AWhiteSoxinNJ Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 07:35 PM) Why exactly did Hudson "lose his job"? Also, how do his overall numbers from last year stack up with the White Sox roster even with his poor final month? Poor overall play (fielding and at the plate) is what I read when he lost his job to Ronnie Belliard the last month of the season and in the playoffs. Belliard was hurt in the last week of the season and he STILL started and played over Hudson. Tehan at 3B and Beckham at 2B >>>> Beckham at 3B and Hudson at 2B. Hudson was frozen out of the free agent market this past offseason, and may find a similar fate waiting for him after losing his job late in the season to Ronnie Belliard. http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpag...MLB&id=3415 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAfan Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 For this deal to really benefit the Sox, Mark Tehean must hit considerably better in 2010 than he has hit in 2009, 2008, or 2007. Perhaps there is some chance of that at the Cell, by playing one position (3b) instead of being moved around, and in a lineup that will be better than the Royals' lineup was over those years. I'm not holding my breath. I guess the best that can be said is that Tehean is at least no worse than Chris Getz, and has some chance of being quite a bit better. The main reason I like this move is that it puts Gordon Beckham at 2B, where I thought he belonged all along. We want this kid to be a right handed Chase Utley, giving us superior offense from a position that rarely exhibits it. By moving Beckham, the Cuban Viciedo can naturally develop as a 3B and take over for Tehean when he's ready. If Tehean hits well enough to keep Viciedo in the minors, then the Sox are way ahead. If not, then we no longer have a roadblock at 3B. Tehean could be moved again when Viciedo is ready. The added bonus is we've unloaded Josh Fields, who went from 20-HR promise to being a whiner, when he really should have been looking at his own performance. In short -- this deal isn't likely to pay immediate dividends -- but it does re-balance the Sox infield in a good way at very little cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 05:59 PM) Poor overall play (fielding and at the plate) is what I read when he lost his job to Ronnie Belliard the last month of the season and in the playoffs. Belliard was hurt in the last week of the season and he STILL started and played over Hudson. Tehan at 3B and Beckham at 2B >>>> Beckham at 3B and Hudson at 2B. http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpag...MLB&id=3415 Bolded: Yes because Belliard put up a 1.034 OPS for the Dodgers, he better get the start in the playoffs. Another reason why he lost playing time is because he was making an extra $10,000 for each PA in the final month of the season. Even with his struggles he put up a .350+ OBP and .710+ OPS in Sept/Oct. That's some moderately productive struggling. I'd also like to see an argument that supports all those '>'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Looking at Teahen's split stats shows he killed the Sox and does very well at the Cell. However he sucks against the Tigers and Twins and is decent against the Tribe..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 10:37 PM) I'll never understand your desire to get rid of Alexei. Simply put, he's worth so much more than he's making that you'd have to get a ton back in a trade to move him. I don't see anyone, including the Red Sox, paying the price KW would be looking for. Also, I think 2B is where Beckham belongs. IMO, that's where he's best suited to play and offers the best value to the club. Moving Konerko would be great, but why would anyone want him at $12 million? Yes, he had a solid season but there are so many 1B/DH type players on the market that he seems somewhat untradeable without giving some cash or taking back some contract (not necessarily bad) back. Finally, while I think Danks has a great future ahead of himself, I don't think you can start the season with him in your lineup. We already have enough question marks throughout the lineup. If some things do go wrong, you don't want Danks struggling in the #9 spot to add fuel to the fire. If Alexei could improve on his 2008, while playing a solid SS, there wouldn't be a question of moving him--even if has mental lapses and a low baseball IQ. Everyone thought Alexei was a building block like Quentin after his 2008 season. I'm not sold on him being able to improve on his rookie year. His trade value and the talent the sox could get in return, may be too hard to pass up. If Beckham could play SS, getting someone else to play SS wouldn't be hard. The sox have few top level talent guys coming up in the high minors--except for Flowers and maybe Danks. The others are 2+ years away. I only said that Konerko would have to be moved in order to afford a guy like Figgins. I know it isn't likely. I also said that Danks prob. isn't ready until later in the year. Even then, he shouldn't be counted on to hit anywhere except 8 or 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) A league average bat has value if he can help a team out defensively, but Teahen isn’t a great defender. His UZR at third base is downright terrible, which is why it should be no surprise that the White Sox apparently plan on using him as an outfielder. He’s okay in a corner, but he’s nothing special, and the combination of an average bat and average defense in a corner outfield spot makes for a below average player overall. This just sucks. Beckham had turned himself into a damn good defender at 3B. Teahen sucks at third base. Move f***ing Teahen to second and platoon him with Getz. WTF with Teahen being named our third baseman? Why does KW love Teahen who can't field and is not a good enough hitter to be playing 3B?? He should be platooning with NIX at second. My god. So defensively both 3B and SS next season will be atrocious on paper. I also don't like the idea of facing Fields and Getz in so many games. They will have so much motivation against us. KC really should try to sign Dye on the cheap and have him conclude his career there where he played before. They'd have 3 Sox in the starting lineup plus Olivo. Weird. To those of you who I respect ... please comment on what sense it makes to put Teahen at 3B and Beckham at 2B instead of putting Teahen at second platooning with Nix. I don't understand it at all. Our starting pitchers may be pulling their hair out next year when balls are hit on the ground. Edited November 7, 2009 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 06:28 PM) This just sucks. Beckham had turned himself into a damn good defender at 3B. Teahen sucks at third base. Move f***ing Teahen to second and platoon him with Getz. WTF with Teahen being named our third baseman? Why does KW love Teahen who can't field and is not a good enough hitter to be playing 3B?? He should be platooning with NIX at second. My god. So defensively both 3B and SS next season will be atrocious on paper. I also don't like the idea of facing Fields