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**Official Phillies vs. Dodgers Thread**


knightni

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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 16, 2009 -> 10:07 AM)
Bad loss by the Dodgers. There pen didn't hold up and Kershaw was a mess.

 

Why in the heck did Torre leave Kershaw in to face Utley and Howard, after he walked Hamels and was having obviously difficulty throwing strikes? Didn't the Dodgers have another LHP available?

 

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QUOTE (WCSox @ Oct 16, 2009 -> 12:13 PM)
Why in the heck did Torre leave Kershaw in to face Utley and Howard, after he walked Hamels and was having obviously difficulty throwing strikes? Didn't the Dodgers have another LHP available?

 

 

They mentioned that Kershaw was the second batter up in the following inning. Torre was hoping Kershaw could finish the inning, because if he didnt finish the inning, Torre would of had to do one of two things:

 

1. let the reliever that replaced Kershaw bat in the second spot of the next inning(after giving up the lead and being put in a situation where you need to score runs)

 

2. Blow 2 relievers in 1 inning by putting in a pinch hitter in the bottom of the 5th in the pitchers spot.

 

Torre was praying that Kershaw would get out of it so he could save his bullpen and bench, and he got burned

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 16, 2009 -> 10:44 AM)
Really, Pedro in game 2 for the Phitins'? I figured they'd throw out Lee, he's on normal rest. I guess putting him in game 3 lines him up to pitch game 7 also.

 

Lee pitched on Monday, so he'd only be on 3 days rest if he pitched today

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 16, 2009 -> 10:17 AM)
They mentioned that Kershaw was the second batter up in the following inning. Torre was hoping Kershaw could finish the inning, because if he didnt finish the inning, Torre would of had to do one of two things:

 

1. let the reliever that replaced Kershaw bat in the second spot of the next inning(after giving up the lead and being put in a situation where you need to score runs)

 

2. Blow 2 relievers in 1 inning by putting in a pinch hitter in the bottom of the 5th in the pitchers spot.

 

I understand the logic, but it applies much better to the top of the 7th than the top of the 5th. They were only down by two when it was clear that Kershaw was struggling. What worse, having your pitcher bat in the bottom of the 5th or facing the heart of the Phillies lineup with a guy who was clearly struggling to throw the ball over the plate?

 

Torre was praying that Kershaw would get out of it so he could save his bullpen and bench, and he got burned

 

That was a monumentally-dumb decision by Torre. Not to mention very surprising, as I consider Torre one of the best in the game. That's the kind of gamble that you make with somebody like Buehrle, not a nervous rookie who just gave up a three-run homer, walked the opposing pitcher, and threw three wild pitches. Torre could've at least mitigated the damage by bringing in a LOOGY to face Utley and Howard.

Edited by WCSox
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QUOTE (WCSox @ Oct 16, 2009 -> 01:57 PM)
I understand the logic, but it applies much better to the top of the 7th than the top of the 5th. They were only down by two when it was clear that Kershaw was struggling. What worse, having your pitcher bat in the bottom of the 5th or facing the heart of the Phillies lineup with a guy who was clearly struggling to throw the ball over the plate?

 

 

 

That was a monumentally-dumb decision by Torre. Not to mention very surprising, as I consider Torre one of the best in the game. That's the kind of gamble that you make with somebody like Buehrle, not a nervous rookie who gave up a three-run homer, walked the opposing pitcher, and threw three wild pitches. Torre could've at least mitigated the damage by bringing in a LOOGY to face Utley and Howard.

 

 

Torre is old school, he wants his pitchers to work through it. Even th broadcasters(Darling?) were saying that this is a "grow up" moment that Torre likes to employ.

 

I wouldnt say monumentally dumb either. Kershaw had 2 outs and Howard was down 0-2(he also had Utley on the ropes with 2 outs and let him off the hook) and he gave him a pitch to turn on and Howard did. They went down 5-1 at that point and lost 8-6, so it wasnt as if the bullpen could hold off the Phillies either at that point.

 

It wasnt Torre's greatest management job, but I could see what he wanted to do.

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 16, 2009 -> 12:02 PM)
Torre is old school, he wants his pitchers to work through it. Even th broadcasters(Darling?) were saying that this is a "grow up" moment that Torre likes to employ.

 

I wouldnt say monumentally dumb either. Kershaw had 2 outs and Howard was down 0-2(he also had Utley on the ropes with 2 outs and let him off the hook) and he gave him a pitch to turn on and Howard did. They went down 5-1 at that point and lost 8-6, so it wasnt as if the bullpen could hold off the Phillies either at that point.

 

It wasnt Torre's greatest management job, but I could see what he wanted to do.

 

We might have to agree to disagree on this, but I don't think that the NLCS is the time for "confidence-building." If a rookie gives up a three-run jack, walks the opposing pitcher, and sends three balls to the backstop in a playoff game, you take him out. Winning is priority #1 at that point. Torre could've given Kershaw a "don't worry about it, you're still my guy" pat on the back in the dugout afterwards.

 

If somebody could've gotten Howard or Utley out, Manny's jack would've tied the game and swung the momentum back.

 

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If Hamels were pitching like he was last year and Lidge was pitching like he was last year, I'd think the Phillies had a shot against the Yankees. But really, aside from Lee, they just aren't pitching well enough right now for them to take the Yankees out with anything other than a legit miracle.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 21, 2009 -> 07:45 PM)
If Hamels were pitching like he was last year and Lidge was pitching like he was last year, I'd think the Phillies had a shot against the Yankees. But really, aside from Lee, they just aren't pitching well enough right now for them to take the Yankees out with anything other than a legit miracle.

 

I still think that the Phillies win one or two games (Phillies are hitting well, Lee will probably pitch twice, and Burnett/Pettitte are vulnerable), but agree that the Yankees should be heavily favored.

 

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QUOTE (WCSox @ Oct 22, 2009 -> 09:34 AM)
I still think that the Phillies win one or two games (Phillies are hitting well, Lee will probably pitch twice, and Burnett/Pettitte are vulnerable), but agree that the Yankees should be heavily favored.

The Phillies absolutely MUST schedule Lee to pitch games 1 4 and 7.

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