Apu's refusal to listen to the truth

[1549]

Apu, I couldn't help but notice your signature.

 

Your signature shows blatant disregaurd for the truth.

 

According to the President's speech, the information came from British Intelligence. And as we now know, CIA intelligence that was misreported.

 

Apu, for someone on a neverending quest to expose lies, you have in fact taken up the Left's own propoganda, founded in complete lies.

 

Stop the Hypocracy.

 

And on a random side note

 

f*** the ACLU before it f***s you

 

The ACLU will ask christians to take down crosses but makes no attempts to control how Jews, Muslims, or anyother religous groups express themselves. The ACLU claims to be "defending freedom" when in fact they are dividing freedom.

 

Equality is the key to a successful America. The ACLU does not know this.

[clujer420]

Apu, I couldn't help but notice your signature.

 

Your signature shows blatant disregaurd for the truth.

 

According to the President's speech, the information came from British Intelligence.  And as we now know, CIA intelligence that was misreported.

 

Apu, for someone on a neverending quest to expose lies, you have in fact taken up the Left's own propoganda, founded in complete lies. 

 

Stop the Hypocracy.

 

And on a random side note

 

f*** the ACLU before it f***s you

 

The ACLU will ask christians to take down crosses but makes no attempts to control how Jews, Muslims, or anyother religous groups express themselves.  The ACLU claims to be "defending freedom" when in fact they are dividing freedom. 

 

Equality is the key to a successful America.  The ACLU does not know this.

Apu has a leftist agenda?

 

[cwsox]

The ACLU will ask christians to take down crosses but makes no attempts to control how Jews, Muslims, or anyother religous groups express themselves.  The ACLU claims to be "defending freedom" when in fact they are dividing freedom. 

 

Equality is the key to a successful America.  The ACLU does not know this.

Fact is, the so called African-Iraq thing was known by the White House to bediscredited in October 2002. The inclusion of it in the State of the Union was disingenuous at best and blantentlly suborning truth for political agendas at worst in order to play a nuclear card in the State of the Union speech.

 

Given the history of this country, the statement on equality is ludicrous. Equality was not built into the US Constitution, amd the struggle for equality has been long and arduous and we have a long way yet to go.

 

Your statements on the ACLU are pure lies.

 

I am 26 years now a member of the clergy of the Christian Church and a proud 5 year member of the ACLU, wishing only I had been a member much longer.

 

However, I will agree with Hail! to the Victors Valient!

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Apu, I couldn't help but notice your signature.

 

Your signature shows blatant disregaurd for the truth.

 

According to the President's speech, the information came from British Intelligence.  And as we now know, CIA intelligence that was misreported.

 

Apu, for someone on a neverending quest to expose lies, you have in fact taken up the Left's own propoganda, founded in complete lies. 

 

Stop the Hypocracy.

 

And on a random side note

 

f*** the ACLU before it f***s you

 

The ACLU will ask christians to take down crosses but makes no attempts to control how Jews, Muslims, or anyother religous groups express themselves.  The ACLU claims to be "defending freedom" when in fact they are dividing freedom. 

 

Equality is the key to a successful America.  The ACLU does not know this.

Bush "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction."

---Funny, 1549, I haven't seen ONE WMD found yet.

 

Bush "Iraq tried to buy uranium from Africa."

---Lie! Tenet actually told them that the information was "dubious" yet Bush and Condie claim that from October to January, they never got a chance to read the memo.

 

Bush "Iraq was involved with Al Qaeda"

---Despite the fact that Osama sent out a tape calling Saddam an infidel amongst other insults, the secular state of Iraq oppresses fundamentalist Muslims. And the Atta in Iraq thing was found to be a hoax as well.

 

Bush "Iraq was involved with 9/11"

---He mentioned 9/11 and Iraq in every other goddamned sentence. A group of Saudi Arabians...training in Germany and the United States attack the US with planes...and by that I mean....WE WERE ATTACKED BY IRAQ! He even tried to prove it by fabricating that Mohammed Atta met with Iraqi intelligence in Prague.

 

Bush "Powell's speech was damning."

---This is the same speech that in a meeting the morning of, Powell was quoted in various new services as saying "I'm not reading this. This is bulls***." It was also lifted from graduate school work done in the US in 1991. Bush and Co. however didn't see any problem in using the lies of the Brits to further the cause even though they knew them to be lies.

