealistic and rendered impossible by Joey Votto.

 

I thought the same thing, then they drafted Yonder Alonso....

[ThunderBolt]

I thought the same thing, then they drafted Yonder Alonso....

KW could pitch a Votto move to left, but it's something of a stretch.