Joey Votto available?

[beck72]

MLB Trade Rumors speculates that Joey Votto could be dealt, esp. if a team takes on a big contract like Aarong Harang or Bronson Arroyo [both making over $12 mill for 2010, then have $2 mill. buyouts in 2011]. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

 

My question, what would it take to get him? It would probably take a SP like Floyd / Danks and Flowers to be a starting point, and even then I don't know if the sox would have enough. Thoughts? Votto's LH bat would awful in nice at 1b until 2013 when he could become a free agent.

[Jordan4life_2007]

MLB Trade Rumors speculates that Joey Votto could be dealt, esp. if a team takes on a big contract like Aarong Harang or Bronson Arroyo [both making over $12 mill for 2010, then have $2 mill. buyouts in 2011]. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

 

My question, what would it take to get him? It would probably take a SP like Floyd / Danks and Flowers to be a starting point, and even then I don't know if the sox would have enough. Thoughts? Votto's LH bat would awful in nice at 1b until 2013 when he could become a free agent.

 

Almost as big a pipe as Adrian Gonzalez. And MLB trade rumors speculating that a stud such as Votto could be available is no different than me speculating that I could somehow bang Ice Tea's wife Coco if I were to run into her.

[ThunderBolt]

The better mark might be Brandon Phillips. He's flown under the radar a bit, but he's a very, good player.

[balfanman]

Almost as big a pipe as Adrian Gonzalez. And MLB trade rumors speculating that a stud such as Votto could be available is no different than me speculating that I could somehow bang Ice Tea's wife Coco if I were to run into her.

 

So why couldn't we do this? I brought this up a week or so ago. We have been dreaming up scenarios for Gonzales for a couple of weeks now and if we could get Gonzales then we could get Votto. We have a G. M. who thinks big and knows how to get things done.

 

It would depend, as always, of what the other team thinks of our available players. If we take back one of their big contract pitchers would something like Hudson, Flowers, Nunez, AA prospect, A prospect for Votto, Hurang/Arroyo work?

[ThunderBolt]

I'm also a fan of getting Homer Bailey, which opens up trading Hudson and Danks or Floyd for a big bat.

[LittleHurt05]

So why couldn't we do this? I brought this up a week or so ago. We have been dreaming up scenarios for Gonzales for a couple of weeks now and if we could get Gonzales then we could get Votto. We have a G. M. who thinks big and knows how to get things done.

 

It would depend, as always, of what the other team thinks of our available players. If we take back one of their big contract pitchers would something like Hudson, Flowers, Nunez, AA prospect, A prospect for Votto, Hurang/Arroyo work?

 

with the Rios/Peavy trades, KW has already said that we dont have money for a big FA signing this winter. How would we be able to take on a big (and bad) contract like Harang/Arroyo??? Our #5 spot in the rotation is already taken care of cheap with Garcia/Hudson, why would you pay your fifth starter $7-8 million for the same production?

[balfanman]

with the Rios/Peavy trades, KW has already said that we dont have money for a big FA signing this winter. How would we be able to take on a big (and bad) contract like Harang/Arroyo??? Our #5 spot in the rotation is already taken care of cheap with Garcia/Hudson, why would you pay your fifth starter $7-8 million for the same production?

 

I don't have all the answers, or even any for that matter, but I believe that if Sox management thinks that our pitching is good enough they won't hesitate to spend more to go for it all. I think that our biggest need right now is a big, left handed bat and Votto or Gonzales fill that bill.

[Steve9347]

The better mark might be Brandon Phillips. He's flown under the radar a bit, but he's a very, good player.

Now this I like.

[RockRaines]

Votto would be a perfect fit, LH power bat, can play 1B or DH. I am not sure it would take Floyd or Danks, but Danks2+Hudson+more maybe could be attractive? We would have to clean out our minor league system for Votto.

[Chisoxfn]

I absolutely love the idea of Joey Votto. However, I continue to state that I will not trade Danks/Floyd. They are just to important to the long-term and current future of this club.

 

I would consider giving up most of our minor leaguers for a guy like Votto but I doubt that deal would have much interest in the Reds.

