Gregory Pratt Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 It's a New Yorker piece so it's ridiculously long but obviously I think it's a good read if I would post it. http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10...a_fact_gladwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I don't need to read the article to know it's stupid. Humans get paid and know the risks. Dogs get trained and beaten to be vicious and kill each other. Any comparison is stupid. /thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 04:09 PM) I don't need to read the article to know it's stupid. Humans get paid and know the risks. Dogs get trained and beaten to be vicious and kill each other. Any comparison is stupid. /thread read the article before you make an ignorant statement assuming what it is talking about /thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Might want to read something before just assuming what something might say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 04:09 PM) I don't need to read the article to know it's stupid. Humans get paid and know the risks. Dogs get trained and beaten to be vicious and kill each other. Any comparison is stupid. /thread Humans don't get paid until the NFL, and there are a lot of kids out there (I know a few) who played football like it was their life, played through concussions and other injuries, and things of that nature growing up just hoping to get a scholarship to play in college since it was their only way to ever afford it. Football and dogfighting aren't comparable since yes, football is a choice. But they are comparable in that their participants suffer serious consequences (obviously more serioius for the dogs since many die, but football players end up really messed up). Edited October 14, 2009 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Great article...I own two pit bulls and assholes who fight their dogs should get their balls cut off... You can't beat a dog into being a great fighter,they basically will fight to death to please their owners and morally corrupt individuals use that very trait against them for a buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 05:09 PM) I don't need to read the article to know it's stupid. Humans get paid and know the risks. Dogs get trained and beaten to be vicious and kill each other. Any comparison is stupid. /thread Yeah this is actually incredibly ignorant, which you would come to see if you took the time to read the article. Bill Simmons put this on his twitter the other day and I read it. A good read. Very interesting. And Steve, in case you were wondering it is not "preachy". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 04:09 PM) I don't need to read the article to know it's stupid. LOL at the irony of this statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 14, 2009 -> 10:25 AM) LOL at the irony of this statement. He is right though. The piece shed light on an important topic, but there still is no comparison between football and dogfighting. Dogs are animals incapable of making decisions based on logic. Even if the dogs acquired for fighting are trained from birth to fight, they still come from a long line of ancestors captive bred to love and trust human beings. They have no option to "quit" or find a new owner and they are in a sense defenseless as well, because although they have jaws to bite, they do not have the necessary weapons (brainpower) to defend themselves against a master who uses food and attention to trick them into risking their lives needlessly. And on top of that, the dogs 1) do not enjoy it, 2) receive no monetary or other forms of benefits like humans do, 3) receive no medical care, 4) are eventually destroyed and thrown out like garbage, win or lose. Beyond that, running a dogfighting ring requires no skill, no intelligence, it mandates ZERO compassion, and there are no rewards for the competitors of any kind which make the activities worth their risk. If there is any comparison between dogfighting and human beings, the closest thing I could think of would be a situation that made the news before (can't remember when/where this was) where a bunch of staff at a mental health facility conned mentally disabled people into fighting each other. There are dangers involved in contact sports that can end the lives of those athletes involved early and miserably, and it is true that the controlling forces of these things turn and look the other way, but so do the fans, so does the media, and so do the athletes themselves. Brain trauma in contact sports is the pink elephant in the room, nothing more. OTOH, dogfighting is one of the most despicable activities any human being can participate in. You're tricking an animal of low intelligence that was bred to love you into maiming itself for the benefit of your pocketbook. That's highly f***ed up. The article was informative and worth its ink when it dealt with head trauma in football and boxing, but the writer just had to go for the dogfighting connection to get attention. If the guy was just in love with the metaphor it would be different, but he actually tries to make a case that there is a similar trust/love/faith element in both player-game/team and dog-master relationships, and that in each case brutality is inherent to the "sport." That's f***ing ridiculous anyway, because dogfighting is definitely not a sport, it's only something that sick f***s do to make money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 14, 2009 -> 12:35 PM) He is right though. The piece shed light on an important topic, but there still is no comparison between football and dogfighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 14, 2009 -> 12:35 PM) He is right though. The piece shed light on an important topic, but there still is no comparison between football and dogfighting. Dogs are animals incapable of making decisions based on logic. Even if the dogs acquired for fighting are trained from birth to fight, they still come from a long line of ancestors captive bred to love and trust human beings. They have no option to "quit" or find a new owner and they are in a sense defenseless as well, because although they have jaws to bite, they do not have the necessary weapons (brainpower) to defend themselves against a master who uses food and attention to trick them into risking their lives needlessly. And on top of that, the dogs 1) do not enjoy it, 2) receive no monetary or other forms of benefits like humans do, 3) receive no medical care, 4) are eventually destroyed and thrown out like garbage, win or lose. Beyond that, running a dogfighting ring requires no skill, no intelligence, it mandates ZERO compassion, and there are no rewards for the competitors of any kind which make the activities worth their risk. If there is any comparison between dogfighting and human beings, the closest thing I could think of would be a situation that made the news before (can't remember when/where this was) where a bunch of staff at a mental health facility conned mentally disabled people into fighting each other. There are dangers involved in contact sports that can end the lives of those athletes involved early and miserably, and it is true that the controlling forces of these things turn and look the other way, but so do the fans, so does the media, and so do the athletes themselves. Brain trauma in contact sports is the