Sox need defense for serious run in 2010

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

We've all heard the axiom "good pitching always beats good hitting". This is true because even as a good hitter you fail 7 out of every 10 ABS. What we all are optimistic about is the 2010 starting pitching. The best way to make that pitching even better is putting a good defense behind it.

 

I read this recently from http://www.examiner.com/x-425-Chicago-Whit...ld-glove-ballot :

 

"Good defense makes a pitching staff better. Just ask the Texas Rangers, which saw its team ERA go from a MLB-worst 5.37 in 2008 to a middle-of-the-pack 4.38 in 2009. A lot of that was due to the Rangers' UZR improving from a league-worst -51.7 in '08 to a top-six 33.2 in '09.

 

And if Zack Greinke didn't have a league-worst -49.3 team UZR playing behind him, we might be talking about one of the best seasons by a starting pitcher in the last 25 years. That's 49 runs the Royals allowed because of poor defense—an absolutely staggering number ".

 

I know the Sox have other needs such as bullpen help but getting help there is such a hit and miss proposition from year to year it makes sense to acquire more proven qualities. So one more top fielder in the infield and one in the outfield would be a fairly successful off season IMHO.

 

With Beckham at 3rd and ARam at short , 2nd base is where we could improve the most. That's where free agent Placido Polanco fits in. He's among the best fielding 2nd basemen in the game even at age 34. Currently he's a type B free agent.

 

In the outfield Nyger Morgan of the Nationals should be targeted in trade talks. He's among the finest defensive CF's in the game today with great range and a cannon for an arm. He also stole 42 bases ,had an OBP of .369 and bats LH all of which should appeal to the Sox. He's 29 years old and somewhat of a late bloomer. Rios can then play RF and Quentin LF.

 

 

By the way if you've never read the author of the previously mentioned article , he also has 2009 season in review of all Sox players and uses all the offensive and defensive metrics and does an excellent job.

Now how the Sox will pull this off I have no idea. I'll leave that to the people who know how much money the Sox have to spend or how much money they can move.

Edited October 29, 2009 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[witesoxfan]

The article mentions that bullpens are hit and miss from year to year - this is true - but defense is hit and miss from year to year too. Generally, the best will be better than the rest, but a guy like Polanco, even at 34 years of age, is going to start breaking down in the next few years and could become a rather mediocre shortstop. And on top of that, Getz is solid defensively and Nix's scouting report says that he is fantastic at 2B (and though I didn't see much, I did hear that there were some flashes of that this year). A lot of times defense has more to do with putting athletic players on the field and advanced scouting. You can put a world class sprinter in CF, but if he's out of position, he's almost never going to catch a ball.

 

 

[Kalapse]

I find it shocking that Orlando Hudson's name has yet to be mentioned or maybe I'm just not paying close enough attention.

[bigruss]

I find it shocking that Orlando Hudson's name has yet to be mentioned or maybe I'm just not paying close enough attention.

I think alot of people just see him as too much of an expense at a position that has decent (but definitely not good) options for league minimum. He could be in for a big payday and we have bigger issues (though, if the price was right, he would solve the leadoff spot while playing excellent defense).

[justBLAZE]

I find it shocking that Orlando Hudson's name has yet to be mentioned or maybe I'm just not paying close enough attention.

 

I think a lot of people are really getting used to Getz being our starting 2B. A lot of it comes from the Sox brass mentioning infield shall stay intact.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

The article mentions that bullpens are hit and miss from year to year - this is true - but defense is hit and miss from year to year too. Generally, the best will be better than the rest, but a guy like Polanco, even at 34 years of age, is going to start breaking down in the next few years and could become a rather mediocre shortstop. And on top of that, Getz is solid defensively and Nix's scouting report says that he is fantastic at 2B (and though I didn't see much, I did hear that there were some flashes of that this year). A lot of times defense has more to do with putting athletic players on the field and advanced scouting. You can put a world class sprinter in CF, but if he's out of position, he's almost never going to catch a ball.

 

I know you meant to say 2nd baseman. Despite his age Polanco has been and probably will continue to be one of the best defensive 2nd baseman in the game for another year or 2 and is a fine hitter also. Getz fielding metrics weren't that good and Nix can't hit righties at all. With the starting pitching we have now it's imperative to give them all the support they need to do their best and that means putting good D behind them for at least a 2 year window of opportunity . It's still a safe bet that the offense wouldn't be hurt by his presence either. I realize Getz had injury problems that most likely limited what he could produce both offensively and defensively. Despite all the debate about Getz and Nix 2nd base is really the only infield position that's important enough to upgrade with someone like Polanco who won't cost an arm and a leg. Like it or not Beckham and Alexei are entrenched at their positions unless either is traded.

 

Not sure if your reference about being a world class sprinter was in reference to Morgan or just fielding in general and for the most part I'd agree that positioning is important. However world class speed plays a large role in determining range factor which counts heavily in UZR or UZR/150 ratings both of which are excellent for Morgan. It's also not very often that you get that kind of speed with a howitzer for an arm.

