Treasure or Trash?

[scenario]

Rosenberg's column today... funny and quite good.

 

 

My White Sox treasure-him-or-trash-him list for next year:

 

Jake Peavy -- Your table is ready. . . .

 

Mark Buehrle -- Always and forever. . . .

 

John Danks -- Connect the dots: Pitching faster = pitching better = $$$$. . . .

 

Gavin Floyd -- If Bert Blyleven wasn’t a Twinkie guy, he’d be the perfect tutor for your curveball. Whatever, if you ever figure out consistent control, you’d be a no-hit threat once you take the mound instead once a month. . . .

 

Freddy Garcia -- The Sox picked up his option, but fans now sweat more than he does. . . .

 

Daniel Hudson -- The Miss America runner-up: If for any reason Freddy Garcia cannot fulfill his duties . . .

 

Bobby Jenks -- I’d still take him as my closer. . . .

 

Matt Thornton -- Love him in the eighth inning, not convinced about him in the ninth. . . .

 

D.J. Carrasco -- Any role. Any inning. Any questions? . . .

 

Carlos Torres -- Yawn. . . .

 

Scott Linebrink -- Kill me now. . . .

 

Octavio Dotel -- Spanish for Scott Linebrink. . . .

 

Tony Pena -- Too often looks like Dotel on training wheels. . . .

 

Scott Podsednik - What does it say when a guy who’s bad on defense and worse as a baserunner considering his speed is the best this team can do at leadoff? . . .

 

Gordon Beckham -- The Sox found their Jeter. . . .

 

Alex Rios -- He made Brian Anderson look like Albert Pujols, which makes you wonder if he cycled off steroids or is just a party animal hindered by baseball’s amphetamine ban that prevents players from recovering chemically from the night before. . . .

 

Paul Konerko -- A pro, a leader, a consistent rebound year. But if he waives his no-trade clause, tell him to leave his “C’’ in Beckham’s locker on the way out. . . .

 

Carlos Quentin -- More homers and RBIs, less Blue Cross and Blue Shield. . . .

 

Alexei Ramirez -- The lights are on, but nobody’s home. . . .

 

Jermaine Dye -- Exactly the type of pro you want in your clubhouse, but sorry, it’s over when you’re going to be 36 and you’re 0-for-after-the-All-Star-break. . . .

 

A.J. Pierzynski -- Batted all over the lineup and still hit .300, but really, shouldn’t he have more RBIs than Miguel Olivo? And is it every pitcher’s fault he can’t throw out anybody? . . .

 

Chris Getz -- I didn’t appreciate him as much until he came back from injury. . . .

 

Josh Fields -- If he could hit, Beckham could move to short, and Ramirez could be traded for a leadoff hitter. . . .

 

Jayson Nix -- Nice power, nice versatility, nice bench player. . . .

 

Brent Lillibridge -- You still here? . . .

 

Dewayne Wise -- Can’t hit, but he’s one of the few guys who can catch the ball. . . .

 

Mark Kotsay -- Infield, outfield, offense, defense, love the guy’s contributions. . . .

 

Tyler Flowers -- Not yet. . . .

 

Ramon Castro -- Someone has to catch on Sundays. . . .

 

Ozzie Guillen -- At least one manager in town is honest and cares. . . .

 

Kenny Williams -- It might be something good (Peavy) or it might be something bad (Rios), but it will be something big, and that works for me. . . .

[ThunderBolt]

It's ridculious how bad a rap Dotel gets. Yeah, he walked too many people, but that K rate is nothing to scoff at.

[iamshack]

It's ridculious how bad a rap Dotel gets. Yeah, he walked too many people, but that K rate is nothing to scoff at.

 

I agree. He is certainly bad at times. But he is nowhere near the level of Linebrink...

[Kalapse]

Since he joined the Sox Matt Thornton has had 10 save opportunities that involved him pitching in the 9th inning (the other 17 took place between the 6th and the 8th). He's only started the 9th twice, both of those were in September of this year and he allowed 1 baserunner (a BB to Carlos Guillen) in those 2 innings of work while K'ing 4. Five other times his outing began in the 8th and continued into the 9th (not an easy situation for any closer), he blew only 1 of these saves and successfully closed out the other 4. In the 5 outings he allowed a total of 8 baserunners (only 1 BB) in 7.1 innings of work (1.09 WHIP) while striking out an absurd 13 batters, that's a 15.96 K/9. The other 3 save opps were 1/3 of an inning each, he picked up the save in each.