pink elephant in the room, nothing more. OTOH, dogfighting is one of the most despicable activities any human being can participate in. You're tricking an animal of low intelligence that was bred to love you into maiming itself for the benefit of your pocketbook. That's highly f***ed up. The article was informative and worth its ink when it dealt with head trauma in football and boxing, but the writer just had to go for the dogfighting connection to get attention. If the guy was just in love with the metaphor it would be different, but he actually tries to make a case that there is a similar trust/love/faith element in both player-game/team and dog-master relationships, and that in each case brutality is inherent to the "sport." That's f***ing ridiculous anyway, because dogfighting is definitely not a sport, it's only something that sick f***s do to make money. Saying an article is stupid and at the same time saying you haven't read it isn't "right", it laughably ironic. As to the point of the article, I would agree they are pretty much unrelated, but I want to read the rest of it at some point later to see if the writer brings up any worthwhile points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 14, 2009 -> 03:27 PM) Saying an article is stupid and at the same time saying you haven't read it isn't "right", it laughably ironic. As to the point of the article, I would agree they are pretty much unrelated, but I want to read the rest of it at some point later to see if the writer brings up any worthwhile points. I agree with that, but I also understand Steve's immediate reaction because I do that all the time too. In fact, I wouldn't have read the thing if I didn't see good reviews first. When I personally come across absurd headlines like that I usually ignore them and consider them stupid because I know they almost have to be, and this is a perfect example of that. Either they're stupid because there's nothing of substance in them and/or they're basically hit pieces, or they're stupid because they're trying to capitalize on a controversial topic to gain readership. And speaking of irony, isn't it ironic that the author attempts to put a focus on the kind of romanticizing of the sport which leads to problems (like viewing the athletes as "warriors" who must "battle" through injuries, etc.) but at the same time he romanticizes it himself by comparing human beings playing a lucrative game with injury potential to animals fighting to the death? LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 The headline said that the article on football compared it to dogfighting. I went off of that. You all can kiss my rump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 List of Steve's contributions to this thread: ...and, we're done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 list of lostfan's contributions to this thread... ...and we're done. Seriously, next time I'll read through the 8 page article to see if the thread is misleading. Get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 What happened to being Kings*** of f*** Mountain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 14, 2009 -> 04:19 PM) What happened to being Kings*** of f*** Mountain? It was Sox Mountain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 14, 2009 -> 05:16 PM) list of lostfan's contributions to this thread... ...and we're done. Seriously, next time I'll read through the 8 page article to see if the thread is misleading. Get over it. So you're aware that your behavior is inappropriate and useless, and you are proud of it and signal your intent to continue with your subtraction by addition. You need to re-evaluate whether this is what you want to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) I really think you are trying to make something out of nothing here, and I'm sorry if you think my intent was to start anything in this thread other than to state my opinion that ANY comparison of football and dogfighting is moronic. I will happily bow out of this thread filled with personal attacks even though folks who read the article have seemed to come to the conclusion that I did without reading it?? Given the topic subtitle, and others' statements regarding what they have read, it seems like my initial reaction wasn't far off. I'm sorry that I, as an animal lover, took any offense to the comparison of football and dogfighting, but it came off as not worth the read to me and I posted so. QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 14, 2009 -> 12:35 PM) The article was informative and worth its ink when it dealt with head trauma in football and boxing, but the writer just had to go for the dogfighting connection to get attention. The above is what I figured was the case. QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 14, 2009 -> 03:27 PM) Saying an article is stupid and at the same time saying you haven't read it isn't "right", it laughably ironic. As to the point of the article, I would agree they are pretty much unrelated... Alright, ie, comparing them is pretty dumb. QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 14, 2009 -> 03:48 PM) I agree with that, but I also understand Steve's immediate reaction because I do that all the time too. In fact, I wouldn't have read the thing if I didn't see good reviews first. When I personally come across absurd headlines like that I usually ignore them and consider them stupid because I know they almost have to be, and this is a perfect example of that. Either they're stupid because there's nothing of substance in them and/or they're basically hit pieces, or they're stupid because they're trying to capitalize on a controversial topic to gain readership. And speaking of irony, isn't it ironic that the author attempts to put a focus on the kind of romanticizing of the sport which leads to problems (like viewing the athletes as "warriors" who must "battle" through injuries, etc.) but at the same time he romanticizes it himself by comparing human beings playing a lucrative game with injury potential to animals fighting to the death? LOL. I don't know what you're trying to suggest lostfan, that I'm trying to incite riots by pointing out in my own way that football and dogfighting should not be compared. I apologize for not writing a thesis and instead declaring I did not want to read something that, in my mind, was asinine. Again, I was going off the information given in the title and subtitle "Article on football, compares it to dogfighting." I needed no more. That was enough for me to judge that the article was stupid. I don't think I was out of line for making that assumption, either. There was absolutely no intention on my part to bring down the quality of soxtalk or the posts that are on it, and I have personally been very careful lately as to not upset anyone in that regard. Edited October 14, 2009 by Steve9347 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Oct 14, 2009 -> 04:14 PM) List of Steve's contributions to this thread: ...and, we're done. QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 14, 2009 -> 04:16 PM) list of lostfan's contributions to this thread... ...and we're done. Seriously, next time I'll read through the 8 page article to see if the thread is misleading. Get over it. I see what you guys did there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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