 

So, 1549....do me a favor and blow it our your ass you sanctimonious ivory tower sitting f***. Bush lied and our soldiers died. Plain and simple.

 

And the ACLU? When the f*** did you get the fact that I am 110% behind everything they do? What have you been smoking???

 

I think some of what the ACLU does is good...like fighting the fact that there are closed tribunals for people that may or may not be terrorists, the PATRIOT Act f***ing with our civil liberties, the fact that people are being arrested without charges, searches without warrants etc. However, I do not agree with them all the time and am not even a member of the ACLU.

 

Equality is the key to a successful America. We never have been, nor are we, nor will we probably ever will be equal. Hell, America was founded on slavery! And equality of all people...that sort of sounds like somebody is ascribing to communism to me.

[Cerbaho-WG]

So, 1549....do me a favor and blow it our your ass you sanctimonious ivory tower sitting f***.

 

Sup raped?

[1549]

 

The ACLU will ask christians to take down crosses but makes no attempts to control how Jews, Muslims, or anyother religous groups express themselves.  The ACLU claims to be "defending freedom" when in fact they are dividing freedom. 

 

Equality is the key to a successful America.  The ACLU does not know this.

Fact is, the so called African-Iraq thing was known by the White House to bediscredited in October 2002. The inclusion of it in the State of the Union was disingenuous at best and blantentlly suborning truth for political agendas at worst in order to play a nuclear card in the State of the Union speech.

 

Given the history of this country, the statement on equality is ludicrous. Equality was not built into the US Constitution, amd the struggle for equality has been long and arduous and we have a long way yet to go.

 

Your statements on the ACLU are pure lies.

 

I am 26 years now a member of the clergy of the Christian Church and a proud 5 year member of the ACLU, wishing only I had been a member much longer.

 

However, I will agree with Hail! to the Victors Valient!

Read the book "The Death of Right and Wrong" written by a pro-choice, lesbian, who was once the leader of San Francisco's women's rights movement. In this she rips the hell out of the ACLU and how it shy's away from suing minority groups.

 

As for the equality thing. I didn't say it was built into our country, or that it is part of our past, or that we have achieved equality. I stated it is key to the success of our country. Meaning it is something we should all be working hard at.

[CubsSuck1]

hmmm.... in response to apu's sig, I dont think bush ever said our soldeirs would not die. I think thats a given.

[1549]

Apu, I couldn't help but notice your signature.

 

Your signature shows blatant disregaurd for the truth.

 

According to the President's speech, the information came from British Intelligence.  And as we now know, CIA intelligence that was misreported.

 

Apu, for someone on a neverending quest to expose lies, you have in fact taken up the Left's own propoganda, founded in complete lies. 

 

Stop the Hypocracy.

 

And on a random side note

 

f*** the ACLU before it f***s you

 

The ACLU will ask christians to take down crosses but makes no attempts to control how Jews, Muslims, or anyother religous groups express themselves.  The ACLU claims to be "defending freedom" when in fact they are dividing freedom. 

 

Equality is the key to a successful America.  The ACLU does not know this.

Bush "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction."

---Funny, 1549, I haven't seen ONE WMD found yet.

 

Bush "Iraq tried to buy uranium from Africa."

---Lie! Tenet actually told them that the information was "dubious" yet Bush and Condie claim that from October to January, they never got a chance to read the memo.

 

Bush "Iraq was involved with Al Qaeda"

---Despite the fact that Osama sent out a tape calling Saddam an infidel amongst other insults, the secular state of Iraq oppresses fundamentalist Muslims. And the Atta in Iraq thing was found to be a hoax as well.

 

Bush "Iraq was involved with 9/11"

---He mentioned 9/11 and Iraq in every other goddamned sentence. A group of Saudi Arabians...training in Germany and the United States attack the US with planes...and by that I mean....WE WERE ATTACKED BY IRAQ! He even tried to prove it by fabricating that Mohammed Atta met with Iraqi intelligence in Prague.

 

Bush "Powell's speech was damning."