and Getz in so many games. They will have so much motivation against us. KC really should try to sign Dye on the cheap and have him conclude his career there where he played before. They'd have 3 Sox in the starting lineup. Weird. He's even worse at 2B than he is at 3B. You don't want that. Realistically, he should be playing RF or LF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Yes but at 2B he can platoon with Nix and if he sucks big dog, we can use Nix more often than Teahen at 2B. If he sucks at third are we gonna move Gordon back? I just became a lover of Gordon's defense as the season progressed at 3B. I really don't understand moving him to second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 07:38 PM) Yes but at 2B he can platoon with Nix and if he sucks big dog, we can use Nix more often than Teahen at 2B. If he sucks at third are we gonna move Gordon back? I just became a lover of Gordon's defense as the season progressed at 3B. I really don't understand moving him to second. Stone for example thinks that Teahen is an above average third baseman. The Sox think that Gordon will be a way better 2B than he is 3B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 07:37 PM) He's even worse at 2B than he is at 3B. You don't want that. Realistically, he should be playing RF or LF. Honestly, I think he's done fairly well considering they have a new position for him to play every month. Let's put him at 3rd, let him settle in, rake at the Cell, and watch Gordon do the same. All these UZR ratings and other metrics are going to be thrown around all offseason, but I think we'd be best just waiting til April and watching the kid play. This is not nearly the end of the world that some are making it out to be. Personally, I think it's something to be excited about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 04:43 PM) This is not nearly the end of the world that some are making it out to be. Personally, I think it's something to be excited about. If we could somehow get Teahen to flash the form he was showing as a kid in 2006 this would be a spectacular move. Man he cost us a lot that year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 07:50 PM) If we could somehow get Teahen to flash the form he was showing as a kid in 2006 this would be a spectacular move. Man he cost us a lot that year He went pretty crazy with the stick in the second half of 06'. I think that is when many thought he was reaching his potential. Unfortunately, he did not maintain that. However, he's still a relatively young guy who should be in his prime years, so hopefully we can get him on track and reap the benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 04:54 PM) He went pretty crazy with the stick in the second half of 06'. I think that is when many thought he was reaching his potential. Unfortunately, he did not maintain that. However, he's still a relatively young guy who should be in his prime years, so hopefully we can get him on track and reap the benefits. If there's ever a year for Walker to earn his salary...between Teahen and Rios, he's got 2 guys who have the talent to rip a hole in the central, but who haven't lived up to it the last couple years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 08:00 PM) If there's ever a year for Walker to earn his salary...between Teahen and Rios, he's got 2 guys who have the talent to rip a hole in the central, but who haven't lived up to it the last couple years. Yeah, great point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyuen Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 03:25 PM) Rios should play CF he seems to want to play there and is a GG'er Thats insane, don't you have to actually win the award to be a gold glover? Hes not that good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (docsox24 @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 07:11 PM) Thats insane, don't you have to actually win the award to be a gold glover? Hes not that good No, because Gold Gloves are crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (docsox24 @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 07:11 PM) Thats insane, don't you have to actually win the award to be a gold glover? Hes not that good Well, more importantly he's won a Fielding Bible award as well as finishing 2nd and 5th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 08:18 PM) Well, more importantly he's won a Fielding Bible award as well as finishing 2nd and 5th. Dewan has one of the better metrics around. If he says Rios is a good fielder, i'm going to assume he's a good fielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (Ozzie Ball @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 05:24 PM) Ne he's not. He makes a very reasonable point and then backs it up satisfactorily with statistics. Statistics on the player they got rid of, not the players they got back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyuen Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 07:30 PM) Dewan has one of the better metrics around. If he says Rios is a good fielder, i'm going to assume he's a good fielder. Good fielder and gold glover are different animals, as are all star and mvp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (docsox24 @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 08:29 PM) Good fielder and gold glover are different animals, as are all star and mvp. Gold Glove recenty has been based on name value, All Star and MVP are based on production. You arent going to get an all star start or an MVP trophy if you arent one of if not the best at your position. Plenty of gold gloves are awarded every year to players based on their name(cough*jeter*cough) when there are plenty of players out there that are heads and tails better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (docsox24 @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 08:29 PM) Good fielder and gold glover are different animals, as are all star and mvp. Fielding Bible >>>>>>>>>>> Gold Glove And the Fielding Bible says he's an elite defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 08:35 PM) Gold Glove recenty has been based on name value, All Star and MVP are based on production. You arent going to get an all star start or an MVP trophy if you arent one of if not the best at your position. Plenty of gold gloves are awarded every year to players based on their name(cough*jeter*cough) when there are plenty of players out there that are heads and tails better. You don't need any of this, only 1 word required: Palmeiro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 06:42 PM) You don't need any of this, only 1 word required: Palmeiro You can make a serious list if you wanted beyond that one. Hunter and Jeter come to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyuen Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 08:44 PM) You can make a serious list if you wanted beyond that one. Hunter and Jeter come to mind. oh yeah there are plenty of guys who won it based on name or bat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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