 

So since '06 Thornton has had 7 save opportunities in which he went at least an inning of work and pitched into the 9th. This is what his numbers look like in those 7 games:

 

9.1 IP, 0.96 WHIP, 2.89 ERA, 17 K, 2 BB, 6/7 SV/SVO

 

He's had almost no chance to prove himself in the closer's role but the little work he's gotten in those situations most common to that of a closer he's pitched very well.

[Kalapse]

It's ridculious how bad a rap Dotel gets. Yeah, he walked too many people, but that K rate is nothing to scoff at.

Dotel finished the year with a 0.78 WPA (Win Percentage Added) meaning in the end he helped more than he hurt. Just for reference Linebrink finished with a -1.92, Thornton a 3.21 and Jenks a 0.58

[thedoctor]

pretty positive assessment from a normally snarky guy on a team that underachieved.

 

speaks to the good vibes folks have going into next year, i'd imagine.

[southsider2k5]

Since he joined the Sox Matt Thornton has had 10 save opportunities that involved him pitching in the 9th inning (the other 17 took place between the 6th and the 8th). He's only started the 9th twice, both of those were in September of this year and he allowed 1 baserunner (a BB to Carlos Guillen) in those 2 innings of work while K'ing 4. Five other times his outing began in the 8th and continued into the 9th (not an easy situation for any closer), he blew only 1 of these saves and successfully closed out the other 4. In the 5 outings he allowed a total of 8 baserunners (only 1 BB) in 7.1 innings of work (1.09 WHIP) while striking out an absurd 13 batters, that's a 15.96 K/9. The other 3 save opps were 1/3 of an inning each, he picked up the save in each.

 

So since '06 Thornton has had 7 save opportunities in which he went at least an inning of work and pitched into the 9th. This is what his numbers look like in those 7 games:

 

9.1 IP, 0.96 WHIP, 2.89 ERA, 17 K, 2 BB, 6/7 SV/SVO

 

He's had almost no chance to prove himself in the closers role but the little work he's gotten in those situations most common to that of a closer he's pitched very well.

 

Like I said before, I am not afraid of Matt in the ninth, I am afraid who takes over the 6th, 7th, and 8th.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Like I said before, I am not afraid of Matt in the ninth, I am afraid who takes over the 6th, 7th, and 8th.

Closer: Thornton

8th inning: Linebrink usually has a very good first half before blowing up. Hudson will be a stud for a setup man if he's still here and none of the starting 5 get hurt. When Linebrink falls apart again (sometime in July), Hudson can step in and take over.

7th inning: We need Kenny to pick up a good veteran lefty here. In the first half Hudson can take this from the right side assuming Linebrink starts off well again. In the second we'll need someone else to step up. And that man is???

6th inning: Lefty specialist (Williams again?) and Pena can handle righty specialist duties.

5th inning and earlier: Carrasco. Also, Carrasco will probably appear in the 6th a lot, since the depth of our starting staff is going to mean a hell of a lot less IP for him than he had this year with the 4th and 5th rotation spots constantly up in the air.

 

Assuming we still have Hudson, the biggest addition we'd need to make is a solid veteran lefty reliever to help handle the 7th inning duties. Another righty would be nice, but we do have quite a few in-house options as well. I'd love to *not* count on Linebrink having another good first half, but because of his salary we'll pretty much have to.

[qwerty]

I find it humorous that soxtalk (knightni) sponsored linebrink's baseball reference page. Ew.

[BigEdWalsh]

"Josh Fields -- Ifhe could hit, Beckham could move to short, and Ramirez could be traded for a leadoff hitter. . . ."

 

Big if.

 

 

 

[greg775]

I think I agreed with every one of his comments.

Great great stuff.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I find it humorous that soxtalk (knightni) sponsored linebrink's baseball reference page. Ew.

Wow, that's bad.

 

I guess it's smart for growing the site though. You look at his second half numbers, they make you feel like screaming, and whaddayaknow, here's a link to SoxTalk where you can join a thread that has others already b****ing about it.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[knightni]

I find it humorous that soxtalk (knightni) sponsored linebrink's baseball reference page. Ew.

To be fair, he wasn't bad in March.

[Kyyle23]

A roid/amphetamine jab at Rios, nice

[southsider2k5]

Closer: Thornton

8th inning: Linebrink usually has a very good first half before blowing up. Hudson will be a stud for a setup man if he's still here and none of the starting 5 get hurt. When Linebrink falls apart again (sometime in July), Hudson can step in and take over.

7th inning: We need Kenny to pick up a good veteran lefty here. In the first half Hudson can take this from the right side assuming Linebrink starts off well again. In the second we'll need someone else to step up. And that man is???