Edited October 29, 2009 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I think alot of people just see him as too much of an expense at a position that has decent (but definitely not good) options for league minimum. He could be in for a big payday and we have bigger issues (though, if the price was right, he would solve the leadoff spot while playing excellent defense).

Hudson fits the bill he just will be more expensive to sign then Polanco will. I see Hudson getting 4-5 years whereas Polanco could be signed for 2-3 years and at less money per year.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I think a lot of people are really getting used to Getz being our starting 2B. A lot of it comes from the Sox brass mentioning infield shall stay intact.

In order to improve the defense, one of the 3 key infield positions (3rd, SS, 2nd) needs to be upgraded. The Sox already have cheap players at all 3 positions and Alexei and Beckham will stay put at 3rd and SS. Polanco would provide a defensive veteran presence among the other 2 young players helping them to settle down and improve defensively along with being at those positions for another year. With the starting pitching the Sox have veteran leadership and improved D could carry them to another title.

[southsider2k5]

You are most likely going to see some decent improvement from at least two spots on the infield, as Getz and Becks start their second years. We already saw a large step forward from Beckham at 3B, to being an OK fielder. He range really improved as the season went on and he settled in a bit. Ramirez will probably also have a better year, being his second straight season at the same position in the majors.

 

After that, it depends on what we do with the outfield. We already have Rios out there, who is a huge step over anything we have been running into CF or RF for years now.

[chetkincaid]

This is an excellent debate. Would you rather wait for Getz to develop, or would you rather sign an aging vet like Polanco? I'm torn...

 

I say which ever route gets the White Sox closer to the World Series in the next couple years while we have this outstanding pitching.

[bigruss]

This is an excellent debate. Would you rather wait for Getz to develop, or would you rather sign an aging vet like Polanco? I'm torn...

 

I say which ever route gets the White Sox closer to the World Series in the next couple years while we have this outstanding pitching.

If Im spending money to bring in a second basemen its for Hudson, no one else on the FA market is worth it.

[chetkincaid]

If Im spending money to bring in a second basemen its for Hudson, no one else on the FA market is worth it.

 

 

Hudson could probably be had too. Wasn't he benched by the Dodgers for the playoffs?

[Texsox]

There are so many factors to a WS victory coming together. You also see a few youngsters develop and become big contributors. Those guys like Garland that have career years at exactly the right time. I'd be for giving Rios the position in 2010. He's a veteran and should have a decent to better than average season. I'm also content with leaving the left side of the infield intact and letting them grow. So it does seem the right side of the field, all the way to the wall, is ripe for defensive improvement. I just do not want to dig a hole to fill in elsewhere.

[Chicago White Sox]

This is an excellent debate. Would you rather wait for Getz to develop, or would you rather sign an aging vet like Polanco? I'm torn...

Unfortunately, I don't think you even have the choice. IMO, the Sox need to use their financial resources to fill an OF spot, find a DH, and hopefully bring in a 2nd lefty. I just don't see us having the money to upgrade 2B, especially when we have three cheap options in Getz, Nix and Retherford.

 

Having said that, I can see the value of bringing in a veteran as a stopgap at 2B. However, I think the Sox would have to be pretty sure that Retherford will be the 2B of the future. Otherwise, you have to give Getz the starting spot for development sake.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

If Im spending money to bring in a second basemen its for Hudson, no one else on the FA market is worth it.

Hudson is the best no doubt but with salary concerns ,signing the best available player at the position limits what you can do in other areas. Polanco is an American leaguer and knows the hitters and knows our pitchers , which helps his positioning, which helps his defense. Hudson would have to rely on advance scouting which a lot of us have had concerns about. These concerns in the past about advanced scouting are in regards to why pitchers the Sox hadn't seen before gave them problems and you can also apply it to why a guy with plus speed like Getz seemed so limited in his range to acquire negative defensive ratings for the year.

[southsider2k5]

Guys, there is about zero chance that we sign a second baseman. We are young and cheap there with two kids, plus a CJ Retheford in the wings if he wanted. With the other holes on the team, and the tight budget we are going to be looking at, it isn't going to happen.

[Texsox]

Guys, there is about zero chance that we sign a second baseman. We are young and cheap there with two kids, plus a CJ Retheford in the wings if he wanted. With the other holes on the team, and the tight budget we are going to be looking at, it isn't going to happen.

I agree 99% with you. However, young and cheap is a great trade chip, perhaps one of the best ones he's got. I've learned to never say never with K-Dubya.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Unfortunately, I don't think you even have the choice. IMO, the Sox need to use their financial resources to fill an OF spot, find a DH, and hopefully bring in a 2nd lefty. I just don't see us having the money to upgrade 2B, especially when we have three cheap options in Getz, Nix and Retherford.