---This is the same speech that in a meeting the morning of, Powell was quoted in various new services as saying "I'm not reading this. This is bulls***." It was also lifted from graduate school work done in the US in 1991. Bush and Co. however didn't see any problem in using the lies of the Brits to further the cause even though they knew them to be lies.

 

So, 1549....do me a favor and blow it our your ass you sanctimonious ivory tower sitting f***. Bush lied and our soldiers died. Plain and simple.

 

And the ACLU? When the f*** did you get the fact that I am 110% behind everything they do? What have you been smoking???

 

I think some of what the ACLU does is good...like fighting the fact that there are closed tribunals for people that may or may not be terrorists, the PATRIOT Act f***ing with our civil liberties, the fact that people are being arrested without charges, searches without warrants etc. However, I do not agree with them all the time and am not even a member of the ACLU.

 

Equality is the key to a successful America. We never have been, nor are we, nor will we probably ever will be equal. Hell, America was founded on slavery! And equality of all people...that sort of sounds like somebody is ascribing to communism to me.

Never said that you supported the ACLU. The ACLU was a seperate statement, and merely my own thoughts of the group. I was not criticizing you views when I spoke of the ACLU.

 

I think you hate our government for the sake of hating it. My political views differ from CW's, but I see where he is coming from. With you though, nothing makes sense. You don't like the fact that our shoes are made by little kids in Asia, and you want every single nike employee to be out of a job. But you turn you cheek to the thousands killed in Iraq.

 

your puzzling anti-corporation, anti-government views seem to show total disregard to the wealth of this nation and the people in it. In fact if it weren't for the system we currently live in, you would not have the oppurtunity to grow up in middle class (which I will assume you are b/c you go to college and have internet access, though you could be a multi-millionaire too for all I know).

 

If we lived in a s***ty system, then I would say, we need changes. But we live in the best system that this world has to offer at the moment.

 

Not that our system doesn't have its flaws, but you can't blame things like racism on the way our government is set up. If we lived in a socialist society, people that our prejudiced towards others would not change there mind.

Only time can do that. And each decade America is becoming a more cultural place.

 

So you can blow it out your ass. The system we live in is the greatest the world has seen now quit your b**** ass whining

 

Thank you for allowing me to get that off of my chest

[clujer420]

 

The ACLU will ask christians to take down crosses but makes no attempts to control how Jews, Muslims, or anyother religous groups express themselves.  The ACLU claims to be "defending freedom" when in fact they are dividing freedom. 

 

Equality is the key to a successful America.  The ACLU does not know this.

Fact is, the so called African-Iraq thing was known by the White House to bediscredited in October 2002. The inclusion of it in the State of the Union was disingenuous at best and blantentlly suborning truth for political agendas at worst in order to play a nuclear card in the State of the Union speech.

 

Given the history of this country, the statement on equality is ludicrous. Equality was not built into the US Constitution, amd the struggle for equality has been long and arduous and we have a long way yet to go.

 

Your statements on the ACLU are pure lies.

 

I am 26 years now a member of the clergy of the Christian Church and a proud 5 year member of the ACLU, wishing only I had been a member much longer.

 

However, I will agree with Hail! to the Victors Valient!

What do the ACLU, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton all have in common?

 

Answer -- all 3 pretend to be "for the people", when in reality they are only out to serve their own needs and fulfill their own agendas.

[southsider2k5]

 

The ACLU will ask christians to take down crosses but makes no attempts to control how Jews, Muslims, or anyother religous groups express themselves.  The ACLU claims to be "defending freedom" when in fact they are dividing freedom. 

 

Equality is the key to a successful America.  The ACLU does not know this.

Fact is, the so called African-Iraq thing was known by the White House to bediscredited in October 2002. The inclusion of it in the State of the Union was disingenuous at best and blantentlly suborning truth for political agendas at worst in order to play a nuclear card in the State of the Union speech.

 

Given the history of this country, the statement on equality is ludicrous. Equality was not built into the US Constitution, amd the struggle for equality has been long and arduous and we have a long way yet to go.

 

Your statements on the ACLU are pure lies.

 

I am 26 years now a member of the clergy of the Christian Church and a proud 5 year member of the ACLU, wishing only I had been a member much longer.

 

However, I will agree with Hail! to the Victors Valient!

What do the ACLU, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton all have in common?

 

Answer -- all 3 pretend to be "for the people", when in reality they are only out to serve their own needs and fulfill their own agendas.