[Kalapse]

Dear god I hate that site. Yes the Reds need to cut costs but how does Votto enter into the equation? He doesn't, people just assume that he'll be dealt because Yonder Alonso is waiting in the wings. Joey Votto has turned into one of the best hitters in the game and has but 2 years of service under his belt, he's the face of a losing franchise, there's no incentive to trade him. If they were so inclined to deal him he'd have considerably more value than Adrian Gonzalez seeing as how he's still under team control for 4 more years.

 

They're going to dump 1 or more of Brandon Phillips, Bronson Arroyo, Aaron Harang and Francisco Cordero seeing as how they're the ones making all the money, they do have trade value and they're not the face of the franchise.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Dear god I hate that site. Yes the Reds need to cut costs but how does Votto enter into the equation? He doesn't, people just assume that he'll be dealt because Yonder Alonso is waiting in the wings. Joey Votto has turned into one of the best hitters in the game and has but 2 years of service under his belt, he's the face of a losing franchise, there's no incentive to trade him. If they were so inclined to deal him he'd have considerably more value than Adrian Gonzalez seeing as how he's still under team control for 4 more years.

 

They're going to dump 1 or more of Brandon Phillips, Bronson Arroyo, Aaron Harang and Francisco Cordero seeing as how they're the ones making all the money, they do have trade value and they're not the face of the franchise.

It's not their fault that others cannot comprehend what's written very well. This is the quote:

A very intriguing trade chip could be young slugger Joey Votto, if the Reds wanted to make room for star prospect Yonder Alonso at first base. Another team could be convinced to take on a bad contract if it meant getting Votto, who isn't eligible for free agency until after the 2013 season.

So they're saying that the Reds are going to have to make a decision between Votto and Alonso, which everyone knows, and that if they choose to deal Votto, they could package him with a bad contract to also dump salary in the deal. Instead of it being Harang/Arroyo + cash for nothing, they could do Votto + Harang/Arroyo for prospects. Doesn't sound like too far fetched of an idea to me. And they are NOT saying that the Reds would trade Votto straight-up for prospects either as has been mentioned here.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[Chisoxfn]

Why trade Votto when you could package Alonso for someone. Or Package Alonso with others. It isn't like Votto is about to become a FA.

[Kalapse]

It's not their fault that others cannot comprehend what's written very well. This is the quote:

 

So they're saying that the Reds are going to have to make a decision between Votto and Alonso, which everyone knows, and that if they choose to deal Votto, they could package him with a bad contract to also dump salary in the deal. Instead of it being Harang/Arroyo + cash for nothing, they could do Votto + Harang/Arroyo for prospects. Doesn't sound like too far fetched of an idea to me. And they are NOT saying that the Reds would trade Votto straight-up for prospects either as has been mentioned here.

I get that, people missed the point but I still don't buy it. So they'd move their best young, cheap player (he's proven far more than Jay Bruce) so they can move one or more of their bad contracts? No, that's just not working for me. You shouldn't have any trouble finding a trade partner for their more expensive players, they all have their value, it wouldn't be necessary to package one of the top 5 1B in the game to get a decent return. This isn't Ryan Howard and Jim Thome it's Matt LaPorta and Prince Fielder or Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Brian McCann.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Almost as big a pipe as Adrian Gonzalez. And MLB trade rumors speculating that a stud such as Votto could be available is no different than me speculating that I could somehow bang Ice Tea's wife Coco if I were to run into her.

Gonzalez is ***not*** a pipedream. He will be heavily shopped and most likely traded this winter. Whoever offers the best package of talent in the eyes of the Padres' FO will get him. The Padres have already sent out their brochures to season ticket holders, and in them there is no mention of their biggest star. Doesn't sound like a pipedream to me.

 

OTOH, the Reds do not have to trade Votto. They can trade Alonso instead, and they can wait to do it. Unlike the Padres who are looking at a payroll of around $40M or less, the Reds are still looking to be in the $65-70M range, and Votto is still pre-arb.

 

The better mark might be Brandon Phillips. He's flown under the radar a bit, but he's a very, good player.

We don't have the money. If Kenny doesn't have the money to sign Hideki Matsui as a DH then he doesn't have the money to trade for Phillips either. And the Reds are moving salary, not picking it up, so a deal where we send back another contract would be unlikely.

[Kalapse]

Why trade Votto when you could package Alonso for someone. Or Package Alonso with others. It isn't like Votto is about to become a FA.