 

Having said that, I can see the value of bringing in a veteran as a stopgap at 2B. However, I think the Sox would have to be pretty sure that Retherford will be the 2B of the future. Otherwise, you have to give Getz the starting spot for development sake.

I think finding a DH should be way down the Sox list of Sox needs. Pitching and defense will take them a long way. The development of Beckham , Quentin being injury free , Rios showing signs of having a pulse and a deep bench would go a long way towards rotating the DH position among those on the 25 man roster. This would also give regulars decent amounts of rest in an age when they no longer have the use of uppers to get them through what is a long grind of a season.

[chetkincaid]

I think finding a DH should be way down the Sox list of Sox needs. Pitching and defense will take them a long way. The development of Beckham , Quentin being injury free , Rios showing signs of having a pulse and a deep bench would go a long way towards rotating the DH position among those on the 25 man roster. This would also give regulars decent amounts of rest in an age when they no longer have the use of uppers to get them through what is a long grind of a season.

 

 

Isn't Kotsay considered a better defensive first baseman than Paulie? How about Paulie being the DH? I could see KW staying cheap and going that route. But We would miss Kotsay's value off of the bench.

 

I just don't see the team spending a lot of money this year. I hope I'm wrong!

[Texsox]

I just don't see the team spending a lot of money this year. I hope I'm wrong!

 

Looking at the division, I do not think it will take much dollars, the team should already be more than competitive. I imagine more than a few pundits and analysts will pick the Sox to win the division. To win the AL, that may take a couple upgrades or guys having career years at the right time.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Guys, there is about zero chance that we sign a second baseman. We are young and cheap there with two kids, plus a CJ Retheford in the wings if he wanted. With the other holes on the team, and the tight budget we are going to be looking at, it isn't going to happen.

I agree the budget is a major concern , however that just means that one of the high priced vets might have to be moved and unfortunately the most likely candidate is Mark Buehrle . Replacing MB with Hudson would be a huge risk especially with Garcia on his last legs. I wonder if the Nationals would be interesting in moving John Lannan and Nyger Morgan. Would take a decent package of say Buehrle + part of his salary , Getz , Hudson ..more ? I know , I know how could I even think of sending MB to the Nationals of all places ? I have no idea what the salaries of Lannan and Morgan are so I don't know how much salary could be freed up by such a deal. Too bad it seems like we're stuck with Rios.

[Texsox]

I'd be against any realistic plan that starts off trade Buehrle.That is the kind of hole digging that just never seems to accomplish anything.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Isn't Kotsay considered a better defensive first baseman than Paulie? How about Paulie being the DH? I could see KW staying cheap and going that route. But We would miss Kotsay's value off of the bench.

 

I just don't see the team spending a lot of money this year. I hope I'm wrong!

Yes he probably is. As much as Ozzie liked Kotsay he's really only a 1st baseman at this point in his career. Old and slow is not a recipe for a backup outfielder even if his stick is still functional. If the Sox don't want to spend money on the DH then I'm sure PK will be used a lot there if he's not traded. Keeping Kotsay limits the versatility of the bench but getting Polanco and Morgan would go a long way towards keeping Kotsay in the mix.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I'd be against any realistic plan that starts off trade Buehrle.That is the kind of hole digging that just never seems to accomplish anything.

I am too. If there's a way to improve the infielder and outfielder D without giving up starting pitcher I'm all for it.

[qwerty]

I think finding a DH should be way down the Sox list of Sox needs. Pitching and defense will take them a long way. The development of Beckham , Quentin being injury free , Rios showing signs of having a pulse and a deep bench would go a long way towards rotating the DH position among those on the 25 man roster. This would also give regulars decent amounts of rest in an age when they no longer have the use of uppers to get them through what is a long grind of a season.

 

Our starting rotation is clearly set, something that not many teams, if any, can match, as it stands at this point.

A good dh is absolutely vital to the white sox success. I would argue we need to above average bats to come in this off-season plus at least two arms down in the pen. Konerko will likely never hit much more than 30 in a season again. As far as i am concerned quentin is nothing more a question mark, we cannot bank on his 2008 numbers, as much as everyone here wants to. A happy medium of his 2008 and 2009 season is much more realistic. We lack any legit thunder in the line-up at this point. Replacing dye and thome's production is gonna be quite the task, what they have done while playing in chicago has been taken for granted. How many people in the pen is anyone exactly confident to get outs on a consistent basis? If you add them all up, you may come to about two and a half. Very big problem we have in regards to the bullpen as it stands. There is a reason there is a strong correlation to a good bullpen and in season + post season success.

 

Unless the sox starters go 7+ all season long while limiting the opposition to 3 or less, we would be in just fine and dandy shape. Too bad that is just not gonna happen. Kw has a lot of work to do this off-season to field a championship caliber team, which i cannot see done without four players brought in one way or another (hudson in the pen would drastically help... potentially that is).