Not that any of our Presidents or Senators have ever been like that

[1549]

May the truth forever ring

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Never said that you supported the ACLU.  The ACLU was a seperate statement, and merely my own thoughts of the group.  I was not criticizing you views when I spoke of the ACLU.

 

I think you hate our government for the sake of hating it.  My political views differ from CW's, but I see where he is coming from.  With you though, nothing makes sense.  You don't like the fact that our shoes are made by little kids in Asia, and you want every single nike employee to be out of a job.  But you turn you cheek to the thousands killed in Iraq.

 

your puzzling anti-corporation, anti-government views seem to show total disregard to the wealth of this nation and the people in it.  In fact if it weren't for the system we currently live in, you would not have the oppurtunity to grow up in middle class (which I will assume you are b/c you go to college and have internet access, though you could be a multi-millionaire too for all I know). 

 

If we lived in a s***ty system, then I would say, we need changes.  But we live in the best system that this world has to offer at the moment.

 

Not that our system doesn't have its flaws, but you can't blame things like racism on the way our government is set up.  If we lived in a socialist society, people that our prejudiced towards others would not change there mind.

Only time can do that.  And each decade America is becoming a more cultural place.

 

So you can blow it out your ass.  The system we live in is the greatest the world has seen now quit your b**** ass whining 

 

Thank you for allowing me to get that off of my chest

Firstly 1549, I apologize for my harsh language. I've had an intense personal situation going on and part of it boiled over into other things.

 

Onto the ACLU part. This country would be vastly different if there were no advances by the ACLU. While not a perfect organization [no organization is], it does do things that are beneficial for all.

 

I dislike our government because we are a nation that prides itself on democracy and human rights while nearly all of our history shows the opposite. ie slavery, Jim Crow, military interventions in Central and South America [and the rest of the world] etc. etc. I like the values that America is supposed to stand for. I dislike, however, how administrations have and continue subvert human rights.

 

I think it is sickening and pathetic that Indonesian workers had to make Nike shoes just to increase Nike's profits. Not to mention the fact that they pulled a grant to a North Carolina school because they demanded Nike stop using sweatshops. Hell, little known fact that the Sherman Anti-Trust Act was originally meant to bust up labor unions and not monopolistic corporations.

 

I don't turn my cheek to the thousands of civilians killed in Iraq. I've been part of various campaigns to get them medicine, food, etc. and been part of numerous efforts to stop the occupation of Iraq and the needless killing by our troops of Iraqi civilians. And I don't turn a blind eye to the thousands tortured in Iraq. As many on the left may not like, I think Bush could have made a much better case for war if he accentuated the humanitarian issues that involved Saddam and the destruction of human rights. I don't think that Rumsfeld or Cheney could personally comment on the evil that is Saddam because they both PERSONALLY did business with him after the gassing of the Kurds in 1988. And Bush's daddy did help to sell weapons to Iraq that they used to oppress their own people. I have video of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam if you don't believe me. There were a lot of vying interests, many of them being that Cheney and Co. had partitioned Iraq into corporate sectors for US multinationals in March 2001 [can be seen on www.judicialwatch.org] and the no competition contracts given to Halliburton. The UN could have gotten behind, in my eyes, a more humanitarian based action rather than the WMD crap that we were all fed. I believe Karl Rove did a masterpiece in spin because most people don't care what goes on to people in the other half of the world, but a helluva lot of people would be scared of possible WMD that may or may not strike us. Granted many of the illegalities would still apply to the war, the US would have garnered more support instead of relying on uranium lies, WMD lies, Iraq involved with 9/11 lies, et al.

 

Much of our nation's wealth was built on the backs of slaves then the backs of the urban poor when early union busting corporations smashed through labor. Take a look at the various labor strikes, the lives of Eugene V. Debs, Mother Jones, etc. These people undertook grassroots efforts to stop worker exploitation, get them weekends off, etc. They had to FIGHT the system that was in place in order to better it for all people involved. I know most people enjoy the typical 40 hour work week and weekends that were braught to us by labor unions.