Votto has already become one of the best hitters in the game with only 2 years under his belt, so he's young and cheap and exciting, he and Bruce are going to sell your season ticket packages. Yonder Alonso is a nice prospect but he's just that: a prospect you've got the real deal already and he's 3 years older than Alonso. It's not at all worth the risk.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I get that, people missed the point but I still don't buy it. So they'd move their best young, cheap player (he's proven far more than Jay Bruce) so they can move one or more of their bad contracts? No, that's just not working for me. You shouldn't have any trouble finding a trade partner for their more expensive players, they all have their value, it wouldn't be necessary to package one of the top 5 1B in the game to get a decent return. This isn't Ryan Howard and Jim Thome it's Matt LaPorta and Prince Fielder or Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Brian McCann.

I completely disagree with this.

 

Harang's deal: 2010:$12.5M, 2011:$12.75M ($2M buyout); guaranteed $14.5M through 2010

Arroyo's deal: 2010:$11M, 2011:$11M club option ($2M buyout); guaranteed $13M through 2010

 

These are some bad deals in this economy. They have *zero* positive value and the Reds will have to either eat salary to move them (which they won't want to do) or include pieces to make the deal sensible for another club.

 

The Votto part is speculation on their part, but you could also sub in Homer Bailey or Yonder Alonso as well. If these pitchers are $8-9M pitchers on the open market, then something has to be done to make up for the extra $4-6.5M they are due.

[Kalapse]

I completely disagree with this.

 

Harang's deal: 2010:$12.5M, 2011:$12.75M ($2M buyout); guaranteed $14.5M through 2010

Arroyo's deal: 2010:$11M, 2011:$11M club option ($2M buyout); guaranteed $13M through 2010

 

These are some bad deals in this economy. They have *zero* positive value and the Reds will have to either eat salary to move them (which they won't want to do) or include pieces to make the deal sensible for another club.

 

The Votto part is speculation on their part, but you could also sub in Homer Bailey or Yonder Alonso as well. If these pitchers are $8-9M pitchers on the open market, then something has to be done to make up for the extra $4-6.5M they are due.

I didn't word that properly. I meant those contracts aren't so bad that you'd have to include one of the top 5 1B in the game to move them, you pick up some of the contract or include one of your 2nd tier prospects and someone will take a gamble on them on a 1 year deal. There's very little starting pitching available in free agency.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I didn't word that properly. I meant those contracts aren't so bad that you'd have to include one of the top 5 1B in the game to move them, you pick up some of the contract or include one of your 2nd tier prospects and someone will take a gamble on them on a 1 year deal. There's very little starting pitching available in free agency.

I agree that you don't need to include Votto just to move him. I think Alonso or Bailey could do the same, and with Votto included the Reds would be looking at some nice prospects in the deal. The whole point of MLB Trade Rumors mentioning this is the idea that the Reds could turn a bad contract (let's say Arroyo) from a $6M overpayment into Arroyo + Votto, which would be about a $6M underpayment given Votto's salary vs. production. So in the second scenario the Reds wouldn't be able to get as much as they would by dealing Votto straight-up for prospects, but they'd still be able to get a couple blue-chip prospects IMO, while also shedding major cash.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[Harry Chappas]

With Harang and Arroyo in contract years, should they pitch for a new contract they could be worth holding on to.

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

Close thread:

 

General manager Walt Jocketty doesn't have any plans to trade Joey Votto.

 

"Oh God, no," Jocketty said. Upon news that the Reds were eager to slash payroll, some speculated that the Reds could pair Votto with an expensive veteran to make a trade more appealing, but Jocketty has no plans to trade the 26-year-old first baseman. Votto is the type of player Jocketty wants to acquire, not trade away.

[Kalapse]

Shocking.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Gonzalez is ***not*** a pipedream. He will be heavily shopped and most likely traded this winter. Whoever offers the best package of talent in the eyes of the Padres' FO will get him. The Padres have already sent out their brochures to season ticket holders, and in them there is no mention of their biggest star. Doesn't sound like a pipedream to me.

 

He's a pipedream for us as far as I'm concerned. Not that we wouldn't have enough to pull off a deal. I think we do. But I'm not willing to pay that price. I hope KW isn't either.