New abortion Law

[HuskyCaucasian]

I believe it's 17, but 16 with parental consent. Whereas 15 is illegal with or without parental consent.

If that is the case, then it is illegal to have an abortion under the age of 17 without a parent's signature. Simple as that. End of argument. None of this "well, tell the parents" stuff. no. If a 16 year old daughter cant get lipo without mom or dad's signature, then they dont have the "right" to have an abortion.

[Controlled Chaos]

If that is the case, then it is illegal to have an abortion under the age of 17 without a parent's signature. Simple as that. End of argument. None of this "well, tell the parents" stuff. no. If a 16 year old daughter cant get lipo without mom or dad's signature, then they dont have the "right" to have an abortion.

 

Also, no notice is required in a medical emergency or if the girl declares in writing that she is a victim of sexual abuse. And a provision in the law allows girls to bypass parental notification by going before a judge, who would then have 48 hours to rule on the petition.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

Would be interesting to hear some female commentary on the subject. After all, it's their bodies we're talking about.

[southsider2k5]

Also, no notice is required in a medical emergency or if the girl declares in writing that she is a victim of sexual abuse. And a provision in the law allows girls to bypass parental notification by going before a judge, who would then have 48 hours to rule on the petition.

 

another crime being committed completely negates things in my eyes. Things like rape/incest/ etc, change things past normal.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Would be interesting to hear some female commentary on the subject. After all, it's their bodies we're talking about.

Per the request of the original posted, i aint goin' there.

[NorthSideSox72]

another crime being committed completely negates things in my eyes. Things like rape/incest/ etc, change things past normal.

I agree, and so those exceptions certainly seem reasonable.

 

[Controlled Chaos]

Per the request of the original posted, i aint goin' there.

Thx.

[Balta1701]

Like I said, I see it in a big picture sense as how you view the maturity level of a 17 year old. As a society we have deemed them incapable of deciding things for themselves. The only reason this is different is because it is abortion, and not something less controversial.

So wait 1 second...probably a thread derailer here...but you're arguing we've deemed them incapable of making decisions for themselves, but don't we charge them with crimes as adults all the time? Isn't the U.S. one of only 2 countries (along with the ideal Democracy which is Somalia) that has not ratified the U.N. convention on rights of the child because our criminal justice system wants to be able to treat them as adults?

[BigSqwert]

I'd like to hear people's perceived benefit for requiring the parental consent. Is it to avoid the abortion in the first place? To have a chance to scold their kid?

[HuskyCaucasian]

I'd like to hear people's perceived benefit for requiring the parental consent. Is it to avoid the abortion in the first place? To have a chance to scold their kid?

it's to abide by the rest of the law. If you cant get bigger boobies before the age of 18 without the parents signing off, what gives them the ability to have an abortion? If you want to use the "its their body" argument, then it should apply to this as well.

[Balta1701]

it's to abide by the rest of the law. If you cant get bigger boobies before the age of 18 without the parents signing off, what gives them the ability to have an abortion? If you want to use the "its their body" argument, then it should apply to this as well.

Saying "It's the law" doesn't answer his question about the purpose of teh law.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Saying "It's the law" doesn't answer his question about the purpose of teh law.

I guess I misread the intent behind the question. I know the argument he is trying to make.

[HuskyCaucasian]

I'd like to hear people's perceived benefit for requiring the parental consent. Is it to avoid the abortion in the first place? To have a chance to scold their kid?

I guess my counter question is this: at what age should a child be allowed to do whatever they want without a parents say?

The whole reason behind parental consent is to maintain the authority structure of the family. Shouldn't the parent have say what the child does until a certain age? We can debate the age. but the law seems to say its anywhere between 16 and 18.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Athomeboy_2000

[southsider2k5]

So wait 1 second...probably a thread derailer here...but you're arguing we've deemed them incapable of making decisions for themselves, but don't we charge them with crimes as adults all the time? Isn't the U.S. one of only 2 countries (along with the ideal Democracy which is Somalia) that has not ratified the U.N. convention on rights of the child because our criminal justice system wants to be able to treat them as adults?

 

Would you favor putting teenage girls in front of a judge to decide them competency for an abortion?

[Balta1701]

Would you favor putting teenage girls in front of a judge to decide them competency for an abortion?