 

Our system is getting progressively better but it has been a long struggle to garner changes from the society unwilling to change. I mean, for example, look at the struggles of ending Jim Crow laws in this country. But there are still lots of changes to be made to the system. NAFTA moving jobs to Mexico and out of the US so corporations can get more profits and lose the labor restrictions etc. This is a major problem. Over 200,000 jobs have been lost in America. We have 40 million who cannot even get medical treatment for their ailments. We have HMO's that don't allow for people to have surgeries they need to stay alive etc. Our system is better than what we had in the past, but it can use MANY improvements and it is up to us, as the self proclaimed "world's only superpower", to constantly be on the watch for corporations and groups that subvert human rights and alleviate the suffering of those throughout the world without violence by simply weilding our vast economic strength.

 

I have grown up in a lower middle class family with the luck of having some successful grandparents that valued my education. [Almost all the money for my college comes from a grant my grandfather had set up for me]

 

And our system is not the best the world has seen. For example, Canada has proportionally almost as many gun owners etc. but there is no gun violence. Their medical system, *gasp* people can actually get to see doctors even if they don't have the money to pay and they actually like helping people that happen to need welfare. For the US to claim that we are the world's only superpower and have so many problems with our own infrastructure makes our claim much less valid. It is a constant struggle to better ourselves. We should never settle for the status quo when we can improve so much more. I'd like to see this country where people could actually get health care and every person was taken care of so we had 0 homeless people living in boxes on the street...and *gasp* kids actually get an adequate education in every school district.

 

And remember, though we have a few differences in opinions, we can still agree that :sosasucks and :fthecubs

[1549]

Never said that you supported the ACLU.  The ACLU was a seperate statement, and merely my own thoughts of the group.  I was not criticizing you views when I spoke of the ACLU.

 

I think you hate our government for the sake of hating it.  My political views differ from CW's, but I see where he is coming from.  With you though, nothing makes sense.  You don't like the fact that our shoes are made by little kids in Asia, and you want every single nike employee to be out of a job.  But you turn you cheek to the thousands killed in Iraq.

 

your puzzling anti-corporation, anti-government views seem to show total disregard to the wealth of this nation and the people in it.  In fact if it weren't for the system we currently live in, you would not have the oppurtunity to grow up in middle class (which I will assume you are b/c you go to college and have internet access, though you could be a multi-millionaire too for all I know). 

 

If we lived in a s***ty system, then I would say, we need changes.  But we live in the best system that this world has to offer at the moment.

 

Not that our system doesn't have its flaws, but you can't blame things like racism on the way our government is set up.  If we lived in a socialist society, people that our prejudiced towards others would not change there mind.

Only time can do that.  And each decade America is becoming a more cultural place.

 

So you can blow it out your ass.  The system we live in is the greatest the world has seen now quit your b**** ass whining 

 

Thank you for allowing me to get that off of my chest

Firstly 1549, I apologize for my harsh language. I've had an intense personal situation going on and part of it boiled over into other things.

 

Onto the ACLU part. This country would be vastly different if there were no advances by the ACLU. While not a perfect organization [no organization is], it does do things that are beneficial for all.

 

I dislike our government because we are a nation that prides itself on democracy and human rights while nearly all of our history shows the opposite. ie slavery, Jim Crow, military interventions in Central and South America [and the rest of the world] etc. etc. I like the values that America is supposed to stand for. I dislike, however, how administrations have and continue subvert human rights.

 

I think it is sickening and pathetic that Indonesian workers had to make Nike shoes just to increase Nike's profits. Not to mention the fact that they pulled a grant to a North Carolina school because they demanded Nike stop using sweatshops. Hell, little known fact that the Sherman Anti-Trust Act was originally meant to bust up labor unions and not monopolistic corporations.

 

