chisoxfan09 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I don't see a deal like this getting done without Gordo. I hear ya but like the multitude I can't see anyone loyal to this org advocating trading one of the cornerstones of our franchise's future, mainly Gordo. But starting with Flowers/Huddie is a serious package I would say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Oct 21, 2009 -> 11:57 AM) I hear ya but like the multitude I can't see anyone loyal to this org advocating trading one of the cornerstones of our franchise's future, mainly Gordo. But starting with Flowers/Huddie is a serious package I would say. It's a serious package but it's not one that other teams (i.e. Boston, NY) couldn't beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 21, 2009 -> 01:48 PM) I don't see a deal like this getting done without Gordo. Maybe not. All I'm saying is that we should try. And I wouldn't give them Beckham, CQ, Floyd, or Danks. They could take Alexei if they absolutely had to, but they'd have to give us Cabrera (why didn't the Rockies protect him?) in the process. They could have Getz though, and anyone on the farm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Maybe not. All I'm saying is that we should try. And I wouldn't give them Beckham, CQ, Floyd, or Danks. They could take Alexei if they absolutely had to, but they'd have to give us Cabrera (why didn't the Rockies protect him?) in the process. They could have Getz though, and anyone on the farm. Who on the farm or waiting in the wings would replace Getz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 21, 2009 -> 02:02 PM) It's a serious package but it's not one that other teams (i.e. Boston, NY) couldn't beat. We traded Javy to the Braves because the Braves couldn't land Peavy. Javy was their fallback plan. However, Flowers was one of the supposed centerpieces during the Braves talks for Peavy. We all hear/read the hype around the Yankees and Red Sox prospects, and they have some very good ones, but if the Padres people are in love with Tyler Flowers and Dayan Viciedo for example, and we're willing to offer those players, then none of that other stuff matters. All we can do is put an offer out there and see what happens. But it's not like teams make deals based upon rankings in publications such as Baseball America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 21, 2009 -> 02:02 PM) It's a serious package but it's not one that other teams (i.e. Boston, NY) couldn't beat. Naw they couldn't touch this one with a 10 foot pole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Oct 21, 2009 -> 02:05 PM) Who on the farm or waiting in the wings would replace Getz? Possibly Retherford if we kept him. But we'd probably hit the trade or free agent market first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Does anyone think bashing/raking the ball in the AFL counts to increase the value of a prospect? I have heard mostly that the thin air makes the ball tend to fly so while the experience is good the value gained is not as good as playing time say in AA/AAA. I ask because if Viciedo rakes does this make him a more valued trading chip since we are on the subject of dangling him in a package for Agon. Also the Baron's field seems to be similar to Petco in that it s not hitter friendly so would that possible fact turn off the Padres to including Viciedo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Oct 21, 2009 -> 02:13 PM) Does anyone think bashing/raking the ball in the AFL counts to increase the value of a prospect? I have heard mostly that the thin air makes the ball tend to fly so while the experience is good the value gained is not as good as playing time say in AA/AAA. I ask because if Viciedo rakes does this make him a more valued trading chip since we are on the subject of dangling him in a package for Agon. Also the Baron's field seems to be similar to Petco in that it s not hitter friendly so would that possible fact turn off the Padres to including Viciedo? Anywhere a hitter performs he's going to look good. The AFL is huge because tons of scouts and high-ranking baseball execs watch the games. I don't think anyone comes into the AFL as a mediocre prospect and leaves a great prospect, and similarly I doubt anyone walks in a great prospect and leaves as a mediocre prospect. It just brings players more attention basically. No park will be able to contain Viciedo's power if he develops so I doubt they'd be all too concerned about that. Also, there has been no indication whatsoever that the Sox are even thinking about moving Viciedo. I'm just going on about it because I have a man-crush on Gonzalez and I realize that, if we could make that deal, Viciedo would have to go. But he'd be the last guy in our system that I'd actually want to trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Anywhere a hitter performs he's going to look good. The AFL is huge because tons of scouts and high-ranking baseball execs watch the games. I don't think anyone comes into the AFL as a mediocre prospect and leaves a great prospect, and similarly I doubt anyone walks in a great prospect and leaves as a mediocre prospect. It just brings players more attention basically. No park will be able to contain Viciedo's power if he develops so I doubt they'd be all too concerned about that. Also, there has been no indication whatsoever that the Sox are even thinking about moving Viciedo. I'm just going on about it because I have a man-crush on Gonzalez and I realize that, if we could make that deal, Viciedo would have to go. But he'd be the last guy in our system that I'd actually want to trade. Good stuff Kenny. I don't believe personally Viciedo has a future at 3rd and he will be a 1st baseman or outfield. But developing this coming year