knightni Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 QUOTE (klaus kinski @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 09:39 AM) Watching the Phillies this post season, I could see a destination for Linebrink That's an excellent idea. But would he waive his NTC to go there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 08:12 AM) He was asking a reporter. Its not like he was asking someone who had a personal stake in things. That makes a big difference. Eh, it still takes a little something. But the bigger personal stake is MG - he has to have access to the team to be effective, so its pretty ballsy for him to call out the team the way he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 09:20 AM) That's an excellent idea. But would he waive his NTC to go there? Linebrink would only make the problem worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 QUOTE (sircaffey @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 11:26 AM) Linebrink would only make the problem worse. I'd rather have 10 five hundred thousand dollar guys trying to pitch in the pen than have one $5 mil guy f***ing up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Yeah, when a veteran player is struggling they should lose all respect and accept getting their ass smoked by other players. It's not like they deserve any respect for all they have done in their career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 QUOTE (Tex @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 11:43 AM) Yeah, when a veteran player is struggling they should lose all respect and accept getting their ass smoked by other players. It's not like they deserve any respect for all they have done in their career. Everyone started out in the minors at one time or another. Who would you rather have, Brad Lidge or Daniel Hudson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 10:46 AM) Everyone started out in the minors at one time or another. Who would you rather have, Brad Lidge or Daniel Hudson? I'm not following you. My point is veterans should do not want someone in their face should not have to have someone in their face. At this point in their career, they know what they need to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 QUOTE (Tex @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 10:43 AM) Yeah, when a veteran player is struggling they should lose all respect and accept getting their ass smoked by other players. It's not like they deserve any respect for all they have done in their career. Why do people think being a vocal leader meaning only pointing out the negative things and getting in someone's face? You can be a vocal leader and help teammates adjust. Give him some of your own personal input. Help clear a teammates mind. When Everett was on the squad, you didn't hear about him complaining left and right and that's it. But he was the vocal leader of the squad because he would tell you what you needed to hear. PK & Dye, especially don't do that. I don't consider AJ a leader because I don't think he wants that tag and he doesn't strike me as that type of guy. Buehrle is kind of the same. He just wants to be one of the guys. We need an Orlando Cabrera. We need a Carl Everett. Look at the two teams playing in the playoffs. They have a strong vocal leader in each clubhouse. Rollions and Jeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 11:09 AM) Why do people think being a vocal leader meaning only pointing out the negative things and getting in someone's face? You can be a vocal leader and help teammates adjust. Give him some of your own personal input. Help clear a teammates mind. When Everett was on the squad, you didn't hear about him complaining left and right and that's it. But he was the vocal leader of the squad because he would tell you what you needed to hear. PK & Dye, especially don't do that. I don't consider AJ a leader because I don't think he wants that tag and he doesn't strike me as that type of guy. Buehrle is kind of the same. He just wants to be one of the guys. We need an Orlando Cabrera. We need a Carl Everett. Look at the two teams playing in the playoffs. They have a strong vocal leader in each clubhouse. Rollions and Jeter. OK, let me change to, I don't think a veteran player should have to have a cheerleader in his face if he doesn't want it. Give the guy some respect. A leader should have more than one approach based on who he is trying to lead. Perhaps there are some guys that need a kick, some a carrot, and some you should just stay away from. Perhaps we have too many one trick leaders in the club house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 10:38 AM) I'd rather have 10 five hundred thousand dollar guys trying to pitch in the pen than have one $5 mil guy f***ing up. I read that more as him saying that Linebrink would make Phillies problem worse, not that his departure would make the Sox worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 QUOTE (Tex @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 12:12 PM) OK, let me change to, I don't think a veteran player should have to have a cheerleader in his face if he doesn't want it. Give the guy some respect. A leader should have more than one approach based on who he is trying to lead. Perhaps there are some guys that need a kick, some a carrot, and some you should just stay away from. Perhaps we have too many one trick leaders in the club house. They also shouldn't have "cheerleaders" booted from the club if they don't like their "cheerleading," which I think was