I don't turn my cheek to the thousands of civilians killed in Iraq. I've been part of various campaigns to get them medicine, food, etc. and been part of numerous efforts to stop the occupation of Iraq and the needless killing by our troops of Iraqi civilians. And I don't turn a blind eye to the thousands tortured in Iraq. As many on the left may not like, I think Bush could have made a much better case for war if he accentuated the humanitarian issues that involved Saddam and the destruction of human rights. I don't think that Rumsfeld or Cheney could personally comment on the evil that is Saddam because they both PERSONALLY did business with him after the gassing of the Kurds in 1988. And Bush's daddy did help to sell weapons to Iraq that they used to oppress their own people. I have video of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam if you don't believe me. There were a lot of vying interests, many of them being that Cheney and Co. had partitioned Iraq into corporate sectors for US multinationals in March 2001 [can be seen on www.judicialwatch.org] and the no competition contracts given to Halliburton. The UN could have gotten behind, in my eyes, a more humanitarian based action rather than the WMD crap that we were all fed. I believe Karl Rove did a masterpiece in spin because most people don't care what goes on to people in the other half of the world, but a helluva lot of people would be scared of possible WMD that may or may not strike us. Granted many of the illegalities would still apply to the war, the US would have garnered more support instead of relying on uranium lies, WMD lies, Iraq involved with 9/11 lies, et al.

 

Much of our nation's wealth was built on the backs of slaves then the backs of the urban poor when early union busting corporations smashed through labor. Take a look at the various labor strikes, the lives of Eugene V. Debs, Mother Jones, etc. These people undertook grassroots efforts to stop worker exploitation, get them weekends off, etc. They had to FIGHT the system that was in place in order to better it for all people involved. I know most people enjoy the typical 40 hour work week and weekends that were braught to us by labor unions.

 

Our system is getting progressively better but it has been a long struggle to garner changes from the society unwilling to change. I mean, for example, look at the struggles of ending Jim Crow laws in this country. But there are still lots of changes to be made to the system. NAFTA moving jobs to Mexico and out of the US so corporations can get more profits and lose the labor restrictions etc. This is a major problem. Over 200,000 jobs have been lost in America. We have 40 million who cannot even get medical treatment for their ailments. We have HMO's that don't allow for people to have surgeries they need to stay alive etc. Our system is better than what we had in the past, but it can use MANY improvements and it is up to us, as the self proclaimed "world's only superpower", to constantly be on the watch for corporations and groups that subvert human rights and alleviate the suffering of those throughout the world without violence by simply weilding our vast economic strength.

 

I have grown up in a lower middle class family with the luck of having some successful grandparents that valued my education. [Almost all the money for my college comes from a grant my grandfather had set up for me]

 

And our system is not the best the world has seen. For example, Canada has proportionally almost as many gun owners etc. but there is no gun violence. Their medical system, *gasp* people can actually get to see doctors even if they don't have the money to pay and they actually like helping people that happen to need welfare. For the US to claim that we are the world's only superpower and have so many problems with our own infrastructure makes our claim much less valid. It is a constant struggle to better ourselves. We should never settle for the status quo when we can improve so much more. I'd like to see this country where people could actually get health care and every person was taken care of so we had 0 homeless people living in boxes on the street...and *gasp* kids actually get an adequate education in every school district.

 

And remember, though we have a few differences in opinions, we can still agree that :sosasucks and :fthecubs

I too would like to apologize if my anger got the best of me.

 

Just a few points I would like to make...

 

As far as I know, the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. Was actually passed with the intention of helping labor. But, because it stated that interfering with trade is illegal, bosses used it against the workers.

 

That is why the Clayton Act. was passed by Theodore Roosevelt, who in my mind is underrated.

 

Also it is unfair to point out slavery as a reason to call this nation hypocritical. For 1) Slavery was not something everyone participated in. 2) At the time, it was not viewed upon as being as horrific as it is now. In fact even many abolitionists did not think blacks were equal to whites. 3) Are nation fought a bloody war to end it, Lincoln vowed to stop it, leading to the souths departure from the union.

 

Another point. You can not say that we are wrong for arming people like Afghan warlords, and Saddam Hussein. In 1980 when the Soviets were piling into Afghanistan, nobody in the U.S. could know what would happen 20 years into the future. Osama did not put on his mean face towards us back then. Ditto for Saddam, in that case it was either Saddam or Iran. And don't forget that Iran and the U.S. were still at ends over the hostage situation and things like that. So it was not wrong to give these people weapons...Obviously though, we all wish that we hadn't.

 

Last but not least, Canada's health system is not perfect. It is the worlds largest beurocracy. In the U.S. if you have a disease that needs to be treated, you will get treatment. You may not get the best, but a standard county hospital will work out payment stuff. They don't just turn you away.

