Getz vs. Nix

[ThunderBolt]

The fact that O-Dug and Brian Roberts are that low on the list saws a lot right there. Hell, Aaron Hill is a negative .8. There is nothing on that list that makes me think UZR is at all reliable.

 

In fact, if anything else, it tells me that UZR is a joke.

Either that or Hudson and Roberts had bad defensive years. As, players are prone to do.

[son of a rude]

Omar Vizquel had a UZR of -6.4 in 2002 (age 35). But at age 40, it suddenly jumped to +20.2.

Yeah, it's definitely works for the most part.

My god, you are an arrogant jackass. You picked two examples of where it was inaccurate. Want me to find the many examples of where it is accurate? And is it impossible that he had an off year defensively? Maybe he had a nagging injury he was playing through.

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

My god, you are an arrogant jackass. You picked two examples of where it was inaccurate. Want me to find the many examples of where it is accurate? And is it impossible that he had an off year defensively? Maybe he had a nagging injury he was playing through.

Buh...Bye. And don't think it was just you, others were suspended....but you never play nice, never debate, its just attack after attack and that is intolerable and unacceptable.

[son of a rude]

People believe Getz is a good 2B because they have watched him play. UZR has its flaws, which must upset you because it seems to be your only argument.

 

Secondly, it would be practically impossible for anyone to "prove" anything to you. Only time will do that, and when enough of it passes, you'll see how wrong you are.

 

It's almost impossible to change somebody's opinion on defense, unless they buy saber stats (or unless they are completely wrong, ie they think Dye is a good fielder and you can use visual evidence to change their mind). I watched Chris play, and it did seem like Nix got to more balls then he did. But again, your eyes can be deceiving. I thought Nix' range was superior to Getz from watching games, but that isn't always the best way to tell. I use UZR to back up what I saw.

[SoxAce]

And is it impossible that he had an off year defensively? Maybe he had a nagging injury he was playing through.

 

Hmmm... Chris Getz had a few injuries that killed not only his offensive production, but his overall defensive play as well... hmmmm. As a matter of fact, I had to commend Getz for all the crap he had to go through the year, and still played through it, and wound up having surgery for a sports hernia (or was it a herniated disk?).

 

Whoops. nevermind this, your banned.

Edited October 22, 2009 by SoxAce

[Chisoxfn]

SoxNet's Review on Getz 2009 Campaign

[Harry Chappas]

People view defense simply as a person got to a ball and booted it or threw it away as an error. Watching Nix he has better reaction time then Getz and thus gets to balls that Getz does not. These are not errors in as much as simply plays that were not made. I give Nix the benefit of the doubt as he was also a rookie and moved around to 5 different positions Getz can only play one. Both need to improve and I think the one that shows the most in spring gets the nod or it is a straight platoon both have weaknesses that make them equally average at this point at best.

[Chisoxfn]

People view defense simply as a person got to a ball and booted it or threw it away as an error. Watching Nix he has better reaction time then Getz and thus gets to balls that Getz does not. These are not errors in as much as simply plays that were not made. I give Nix the benefit of the doubt as he was also a rookie and moved around to 5 different positions Getz can only play one. Both need to improve and I think the one that shows the most in spring gets the nod or it is a straight platoon both have weaknesses that make them equally average at this point at best.

Getz has played 3B before. Not saying he'd make a good one but if CJ Retheford eventually develops Getz does have the ability to play multiple positions defensively and thus move into a utility role (not saying he'd be a plus defender at multiple positions, more that he's capable of doing it).

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

It's almost impossible to change somebody's opinion on defense, unless they buy saber stats (or unless they are completely wrong, ie they think Dye is a good fielder and you can use visual evidence to change their mind). I watched Chris play, and it did seem like Nix got to more balls then he did. But again, your eyes can be deceiving. I thought Nix' range was superior to Getz from watching games, but that isn't always the best way to tell. I use UZR to back up what I saw.

I don't think anyone in this thread is saying that Getz is a better defender than Nix. I agree that Nix is rangier and has a stronger arm, and therefore is more versatile in the field, even though he's not much of a SS at all. The point is that Getz is a better hitter and a better all-around baseball player, and he plays 2B well enough to be an asset. Nix OTOH has major offensive shortcomings, and his defense is not enough to negate that. Nix is a bench player, Getz is a starter. IF - and this is a really big if - Nix can make better contact and give away fewer AB, and IF he can hit RHP, then he could be the better player. But the odds at this point are against him because he'll be 27 next year and he still needs a ton of work.