will be key to his future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Oct 21, 2009 -> 02:13 PM) Does anyone think bashing/raking the ball in the AFL counts to increase the value of a prospect? I have heard mostly that the thin air makes the ball tend to fly so while the experience is good the value gained is not as good as playing time say in AA/AAA. I ask because if Viciedo rakes does this make him a more valued trading chip since we are on the subject of dangling him in a package for Agon. Also the Baron's field seems to be similar to Petco in that it s not hitter friendly so would that possible fact turn off the Padres to including Viciedo? We seem to have a few prospects that are doing well so far in the fall League, C. J., Danks, Viciedo. I don't know whether or not this increases any trade value to other teams, but it may give some encouragement to Sox management that if they traded someone off of the major league club that these players may be a little closer to stepping in than they originally thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I just concocted this trade proposal for the forum: Flowers + Huddie + Viciedo + A Ram for Agon Sounds interesting and it fills some holes for the Pads All to include A Ram have upside and are signed cheaply (Even Viciedo compared to today's rates). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I would not feel comfortable with this. That is too many low-cost pieces for my taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I would not feel comfortable with this. That is too many low-cost pieces for my taste. Do u mean we would need to throw in one quality MLB starter to entice the Pads? Not from the starting 4 in the rotation either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Oct 21, 2009 -> 10:26 PM) Do u mean we would need to throw in one quality MLB starter to entice the Pads? Not from the starting 4 in the rotation either. No. I mean there are 3 pieces there that I have penciled into my lineup for practically nothing and I don't know that we can afford to move those with the current condition of our system. If we move all those pieces, there is not really another wave of cheap, talented players in our system coming anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 21, 2009 -> 11:31 PM) No. I mean there are 3 pieces there that I have penciled into my lineup for practically nothing and I don't know that we can afford to move those with the current condition of our system. If we move all those pieces, there is not really another wave of cheap, talented players in our system coming anytime soon. Agreed. I don't get why people are so eager to trade the farm or a cheap, young, productive player like Alexei. We will need some cost-certainty in the future if we want to keep guys like Floyd, Danks and Quentin long-term. Plus, you're only getting Gonzalez for two years. The chance of resigning him would be near impossible. Also, you're trading your starting shortstop, a setup man, and a possible backup catcher. They will make rougly $2 million next season. We already have limited funds to fill several needs for 2010 and making this trade would increase payroll and create more holes. You'd really have to roll the dice on cheap, less-talented players filling some of these holes. I don't see it working out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Agreed. I don't get why people are so eager to trade the farm or a cheap, young, productive player like Alexei. We will need some cost-certainty in the future if we want to keep guys like Floyd, Danks and Quentin long-term. Plus, you're only getting Gonzalez for two years. The chance of resigning him would be near impossible. Also, you're trading your starting shortstop, a setup man, and a possible backup catcher. They will make rougly $2 million next season. We already have limited funds to fill several needs for 2010 and making this trade would increase payroll and create more holes. You'd really have to roll the dice on cheap, less-talented players filling some of these holes. I don't see it working out. I see both of your points. Agon is a great player with upside and probably behind Pujols and Texiera in the top 3 for 1B. Just a thought, no harm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba43 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 22, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) Agreed. I don't get why people are so eager to trade the farm or a cheap, young, productive player like Alexei. We will need some cost-certainty in the future if we want to keep guys like Floyd, Danks and Quentin long-term. Plus, you're only getting Gonzalez for two years. The chance of resigning him would be near impossible. Also, you're trading your starting shortstop, a setup man, and a possible backup catcher. They will make rougly $2 million next season. We already have limited funds to fill several needs for 2010 and making this trade would increase payroll and create more holes. You'd really have to roll the dice on cheap, less-talented players filling some of these holes. I don't see it working out. Why is it impossible to resigning him ? If you offer him a extension now at say 140 mil over 7 years or the same contract Detroit gave to Cabrera should easily do it . And how is it that we can't afford him or who ever nobody on this board knows what our budget will be . I read all over this board how we have a great starting rotation maybe the best in baseball but now the sox management won't or can't spend any money to fix our offense and bullpen so they will do it ONLY by cheap low cost players . Well that doesn't make much sense . I'm not saying there going to spend like drunken sailors but to say they won't or can't spend is ridiculous . And if we can't get a player like