[Chisoxfn]

The South departed because the thread of sucession worked earlier for South Carolina (I think it was them) who threatened to leave the south after Andrew Jackson made some type of tax that would hurt Southern Laborers. It was a terrif of some sort. I forget what it was, but I remember that much.

 

South Carolina remembered that and they were the first to suceed the union again because they felt it would work since it worked a first time.

 

The Sherman Anti Trust act failed because there were so many barriers to it. Mainly interstate commerce was a huge barrier if I recall. The Clayton Anti Trust act was much stronger, but the biggest reason the trusts were busted was because Teddy Roosevelt could give a damn about doing stuff by the law and he just told them to bust the companies. WHich is why he was known as a trust buster.

 

Rememeber how he got the Panama Canal, he just started a revolutionary War in Panama where they demanded their independence so he could make a deal with them for the Canal since the country they were a part of at the time wasn't willing to do it.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

I too would like to apologize if my anger got the best of me.

 

Just a few points I would like to make...

 

As far as I know, the Sherman Anti-Trust Act.  Was actually passed with the intention of helping labor.  But, because it stated that interfering with trade is illegal, bosses used it against the workers. 

 

That is why the Clayton Act. was passed by Theodore Roosevelt, who in my mind is underrated.

 

Also it is unfair to point out slavery as a reason to call this nation hypocritical.  For 1) Slavery was not something everyone participated in.  2) At the time, it was not viewed upon as being as horrific as it is now.  In fact even many abolitionists did not think blacks were equal to whites.  3) Are nation fought a bloody war to end it, Lincoln vowed to stop it, leading to the souths departure from the union.

 

Another point.  You can not say that we are wrong for arming people like Afghan warlords, and Saddam Hussein.  In 1980 when the Soviets were piling into Afghanistan, nobody in the U.S. could know what would happen 20 years into the future. Osama did not put on his mean face towards us back then.  Ditto for Saddam, in that case it was either Saddam or Iran.  And don't forget that Iran and the U.S. were still at ends over the hostage situation and things like that.  So it was not wrong to give these people weapons...Obviously though, we all wish that we hadn't.

 

Last but not least, Canada's health system is not perfect.  It is the worlds largest beurocracy.  In the U.S. if you have a disease that needs to be treated, you will get treatment.  You may not get the best, but a standard county hospital will work out payment stuff.  They don't just turn you away.

The main usage of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act was to bust up union meetings, union protests, etc. The government could have used it to nail monopoly organizations but refused to use it that way when it was first created.

 

Not everybody was involved with slavery but there is something to be said for the hypocricy of "slaveowners who wanted to be free". And the Lincoln war to end slavery, he even says in his own words [i've had to read a lot of his primary source stuff for my classes] he states that the goal of the war is simply preserving the union and if he could do that without ending slavery he would do that. The main reason he ended slavery was the economic impact it would have on the South and it could also get the North more soldiers.

 

I can say that we were wrong in using short sighted foreign policy. With the declassified documents that the US government has released, Stalin's "troublemaking in the region" was that he was providing an example of capital accumulation in one generation and caused them to rise to the 2nd world instead of the 3rd world. With the capitalist reforms, it has again become a 3rd world nation for the most part. [Or says Noam Chomsky's analysis of the declassified documents that he goes into great detail with]

 

We knew that Osama was a religious fanatic that hated all that were not fundamentalist Muslims. But the simple plan of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" blewback and kicked our ass. Hell, we even supplied the gas that he used to kill the Kurds [saddam] and then we did business with him AFTER that event in 1988.

 

The Iranian hostage situation as well. There is a lot of evidence showing that the hostage situation...Bush was still heavily involved in CIA activities and even part of the government of Iran has come forward and said that the US gave them weapons as long as they kept the hostages hostage through the election. [You ever find it funny why they were released on the night of Reagan's inauguration?] This can be verified by eyewitness testimony at the time that said the Iranian diplomats were in the same hotel with Bush and other members of the CIA and the testimony of Iranians that Bush and the CIA armed the Iranian military. My social justice teacher from high school has a lot more info on this and I'd get in contact with him, but he is in Ireland right now.

 

Canada does have a large bureaucracy but it is better than workfare that we have and HMO's will turn people away from surgeries because it is "cost effective" to keep costs down. Some hospitals do offer care but there is a definite problem when 44 million are without any health care in the "world's only superpower".