WCSox Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Oct 7, 2009 -> 01:42 PM) You just described Milton Bradley. LOL, I guess that I did. But at least Bradley is physically capable of playing somewhere other than 1B in the NL. QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Oct 7, 2009 -> 01:45 PM) It's all about the market though. As a free agent, all youve gotta find is one sucker. Milton found that in the Cubs. Milton, upon signing his contract, was coming off a lower # of ABs year than Johnson is right now. Also Milton pretty much had bigger injury history than Johnson in the prior years. If there's a team desperate enough for an LH high OBP guy.... Johnson could make a bundle. After all, Bay and Holliday are righties. Abreu is a lefty but is older. Johnson may fit the bill for someone, as Balta laid out. I still have a really tough time seeing Johnson getting what Bradley got last year. I think that guys like Johnson and Thome are looking at $6M per year range, with Johnson likely commanding a multi-year deal. Abreu probably gets more (if he doesn't hold out this time) and Figgins gets a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (WCSox @ Oct 7, 2009 -> 03:53 PM) LOL, I guess that I did. But at least Bradley is physically capable of playing somewhere other than 1B in the NL. I still have a really tough time seeing Johnson getting what Bradley got last year. I think that guys like Johnson and Thome are looking at $6M per year range, with Johnson likely commanding a multi-year deal. Abreu probably gets more (if he doesn't hold out this time) and Figgins gets a lot more. I think you're right about the contracts for Johnson and Thome. BTW you don't need to attempt to justify why Bradley got so much money but Nick Johnson won't. You won't be able to justify it anyway. Bradley's deal only happened because the Cubs are morons who love giving out horrible contracts, and they have now done that so often that they've pretty much destroyed any flexibility they could have had. According to Cot's Baseball Contracts, the Cubs had about a $140M payroll in 2009, with 50.5M combined to Bradley, Fukudome, Dempster, and Soriano. Another $33.3M went to Zambrano and Ramirez, so that's $88.8M for those 6 players, which is just barely lower than the Giants Opening Day payroll ($88.8M) and well above the Opening Day 2009 payrolls of 16!!! other Major League teams. Out of those 6 players, they esssentially got two #3 starters in Big Z and Dempster and a star 3B for 82 games. IMO the Zambrano and Ramirez contracts are defensible because Zambrano has legit No. 1 stuff and Ramirez is a stud. But Soriano is an albatross, Bradley is an albatross, Fukudome is an albatross, and each of those players could have been easily replaced by other players already on the team making far less per year. And as for Dempster, I argued all last offseason about what a bad contract that was and I said that Garland would end up as a much better deal. Garland gets $9M guaranteed including a buyout over 1 year at the age of 28 and coming off a down year to post a 4.01 ERA, 1.40 WHIP over 204IP. Dempster, at the age of 31 and coming off a career year which he had *never before even come close to replicating* gets $52M guaranteed over 4 years to post a 3.64 ERA, 1.31 WHIP over 200IP. This exactly is why the Cubs are f***ing morons and why no one need bother attempting to justify the Bradley signing. Bradley never would have gotten anything like that if the dumbass Cubs FO (one of the main culprits for the FA market spinning out of control over recent years BTW) had not given him that deal. Even though the Cubs still haven't learned from their mistakes, the other 29 teams have, and that's why Nick Johnson isn't sniffing anything close to Milton Bradley's deal. Edited October 8, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of a rude Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 nickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonn ickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnic kjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 QUOTE (son of a rude @ Oct 11, 2009 -> 11:46 PM) nickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonn ickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonni c kjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnsonnickjohnson Have another! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of a rude Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Have another! He gets me so excited. I am one of the few on the Trade AJ while his value is high and sign Nick Johnson with the salary room we make bandwagon. It is a very disliked bandwagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 QUOTE (son of a rude @ Oct 12, 2009 -> 01:26 AM) He gets me so excited. I am one of the few on the Trade AJ while his value is high and sign Nick Johnson with the salary room we make bandwagon. It is a very disliked bandwagon. I don't know if I can handle his pornstache. Apparently, you are easily excited....excitable boy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 What do people think Johnson will be signed for? He made $5.5 million last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 QUOTE (son of a rude @ Oct 12, 2009 -> 01:26 AM) He gets me so excited. I am one of the few on the Trade AJ while his value is high and sign Nick Johnson with the salary room we make bandwagon. It is a very disliked bandwagon. It's probably the right move, but just like trading Jenks last year, it would be crushed by the Loyalist opposition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Oct 12, 2009 -> 11:14 AM) It's probably the right move, but just like trading Jenks last year, it would be crushed by the Loyalist opposition This is probably a sign that you are a little too involved... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 12, 2009 -> 07:47 AM) What do people think Johnson will be signed for? He made $5.5 million last year. If anyone offers him a lot more than that amount, they can have him, with his injury history. I'd start at $4 million with an $8 million option/$1.5 million buyout. Something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 12, 2009 -> 11:24 AM) If anyone offers him a lot more than that amount, they can have him, with his injury history. I'd start at $4 million with an $8 million option/$1.5 million buyout. Something like that. He did just have his best year, and played a full season. Buying at the top worries me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 12, 2009 -> 09:30 AM) He did just have his best year, and played a full season. Buying at the top worries me. He only played 133 games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 12, 2009 -> 11:31 AM) He only played 133 games? Don't ask me why, but I was looking at 2006 numbers. Looking at his last two years, why the heck is everyone so obsessed with this guy? He hit eight homers in 450 Abs last year. The only good thing is that he takes some walks. He sounds like Nick Swisher to me. I'd much rather have a Thome for the same price range who at least can go deep, especially if you are talking about a guy that you are afraid to play in the field because he is injury prone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of a rude Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Don't ask me why, but I was looking at 2006 numbers. Looking at his last two years, why the heck is everyone so obsessed with this guy? He hit eight homers in 450 Abs last year. The only good thing is that he takes some walks. He sounds like Nick Swisher to me. I'd much rather have a Thome for the same price range who at least can go deep, especially if you are talking about a guy that you are afraid to play in the field because he is injury prone. He consistently has an OPS over .800 and he averages an OBP over .400. Averaging an OBP over .400.... That is DAMN good. Put him in the 2 hole in front of Beckham and our offense would be a TON better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 QUOTE (son of a rude @ Oct 12, 2009 -> 11:45 AM) He consistently has an OPS over .800 and he averages an OBP over .400. Averaging an OBP over .400.... That is DAMN good. Put him in the 2 hole in front of Beckham and our offense would be a TON better. He also consistently averages no power and under a 100 games a year. Pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 12, 2009 -> 09:54 AM) He also consistently averages no power and under a 100 games a year. Pass. But he's also never been tried at DH, and some of his injuries (i.e. the broken leg, the broken cheekbone) were things that he suffered while playing the field. (Again, if I were in KW's chair, I wouldn't even make the offer unless the team doctors approved it first) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of a rude Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 He also consistently averages no power and under a 100 games a year. Pass. His career average OPS is higher than the OPS of everybody on the team last year... I don't see how you can't like that. And the reason people are willing to give him a shot even with his injury history is because he would be a DH and most people trust that Herm would help the injury situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 QUOTE (son of a rude @ Oct 12, 2009 -> 11:59 AM) His career average OPS is higher than the OPS of everybody on the team last year... I don't see how you can't like that. And the reason people are willing to give him a shot even with his injury history is because he would be a DH and most people trust that Herm would help the injury situation. So why not trust Herm with Jim Thome, who plays way more games a year than Johnson does on average, and is still putting up better OPS's than Johnson? Here is a hint, Johnson has not had a higher OPS than Big Jim in any of the last three seasons in a side by side comparison. He has also played more games than Johnson, except for last year, when he rotted on the bench in LA for a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 12, 2009 -> 10:06 AM) So why not trust Herm with Jim Thome, who plays way more games a year than Johnson does on average, and is still putting up better OPS's than Johnson? Here is a hint, Johnson has not had a higher OPS than Big Jim in any of the last three seasons in a side by side comparison. He has also played more games than Johnson, except for last year, when he rotted on the bench in LA for a month. Big Jim is 39 and Johnson is 31. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of a rude Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 So why not trust Herm with Jim Thome, who plays way more games a year than Johnson does on average, and is still putting up better OPS's than Johnson? Here is a hint, Johnson has not had a higher OPS than Big Jim in any of the last three seasons in a side by side comparison. He has also played more games than Johnson, except for last year, when he rotted on the bench in LA for a month. I would take Jim Thome back if we couldn't get Johnson. There are a couple reasons I would rather have Johnson though. Thome's OPS has been on the decline the past few years. I fear that he may be on the physical decline. It seemed like he had a lot of trouble catching up to fastballs this year. Plus with Johnson's OBP, I would love to see him in the 2 hole in front of Beckham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 12, 2009 -> 10:07 AM) Big Jim is 39 and Johnson is 31. That may make JT more affordable than NJ on the FA market. We also have a significant advantage in re-signing JT, not unlike LAA's advantage in re-signing Abreu. Edited October 12, 2009 by WCSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 12, 2009 -> 12:07 PM) Big Jim is 39 and Johnson is 31. We are talking about a year here. This isn't for good either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 QUOTE (son of a rude @ Oct 12, 2009 -> 12:10 PM) I would take Jim Thome back if we couldn't get Johnson. There are a couple reasons I would rather have Johnson though. Thome's OPS has been on the decline the past few years. I fear that he may be on the physical decline. It seemed like he had a lot of trouble catching up to fastballs this year. Plus with Johnson's OBP, I would love to see him in the 2 hole in front of Beckham. So has Nick Johnson's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I'm not a big Nick Johnson fan myself. What would you think if KW dipped into that Diamondback well again and went after Conor Jackson? He could platoon with Kotsay (if he comes back) and could be the eventual replacement for Paulie after next year. He's not a stellar defensive player by any means which would make an attractive younger DH. The DBags will have to tender him a contract by mid-December (if they do, he likely will make something close to $2.5 million)...or Jackson will become a free agent. Kind of goes with the going young motif. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of a rude Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 So has Nick Johnson's. Johnson's OPS last year was about career average. His OPS this year was about 15 points less than career average. You can see that through his career his OPS fluctuated between .800-.900 usually. Thome's OPS is over 100 points less than his career average. Thome's looks a lot more like physical decline than Johnson's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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