insinuated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 When saying the sox need a vocal leader I don't see that person getting in peoples faces. I see it more of that person lifting the spirits of the team after a bad loss or a rough stretch. Keeping the clubhouse loose and having fun. You can look at video of Everett and I don't want to get the love fest started, but Rowand as well. He played hard and rooted for everyone to play hard. It was well documented when he was traded for Thome that we were losing a leader, but KW quickly came out and said were getting another leader and great attitude in Thome. Which is true, but they're different. I just think the "leaders" we had in 08 just didn't fit in, plain and simple. People thought, especially Ozzie, that OC wasn't setting a good example by complaining to the scorer about those errors then trying to lead later when we were heading into the postseason. Ozzie also said that by that time it was too late for OC to try become a vocal leader. That he was the leader of the white sox. So obviously they bumped heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 11:13 AM) I read that more as him saying that Linebrink would make Phillies problem worse, not that his departure would make the Sox worse. That. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 who was getting in people's faces in 05? Timo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 12:21 PM) who was getting in people's faces in 05? Timo? Carl Everett? AJ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 12:21 PM) who was getting in people's faces in 05? Timo? Two posts ahead of you. Rowand and Everett were two big ones. And to answer Tex, it's not bad to have guys who can get themselves up for games and keep to themselves. At the same time, not everyone is like that. Some people, do need motivation, support, etc. from other teammates. Some people do need a good yelling. And some people can do it by themselves. The main problem I think Mark alludes to is that the regime in that locker room now, only knows, respects, and wishes for one way and that's their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I know it's early in his career, but I get the feeling that Beckham could emerge as a vocal leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Nov 4, 2009 -> 12:05 PM) I know it's early in his career, but I get the feeling that Beckham could emerge as a vocal leader. I believe Jake Peavy will definitely help as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgonzo4sox Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Nov 4, 2009 -> 02:02 PM) I believe Jake Peavy will definitely help as well. I totally agree: Peavy and Beckham are going to be great clubhouse/dugout influences in 2010. They are both great competitors and want to win. Hopefully with Beckham past his rookie hazing, he will speak up some more. Peavy of course already does speak up, but we didn't see much of him in 2009 because of the injury. My favorite Sox game of 2009 that I attended (I didn't go to the perfect game) was Peavy's Sept. 25 2-0 blanking of the Tigers, in which Beckham provided the only offense with a 2-run blast (I was standing on the Fundamentals deck near where it landed). Peavy and Beckham were both great in a completely meaningless game for the Sox, and you have to give them a lot of credit for battling at the end of the season. In a TV interview after the game, Beckham said he told Peavy he was great and that he can foresee a World Series in 2010. Peavy and Beckham will hopefully both step up and exercise leadership to make this happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Nov 4, 2009 -> 12:05 PM) I know it's early in his career, but I get the feeling that Beckham could emerge as a vocal leader. I really get that feeling too. The kid is special from what I have seen so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 4, 2009 -> 01:54 PM) I really get that feeling too. The kid is special from what I have seen so far. It's only been a month but I miss him already. I can't even imagine what pain his girlfriends must go through while he's on the road collecting more girlfriends. This offseason thing just isn't going to work for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 That was an absolutely outstanding Q&A!!! Big time kudos. Some great questions and some great insight. I still have to go back to the veteran passiveness. I'm not saying that you need somebody in your face...but the quite somber leadership needs to get updated at some point. Yes...winning solves chemistry problems...but when you don't win consistantly what's the point. I'd really like to see a change in that area as I have the past few years. It almost gets into the whole "Lovie Smith" area with the Bears as far as I'm concerned (and that's driving me up a wall right now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 03:31 PM) Eh, it still takes a little something. But the bigger personal stake is MG - he has to have access to the team to be effective, so its pretty ballsy for him to call out the team the way he did. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 09:31 AM) Eh, it still takes a little something. But the bigger personal stake is MG - he has to have access to the team to be effective, so its pretty ballsy for him to call out the team the way he did. Or they just set him up to be the leaker of info to soften the blow from this trade... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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