I'll note that you didn't answer my question.

 

To answer yours...perhaps not a judge...but if there were some legal means by which a person could apply to get around this law based on specific familial issues, that'd satisfy me.

[Soxy]

Would be interesting to hear some female commentary on the subject. After all, it's their bodies we're talking about.

The big question is, why are 15 year olds getting abortions? Because they don't know how to use birth control? Because no on told them the ramifications of sex? Because there is no parental figure to guide them at all?

 

Honestly, I find these laws a whole hell of a lot less offensive than the 24 hour waiting period or the name publishing. My main concern is why would a young girl need an abortion? Where has she been failed that she reached this point (because if she can't make the decision to have one herself, then she also isn't fully responsible for getting into that position). In my mind that is the only interesting question.

[HuskyCaucasian]

PS: I have an e-mail out to my mom... who is an RN... as to the specifics on the medical age of consent.

[southsider2k5]

I'll note that you didn't answer my question.

 

To answer yours...perhaps not a judge...but if there were some legal means by which a person could apply to get around this law based on specific familial issues, that'd satisfy me.

 

Crime is different than medical procedures. Putting a 15 year old on the streets at 18 who killed someone is different than a 15 year old not getting an abortion because she was afraid to tell her parents. I think public safety becomes more important at some point. Kinda like yelling fire in a crowded theater.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I'd like to hear people's perceived benefit for requiring the parental consent. Is it to avoid the abortion in the first place? To have a chance to scold their kid?

 

Same reason minor's can't do many of the things they can not do without parental consent.

Edited November 2, 2009 by ChiSox_Sonix

[Balta1701]

The big question is, why are 15 year olds getting abortions? Because they don't know how to use birth control? Because no on told them the ramifications of sex? Because there is no parental figure to guide them at all?

 

Honestly, I find these laws a whole hell of a lot less offensive than the 24 hour waiting period or the name publishing. My main concern is why would a young girl need an abortion? Where has she been failed that she reached this point (because if she can't make the decision to have one herself, then she also isn't fully responsible for getting into that position). In my mind that is the only interesting question.

I think the answer to your question is that this country sets the standard really, really, really high before they take a family's kids away (probably correctly) and that's quite simply going to lead to some messy situations.

[Balta1701]

Crime is different than medical procedures. Putting a 15 year old on the streets at 18 who killed someone is different than a 15 year old not getting an abortion because she was afraid to tell her parents. I think public safety becomes more important at some point. Kinda like yelling fire in a crowded theater.

I'll note that you've taken "Charging them as an adult" and made the opposite option allowing them freely on the streets. That's something of a straw man since no one would be simply allowing them back onto the streets, but more importantly it's not germane to the discussion. The issue is why the law in 1 case says that you should treat a 15 year old like an adult and in another case you shouldn't.

[Soxy]

I think the answer to your question is that this country sets the standard really, really, really high before they take a family's kids away (probably correctly) and that's quite simply going to lead to some messy situations.

I don't think I buy that as the reason we have such a high teen pregnancy (and probably teen abortion) rate relative to other comparable countries.

[southsider2k5]

I'll note that you've taken "Charging them as an adult" and made the opposite option allowing them freely on the streets. That's something of a straw man since no one would be simply allowing them back onto the streets, but more importantly it's not germane to the discussion. The issue is why the law in 1 case says that you should treat a 15 year old like an adult and in another case you shouldn't.

 

That's because our juvenile justice system can't hold anyone past age 18. It isn't incredibly complex.

[Balta1701]

I don't think I buy that as the reason we have such a high teen pregnancy (and probably teen abortion) rate relative to other comparable countries.

True, but you've changed the question slightly I believe, from "how does the situation get to the point where a girl wouldn't tell her parents" to "why is the rate so high".

 

The latter is a very different sociological issue.

[Soxy]

True, but you've changed the question slightly I believe, from "how does the situation get to the point where a girl wouldn't tell her parents" to "why is the rate so high".

 

The latter is a very different sociological issue.

Sorry for the confusion, my only question here is why is the rate so high.

 

Although I imagine that teen girls that are more likely to get pregnant are also teens that will have parents that a.) they should be more afraid of or b.) parents that don't give a rats ass what their kids are up to.