6th inning: Lefty specialist (Williams again?) and Pena can handle righty specialist duties.

5th inning and earlier: Carrasco. Also, Carrasco will probably appear in the 6th a lot, since the depth of our starting staff is going to mean a hell of a lot less IP for him than he had this year with the 4th and 5th rotation spots constantly up in the air.

 

Assuming we still have Hudson, the biggest addition we'd need to make is a solid veteran lefty reliever to help handle the 7th inning duties. Another righty would be nice, but we do have quite a few in-house options as well. I'd love to *not* count on Linebrink having another good first half, but because of his salary we'll pretty much have to.

 

So pretty much we have to find a whole new bullpen in between Carrasco and Thornton if we trade Jenks. Yeah, that doesn't help make the case.

[NorthSideSox72]

I personally think that Dotel could be better, if we had a manager that recognized what seems to me to be an obvious trend. With Dotel, 9 times out of 10, you can tell from Batter #1 what he's going to be like that day. If he looks bad against that first batter, pull him. If you are willing to do that, Dotel's overall results would be far better than they have been.

 

I personally am not ready to give up on Jenks yet either. As I've pointed out numerous times, look at his stats month-over-month - he isn't fading, his best month was in August. I don't think its an injury thing. I think he needs better conditioning, and I think he had a lousy year. Happens to most relievers.

 

[Texsox]

A couple laughs, a couple sighs. It's tough to screw up too much with one liners. The fan in me circa 1980 would look at this line up and think about 2010. The K-Dubya era fan in me thinks, why bother? There's going to be some major changes in a third place team.

[cornball]

I think I agreed with every one of his comments.

Great great stuff.

 

 

I can't believe it either, but I agreed with everything too.

[Steve9347]

I am so sick of people trashing Dotel, who is a fine reliever, however I have never agreed more at any time with anything someone has put in print than the following.

 

Scott Linebrink -- Kill me now. . . .

[elrockinMT]

Dotel finished the year with a 0.78 WPA (Win Percentage Added) meaning in the end he helped more than he hurt. Just for reference Linebrink finished with a -1.92, Thornton a 3.21 and Jenks a 0.58

 

 

I would keep Dotel over Linebrink at this point. I don't know of many options out there and I am not convinced Hudson or Torres are ready ready. Both obvuiously have promise, but it's not a good idea to rush young pitchers.

[Steve9347]

I would keep Dotel over Linebrink at this point.

Well.......................... duh!

[Buehrle>Wood]

I would keep Dotel over Linebrink at this point.

That's not really a choice.

[BFirebird]

Since he joined the Sox Matt Thornton has had 10 save opportunities that involved him pitching in the 9th inning (the other 17 took place between the 6th and the 8th). He's only started the 9th twice, both of those were in September of this year and he allowed 1 baserunner (a BB to Carlos Guillen) in those 2 innings of work while K'ing 4. Five other times his outing began in the 8th and continued into the 9th (not an easy situation for any closer), he blew only 1 of these saves and successfully closed out the other 4. In the 5 outings he allowed a total of 8 baserunners (only 1 BB) in 7.1 innings of work (1.09 WHIP) while striking out an absurd 13 batters, that's a 15.96 K/9. The other 3 save opps were 1/3 of an inning each, he picked up the save in each.

 

So since '06 Thornton has had 7 save opportunities in which he went at least an inning of work and pitched into the 9th. This is what his numbers look like in those 7 games:

 

9.1 IP, 0.96 WHIP, 2.89 ERA, 17 K, 2 BB, 6/7 SV/SVO

 

He's had almost no chance to prove himself in the closers role but the little work he's gotten in those situations most common to that of a closer he's pitched very well.

 

I love when you analyze.

[witesoxfan]

"Josh Fields -- Ifhe could hit, Beckham could move to short, and Ramirez could be traded for a leadoff hitter. . . ."

 

Big if.

 

yeah that "if" has sailed its course and is long gone

[WCSox]

So pretty much we have to find a whole new bullpen in between Carrasco and Thornton if we trade Jenks. Yeah, that doesn't help make the case.

 

Yeah, I agree with this. The prospect of our 7th and 8th inning options bring T-Pain and Linebrink next year is downright scary. Yeesh.

 

Give Bobby a one-year deal and see how things shake out over the fist half of next year. If he bounces back and the Sox play well, all is good. If he continues to decline, DFA him and move Thronton into the closer spot. If he pitches well but the Sox are down in the dumps in July, trade him for a couple of bullpen arms.