[qwerty]

Uzr means very little year from one year to the next, which is stated in practically every uzr related article ever created. You have to look at a several years worth of data to truly know what you have on your hands, neither of which getz or nix currently posses.

 

Throwing uzr out the window i would give nix the benefit of the doubt defensively for the future. It's not too often that you see a player touted as highly as he was defensively to suddenly drop off the face of the planet and become just average, or below average for that matter. Offensively? It happens every day. While in the minors i have seen getz's defense hyped anywhere from slightly above average, to slightly below average. Getz just so happened to be slightly below average this past season, it's not the end of the world, as there is still room for improvement. How much room? I couldn't tell you.

 

Getz arm is strong enough, he gets the ball off quick enough for the most part (on a double play), though his range seemed to lack some. This is not me just spewing some garbage, others seem to think his range has room for improvement also. Nix has gotten to balls at second with ease that would be a diving play for getz, and it's not just simply positioning, considering the two of them should be positioned very similarly. Nix also just so happened to turn an excellent double play while at second. I am fairly certain nix's defensive ability upside at second is much more superior to that of chris getz.

 

People have said that nix was utilized correctly to succeed offensively this past season (bad pitchers, lefties, etc). Due to minor league splits which date back to 2005... nix hit .256/.325/.385 449 at-bats against lefties and .276/.333/.431 in 1096 at-bats against right handers. Any explanation for this phenomena?

 

That being said, getz will be the opening day starter, unless he another hernia pops up right before game time. I envision the sox hoping getz pans out to be that .300 hitter (roughly) and nix being the super sub. Truth be told, i do not care for either very much, as both have big flaws, on both sides of the ball.

[qwerty]

Getz has played 3B before. Not saying he'd make a good one but if CJ Retheford eventually develops Getz does have the ability to play multiple positions defensively and thus move into a utility role (not saying he'd be a plus defender at multiple positions, more that he's capable of doing it).

 

Nix has the ability to play multiple positions also, i just think he would hurt us more at third and short than i think he would benefit us. I've said such since his first game when everyone became enamored with him. Sadly, we are stuck with both nix and getz next season, something i am not exactly looking forward to. The upside is beckham will likely play 150, ramirez 145-150, and getz around 135-140. Hopefully nix will not be able to sneak in on the left side of the infield too often to hurt us, barring an injury.

 

 

 

[Jerksticks]

Did anybody else get the impression that Getz has a noodle arm at 2B? I'm still in the Pro-Getz/Hope CJ Is Amazing category, but I don't think he is very good defensively at all.

[iamshack]

Did anybody else get the impression that Getz has a noodle arm at 2B? I'm still in the Pro-Getz/Hope CJ Is Amazing category, but I don't think he is very good defensively at all.

 

Are you kidding me? On how many balls does the second baseman's arm actually play a role? Maybe like 3 out of 1,000? His arm is more than sufficient, and he has some decent range moving to his left. The area where Nix is superior is in moving to the right. Again, I don't particularly love either of these options, but at least Getz has shown the ability to have a clue from both sides of the plate, whereas Nix cannot say that.

[southsider2k5]

He was a rookie this year. He had an OBP of .340 in the second half of this year. It just completely baffles me how people continue to ride this guy. Look, he'll never be an all-star. We get it. But we're also not the Yankees, we can't have 9 all-stars hitting 20 HRs a year for us. Getz looked fine to me in the field and does little things much better than Nix; making contact, hitting behind runners, bunting etc...Getz is a baseball player. He plays the game the right way. He also was 25/27 in SB this year and missed a bunch of time. What that tells me is if he can raise his OBP and stay healthy he could potentially steal 35 bases a year. You put him in the 9 spot in our lineup and I'll take it. I've said it plenty of times but Chris Getz reminds me of the prototypical Minnesota Twin little infielder that doesnt seem to have great tools but just gets the job done and we all wonder how or why. Then we complain we don't have anyone like that blah blah blah. Well now we do. I'd think more people would be happy about that and recognize that what someone does in their rookie year plagued with injuries shouldn't be viewed as their ceiling. Nix supposedly has so much room to grow but somehow Chris Getz has topped out? Sorry, I just don't buy it. Getz is a gamer, I expect him to have a solid 10 year career in this league.

