greg775 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Cliff Lee is a great example of an acquisition that can lead a team to greatness. Just think if we could have had Peavy for a much longer period of time? Lee made the Yankees look like Little Leaguers. Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 28, 2009 -> 09:59 PM) Cliff Lee is a great example of an acquisition that can lead a team to greatness. Just think if we could have had Peavy for a much longer period of time? Lee made the Yankees look like Little Leaguers. Amazing. And they got to keep the prospects they really wanted to keep. The Phillies aren't going anywhere for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 28, 2009 -> 11:04 PM) And they got to keep the prospects they really wanted to keep. The Phillies aren't going anywhere for a while. On the other hand it has to really suck to be an Indians fan and watch Lee and Sabathia dominate the postseason when you got little in return for the two of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Oct 28, 2009 -> 10:09 PM) On the other hand it has to really suck to be an Indians fan and watch Lee and Sabathia dominate the postseason when you got little in return for the two of them. True. But the Indians don't stay down long. Their system is pretty loaded right now. I see them right back in the thick of things in the Central come 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 28, 2009 -> 10:04 PM) And they got to keep the prospects they really wanted to keep. The Phillies aren't going anywhere for a while. That's why Amaro has his team competing for a back to back WS title and a retard like Ricciardi is unemployed...I loved this trade from the get go,you get a top tier Ace without giving up your future... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Oct 28, 2009 -> 10:02 PM) How is Sabathia not nearly as good as Lee? I'd like to hear this. in the postseason, it isnt even close http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs/200...&id=4604436 But then again, you could argue that they'd never met up all year with a pitcher on the kind of roll Lee has been on this October -- a roll as historic as it is downright spectacular. He now has made four starts in this postseason -- the first four postseason starts of his career. In every one of them, he has gone at least seven innings and given up one earned run or none. In the history of baseball, only one other starting pitcher ever started his postseason career with four starts like that -- a Hall of Famer named Christy Mathewson, who did it as recently as a century ago (in 1905-11). Meanwhile, Lee has now pitched 33 1/3 innings in his postseason career -- and given up a total of two earned runs. Two. That computes to a ridiculous 0.54 ERA. And how many pitchers in history have a lower ERA than that in that many postseason innings? The answer is none. Nada. Your previous all-time record-holder was Mariano Rivera, holder of a 0.77 ERA. He had an excellent view Wednesday of the new record-holder's relentless brilliance. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sabatc.01.shtml career playoffs for Sabathia: 9 games, 5-4 record, 4.45 ERA, 1.50 WHIP, 54.2 IP, 54 hits allowed, 28 BB, 50 K, 7 HR allowed, 28 Runs allowed, 27 Earned Runs Allowed http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/leecl02.shtml career playoffs for Lee 4 games, 3-0 record, 0.54 ERA, 0.69 WHIP, 33.1 IP, 20 hits allowed, 3 BB, 30 K, 0 HR allowed, 5 runs allowed, 2 earned runs allowed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 One down, now they just need to figure out a way to win without Lee pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 07:17 AM) One down, now they just need to figure out a way to win without Lee pitching. Well, they have managed to go 4-2 in the games they've played without Lee this postseason. I'm not sure where this perception is stemming from that they are all Lee and nothing else. Granted, he's been amazing, but Pedro and Hamels are no slouches themselves. Really pumped for tonight's game...can't wait to see Pedro pitch on the big stage again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 how confident can Yankees fans be in AJ Burnett??? he hasnt exactly proven himself on the big stage and if he has one of his bouts of wildness, the Phillies will jump all over him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 08:09 AM) Well, they have managed to go 4-2 in the games they've played without Lee this postseason. I'm not sure where this perception is stemming from that they are all Lee and nothing else. Granted, he's been amazing, but Pedro and Hamels are no slouches themselves. Really pumped for tonight's game...can't wait to see Pedro pitch on the big stage again. They have faced nothing like the Yankees offense to this point in the playoffs. Plus they aren't facing a pitcher for the next game at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 09:57 AM) They have faced nothing like the Yankees offense to this point in the playoffs. Plus they aren't facing a pitcher for the next game at least. No but Jose Molina is in the lineup tonight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 28, 2009 -> 07:25 PM) Why is everyone on TV acting like its a huge surprise that Cliff Lee is good? He won a f***ing Cy Young, of course he's good. I love all the people on here that bad mouthed Lee, saying how he was a 1 year wonder and was overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 08:57 AM) They have faced nothing like the Yankees offense to this point in the playoffs. Plus they aren't facing a pitcher for the next game at least. The Yankees, in turn, have faced nothing like the Phillies offense to this point in the playoffs either. The two offenses are really not as different as many make them out to be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 11:20 AM) The Yankees, in turn, have faced nothing like the Phillies offense to this point in the playoffs either. The two offenses are really not as different as many make them out to be... In fact, the Phillies offense may even be the more potent one in Yankee Stadium with that short porch in right (Rollins, Utley, Howard, Ibanez) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 10:43 AM) In fact, the Phillies offense may even be the more potent one in Yankee Stadium with that short porch in right (Rollins, Utley, Howard, Ibanez) Victorino has hit 3 homers this postseason as well, and I know