Adrian Gonzales then why even bother to compete with the Yankees Red sox dodgers angel teams of the world . We need a impact player somewhere in our lineup if we can not put a stronger lineup out there then we had last year . Then I'm sorry we won't win the world series i don' t care if we have 7 great starters . I agree starting pitching is important but we have to score runs to or does losing 1-0, 2-1, 3-2, games appeal to you . The Twins lineup is better then our lineup is and for the most part there starting pitching pitched well to win a game or 2 against the Yankees . Anyway i for one hope we do some real moves this off season not just trying to resign Pods and going after guys like Hawpe and other bums . Take care all Edited October 22, 2009 by 1977 sox fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba43 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 In 4 to 5 years the Yankee payroll will be 300 million and from what I'm reading hear we will be around 100 mil . Its bad enough every time you read about a rumor on say yahoo or espn fox sports its always the Yankees Red Sox mets mentioned in the rumor . Like the one i read yesterday about Puljos maybe being traded and yep its the Yankees Red Sox being the 2 teams that could get him amazing . I mean where would the Yankees play him ? FOCKING DH ? THERE GOING TO SPEND 25 MIL A YEAR ON A DH ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Oct 21, 2009 -> 11:08 PM) I just concocted this trade proposal for the forum: Flowers + Huddie + Viciedo + A Ram for Agon Sounds interesting and it fills some holes for the Pads All to include A Ram have upside and are signed cheaply (Even Viciedo compared to today's rates). Who the heck plays the left side of the infield for us after that? We'd need either a SS or 3B depending on where we played Becks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Side Z Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I see Kenny doing business with Theo this offseason..........Involving Alexi and Jenks for Pappalebon and maybe Buckholtz.....Not saying thats the exact trade but those would be the principels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 QUOTE (1977 sox fan @ Oct 22, 2009 -> 05:57 AM) In 4 to 5 years the Yankee payroll will be 300 million and from what I'm reading hear we will be around 100 mil . Its bad enough every time you read about a rumor on say yahoo or espn fox sports its always the Yankees Red Sox mets mentioned in the rumor . Like the one i read yesterday about Puljos maybe being traded and yep its the Yankees Red Sox being the 2 teams that could get him amazing . I mean where would the Yankees play him ? FOCKING DH ? THERE GOING TO SPEND 25 MIL A YEAR ON A DH ? The Yankees payroll has pretty much reached a peak. I don't know the exact luxury tax numbers, but they are paying a ton and have capped their payroll at right around $200-$225 mill or so. And the Cardinals will not trade Pujols unless he tells them that there is no chance that he will resign with them and he wants to hit the market and get one of the biggest contracts in baseball history (he's probably going to get one of the biggest anyways, and considering he is the entire Cardinals franchise, they'd happily ablige). You can't believe everything you read. QUOTE (East Side Z @ Oct 22, 2009 -> 01:06 PM) I see Kenny doing business with Theo this offseason..........Involving Alexi and Jenks for Pappalebon and maybe Buckholtz.....Not saying thats the exact trade but those would be the principels. Why would the Red Sox do that when they have Jed Lowrie coming back next season and have all of the resources in the world to sign or trade for good stopgaps at SS anyways? And why would they trade for Jenks when there are 2-3 relievers that are better than Jenks already? Yeah, that's not happening, and I would hate to see Papelbon do his dumbass jig that he does every time the Red Sox win a series or make the playoffs. He's good, that doesn't replace the fact that he's a douche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Side Z Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 The Yankees payroll has pretty much reached a peak. I don't know the exact luxury tax numbers, but they are paying a ton and have capped their payroll at right around $200-$225 mill or so. And the Cardinals will not trade Pujols unless he tells them that there is no chance that he will resign with them and he wants to hit the market and get one of the biggest contracts in baseball history (he's probably going to get one of the biggest anyways, and considering he is the entire Cardinals franchise, they'd happily ablige). You can't believe everything you read. Why would the Red Sox do that when they have Jed Lowrie coming back next season and have all of the resources in the world to sign or trade for good stopgaps at SS anyways? And why would they trade for Jenks when there are 2-3 relievers that are better than Jenks already? Yeah, that's not happening, and I would hate to see Papelbon do his dumbass jig that he does every time the Red Sox win a series or make the playoffs. He's good, that doesn't replace the fact that he's a douche. First off Jed Lowrie is not the answer at SS for them or anyone else....Second they have 2-3 CLOSERS better than Jenks.Please name them and NO i dont mean guys you think can close and have never done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Side Z Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Oh and I forgot Paplebons "dumbass jig" can pitch for me any time............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Why would they trade for a mediocre closer when they already have a better one? It makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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