 

Good call. And with a team like we have, I have no problem with Chris Getz getting 500 ABs next year, assuming no large regression.

[knightni]

I'd be more inclined to deal Nix for a younger middle infield prospect and see if Retherford can be the utility guy. Getz is the 2nd baseman of the near future (2010-11) and possibly the 2010 leadoff man depending on Pods' situation. Nix has proven that his shortstop skills are lacking and that he has limited contact ability overall and limited success versus lefty pitchers. Getz and Retherford should be better options if a platoon is necessary again.

 

 

 

 

[hitlesswonder]

Sadly, we are stuck with both nix and getz next season, something i am not exactly looking forward to. The upside is beckham will likely play 150, ramirez 145-150, and getz around 135-140.

 

I don't think being stuck with both is a bad thing. How many teams have a backup IF as good as Nix? I don't think it's that many. He may be bad at SS and I don't know about 3B but but he's good at 2B and his .700 OPS is fine for a backup. Plus he's cheap and cost nothing to acquire.

 

Now, you could argue that both Getz and Nix are adequate backups and the Sox need a starting quality 2B. That's debatable.

 

[ThunderBolt]

Getz is yet to prove he has the skills of a leadoff man. His OPB trends suggest he will never get that close. Furthermore, with below-average defensive skills and no pop at all, he is far from an ideal option for an America League club competing in a home-run hitters park.. I'm yet to see why people thing Getz will be so good, must arguments suggest he'll turn into a radicaly different player.. I understand he's a smart guy, with great speed, but he's not much of a hitter and he's not much of a fielder. I'd let CJ Retherford compete for the job, and hope like hell, Nix can hit for a sustained batting average.

[JorgeFabregas]

There is a sample size issue with looking at Nix vs. RHP in 2009. He actually hit RHP better than LHP in his minor league career.

[southsider2k5]

There is a sample size issue with looking at Nix vs. RHP in 2009. He actually hit RHP better than LHP in his minor league career.

 

Yeah, Ozzie pretty much saved him for optimal ABs versus righties.

[JorgeFabregas]

It would be more correct for me to say that he hit better vs. RHP during the years for which minorleaguesplits.com has stats available--basically the second half of his minor league career.

 

 

[iamshack]

It would be more correct for me to say that he hit better vs. RHP during the years for which minorleaguesplits.com has stats available--basically the second half of his minor league career.

Wouldn't you agree, however, that he looked incredibly incompetent when facing righties, as opposed to lefties last season?

[balfanman]

Buh...Bye. And don't think it was just you, others were suspended....but you never play nice, never debate, its just attack after attack and that is intolerable and unacceptable.

 

Thank you Chisoxfn!. I'm new here (posting anyway) and the last thing that I want to do is rile up people, but this kind of behavior really makes me stop reading threads. Why can't people just express an opinion without being deemed stupid or whatever name they get called. When posters come across as a "I know everything and you don't", it really turns me off. I'm sure that I'll have my share of foolish opinions but you can educate someone without being condescending.

 

A wise man once told me that the people who resort to name calling, do so because they simple aren't smart enough to respond any better.

 

[balfanman]

Getz has played 3B before. Not saying he'd make a good one but if CJ Retheford eventually develops Getz does have the ability to play multiple positions defensively and thus move into a utility role (not saying he'd be a plus defender at multiple positions, more that he's capable of doing it).

 

Didn't Getz play several positions in the minors as well? I seem to remember that he even played some outfield.

[Harry Chappas]

If Dayan can play third or the SoO think he can play it well enough, one of CJ, Getz or Nix platoons as Beckham moves to second. In this scenario CJ may have the best shot.

[RockRaines]

Did anybody else get the impression that Getz has a noodle arm at 2B? I'm still in the Pro-Getz/Hope CJ Is Amazing category, but I don't think he is very good defensively at all.

No, in fact he turns a mean DP.

 

Getz is more valuable to me because their defensive differences at 2B are negligible and Getz is more valuable offensively because he fits a niche that we have lacked for several years and we grew envious watching on other teams like the Twins. He could develop into a good lead off man or be seriously dangerous at the bottom of the lineup.