Werth went oppo for atleast one of his homers. I think tonight could be a high scoring game. I'm still questioning leaving Lee in to close the game out, especially when they were up 4-0 after 8 and that turned into 6-0 after the top of the 9th. He threw 15-20 pitches in that last frame, and that just seems unnecessary to me when you want him to pitch 3 games in this series if he has to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 09:57 AM) Victorino has hit 3 homers this postseason as well, and I know Werth went oppo for atleast one of his homers. I think tonight could be a high scoring game. I'm still questioning leaving Lee in to close the game out, especially when they were up 4-0 after 8 and that turned into 6-0 after the top of the 9th. He threw 15-20 pitches in that last frame, and that just seems unnecessary to me when you want him to pitch 3 games in this series if he has to. Lee has been extremely durable throughout his career, so it shouldn't be a problem. He doesn't even ice his arm after games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 10:58 AM) Lee has been extremely durable throughout his career, so it shouldn't be a problem. He doesn't even ice his arm after games. That's wild. It is also worth noting that he never really labored or had a tough out the entire game. His mechanics have always been really fluid, and I am a believer that it is the tougher innings, where you end up throwing 30-40 pitches, are the innings you need to worry about more. You obviously don't want to leave a pitcher out for 130-150 pitches ever, but if you can average about 12-15 pitches or so an inning and never get into the 25-30 range, you should be all right in the long run. I'm guess I'm more upset about the fact that Lee was left in a game that was pretty much decided already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 11:15 AM) That's wild. It is also worth noting that he never really labored or had a tough out the entire game. His mechanics have always been really fluid, and I am a believer that it is the tougher innings, where you end up throwing 30-40 pitches, are the innings you need to worry about more. You obviously don't want to leave a pitcher out for 130-150 pitches ever, but if you can average about 12-15 pitches or so an inning and never get into the 25-30 range, you should be all right in the long run. I'm guess I'm more upset about the fact that Lee was left in a game that was pretty much decided already. I still think leaving Lee in was the right move. I know scoring 6 runs in one inning is really tough to do, but with the way Lee was pitching, do you really wanna risk throwing Lidge out there? The odds of Lidge blowing it were minimal, but much better chance than of Lee doing it. Its the World Series, you manage to win that days game and worry about the rest later, and I doubt the difference between 105 & 122 pitches is gonna hurt Lee later in the series Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 11:21 AM) I still think leaving Lee in was the right move. I know scoring 6 runs in one inning is really tough to do, but with the way Lee was pitching, do you really wanna risk throwing Lidge out there? The odds of Lidge blowing it were minimal, but much better chance than of Lee doing it. Its the World Series, you manage to win that days game and worry about the rest later, and I doubt the difference between 105 & 122 pitches is gonna hurt Lee later in the series You never know. And I imagine throwing Park, Madson, or Lidge out there would be just fine. Lidge has been stellar in the postseason thus far, and gave up only 1 run in his last 4 appearances during the season. I have more confidence in the Phillies bullpen right now than the Yankees. I know you want the win and do whatever you can, but 6 runs is still a huge cushion, and you also have to look to atleast game 4 for Lee to pitch next, and potentially a game 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 26, 2009 -> 05:03 PM) I really don't find Burnett to be head and shoulders above anyone, let alone Hamels. I know Hamels has struggled, but I think facing the different league might help him out more than most other pitchers. We'll see though. I, for one, am pretty excited about this matchup for the WS. I agree. I don't think that Burnett is all that (Pettitte is better, IMO, and has a long history of post-season success). I originally predicted that the Phillies could realistically win two games with Lee pitching Games 1 and 4, and it didn't even take a bad Sabathia outing for Lee to win one of them. I still think that the Yankees take it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it went 7 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 i strongly disagree with starting Pedro over Hamels here. I know Hamels has been bad, and Pedro has the pedigree, but Pedro isn't the same Pedro that he was with the Red Sox. There's no reason to pitch him against a lineup with a DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) Swisher benched for Hairston is being reported. Edited October 29, 2009 by KyYlE23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 03:26 PM) Swisher benched for Hairston is being reported. What are "Things you saw coming a mile away" for $200 Alex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 03:32 PM) What are "Things you saw coming a mile away" for $200 Alex? You could see it coming, but Girardi waited 9 games to get around to it. .125 average is just flat out baaaaaad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 01:21 PM) i strongly disagree with starting Pedro over Hamels here. I know Hamels has been bad, and Pedro has the pedigree, but Pedro isn't the same Pedro that he was with the Red Sox. There's no reason to pitch him against a lineup with a DH. Pedro has been pretty good in Philly this year. Hamels is obviously the better pitcher and Manuel's definitely playing the hot hand here, but I have a tough time disagreeing with his logic. Hamels has been suffering from a dead (or at least tired) arm all season and it's not going to improve now. Similarly, I expect Girardi to stay away from Hughes for the rest of the Series. QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 01:36 PM) You could see it coming, but Girardi waited 9 games to get around to it. .125 average is just flat out baaaaaad "Dirty .130"? Edited October 29, 2009 by WCSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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