Kalapse Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 03:13 PM) Why are we to ones giivng up all the talent? Whay aren't we talking LAA prospects here? Konerko is no thrown in/out to any deal and LAA has to give up something. Konerko has almost no value at this point, he'll provide you decent production from the first base position (right around league average if you're lucky) while making nearly twice as much as he should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Konerko would be LAA's way of replacing Vlad but maintaining some flexibility with finances for 2011. I think we'd have to give LAA money in the original permutation of the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleCoastBias Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 05:14 PM) Yes, but it doesn't do you any good to weaken one strength to strengthen a weak area I don't know, I think it's easier to walk around with 2 normal legs than 1 really big leg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 01:21 PM) Konerko would be LAA's way of replacing Vlad but maintaining some flexibility with finances for 2011. I think we'd have to give LAA money in the original permutation of the deal. LAA also has a lot of money coming off the Books right now (Vlad, Figgins, Lackey). The bad news for them is that means they have to replace some of those guys, the good news is that means they have the money to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFirebird Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 03:15 PM) He very well could with the rotation and supporting offense cast we have now. In fact I don't see how this team could possibly win a damn thing without the addition of a big bat this offseason, the offense as presently constituted is awful not to mention the fact that he's a top 3 defensive 1B and we have an error prone right side of the infield. Oh and the whole flexibility that comes from your best player making $5M a year over the next 2 seasons. Kal...what do you think would be too much for an A Gon? Also, do you really see LAA taking on PK with no contracts coming back our way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Time to sit back and let the story develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 03:29 PM) Time to sit back and let the story develop. The thing is, this is going to be something that takes us until at least the winter meetings, if not longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (BFirebird @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 03:28 PM) Kal...what do you think would be too much for an A Gon? Also, do you really see LAA taking on PK with no contracts coming back our way? If they truly like Konerko (his name has come up in conjunction with the Angels every year since '05) I could see them taking on his deal, it's only 1 year and they do have a substantial portion of their payroll coming off the books and not a whole lot on the open market to spend it on. We wouldn't get much out of it aside from salary relief. They sported a ~$113M and currently have ~$77M in obligations for 2010 and a nice crop of cheap young players filling a few positions, there's definitely room for Konerko. Too much for Gonzalez? I can't say for sure, it'd really hurt giving up both Hudson and Flowers but I'd do it, they wouldn't get much more from me if that were the case, however. I don't think I could pull a trigger on any deal that sends Floyd/Danks +1 or 2 to San Diego luckily I don't think they'd have much interest in either of them anyway. Hudson +3 prospects not name Flowers would be fine in my book, if they value Hudson that highly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 12:53 PM) Can Jared Mitchell be traded? Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Wow on the rumor... and Steve shut up about Adrian being better than Miggy please. K thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFirebird Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 03:39 PM) If they truly like Konerko (his name has come up in conjunction with the Angels every year since '05) I could see them taking on his deal, it's only 1 year and they do have a substantial portion of their payroll coming off the books and not a whole lot on the open market to spend it on. We wouldn't get much out of it aside from salary relief. They sported a ~$113M and currently have ~$77M in obligations for 2010 and a nice crop of cheap young players filling a few positions, there's definitely room for Konerko. Too much for Gonzalez? I can't say for sure, it'd really hurt giving up both Hudson and Flowers but I'd do it, they wouldn't get much more from me if that were the case, however. I don't think I could pull a trigger on any deal that sends Floyd/Danks +1 or 2 to San Diego luckily I don't think they'd have much interest in either of them anyway. Hudson +3 prospects not name Flowers would be fine in my book, if they value Hudson that highly. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 01:13 PM) I don't think it's a good idea to go to the media outlets for things like this. If you're wrong, guess who guesses gets ridiculed? The same people who probably won't want to come out with any rumors in future dates. Also, I've always had the thought, that if national media gets ahold of it, that the other teams who really want said player, will try even harder to get things done faster. Hopefully it goes through, but I don't see it happening. It doesn't make enough sense from the Angels' perspective. The key to me is that I have a theory that the Angels part is an expanded piece of the deal and that in general the majority of the deal could be done without the Angels getting involved. Although I think Kenny would like some improved flexibility and is trying to get creative so that he can clear payroll to fill some other holes while holding onto an extra prospect or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 01:43 PM) Wow on the rumor... and Steve shut up about Adrian being better than Miggy please. K thanks. Cabrera's OPS the last 2 years; .915. Gonzalez; .913. He's not exactly better than him for his full career, but Gonzalez's numbers last year were just sick, and he's been trending upwards year after year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 FWiW: ESPN Radio hasnt said a word about it. Probably dont want to scoop Levine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 03:46 PM) Cabrera's OPS the last 2 years; .915. Gonzalez; .913. He's not exactly better than him for his full career, but Gonzalez's numbers last year were just sick, and he's been trending upwards year after year. A 2 year sample size is just ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I was just thinking about that Padres offense without Adrian Gonzalez. That team is going to be unwatchable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 03:46 PM) Cabrera's OPS the last 2 years; .915. Gonzalez; .913. He's not exactly better than him for his full career, but Gonzalez's numbers last year were just sick, and he's been trending upwards year after year. Adrian has had only one OPS+ over 150 which was last year. Miggy has done that 3 times before he turned 25 and just had a 142 OPS+ last year adjusting to the AL (which will probably continue to go up this comming season and is a year younger). I love Adrian but saying he's "better" than Miguel Cabrera is utterly stupid. And you can't even use the park factors cause Miggy hasn't had the glorious hitting parks in Florida or Detroit either. Sure you can say they are "close" or even Miggy is "slightly better" but don't bring that hyperbole in this thread. That's all I'm saying. Edited November 16, 2009 by SoxAce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 03:49 PM) Adrian has had only one OPS+ over 150 which was last year. Miggy has done that 3 times before he turned 25 and just had a 142 OPS+ last year adjusting to the AL (which will probably continue to go up this comming season and is a year younger). I love Adrian but saying he's "better" than Miguel Cabrera is utterly stupid. Sure you can say they are "close" or even Miggy is "slightly better" but don't bring that hyperbole in this thread. That's all I'm saying. I believe I said one could argue that he's better, and that he's a top 5 hitter in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 01:49 PM) Adrian has had only one OPS+ over 150 which was last year. Miggy has done that 3 times before he turned 25 and just had a 142 OPS+ last year adjusting to the AL (which will probably continue to go up this comming season and is a year younger). I love Adrian but saying he's "better" than Miguel Cabrera is utterly stupid. Sure you can say they are "close" or even Miggy is "slightly better" but don't bring that hyperbole in this thread. That's all I'm saying. Wasn't disagreeing with any of that. I think I was just trying to point out how close their number are. And it's entirely within the realm of possibility that the next couple years, Gonzalez could be genuinely better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFirebird Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) Even if this doesn't happen, I like the fact that KW sees the same bad offense that we see going into next year and is attempting to correct it. Edited November 16, 2009 by BFirebird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 03:52 PM) I believe I said one could argue that he's better, and that he's a top 5 hitter in the league. And your argument is based largely on an assumption that his numbers would improve upon leaving a pitcher's park, something that does not always come true and something that never happened to Cabrera. There is no argument to be made that isn't based on conjecture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 03:52 PM) I believe I said one could argue that he's better, and that he's a top 5 hitter in the league. Oh my bad.. "He's more impactful than the great Miguel Cabrera" who was playing 3B and RF before he made the switch to 1B. I just don't agree with that, but f*** the whole Miggy vs Adrian debate and just let the good times roll. QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 03:53 PM) And your argument is based largely on an assumption that his numbers would improve upon leaving a pitcher's park, something that does not always come true and something that never happened to Cabrera. There is no argument to be made that isn't based on conjecture. Exactly. IMO.. take Miggy out of the "great" hitters parks in Florida and Detroit and put him in the Cell and IMO.. he's more of a beast than Adrian would be here. Edited November 16, 2009 by SoxAce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjshoe04 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Adrian Gonzalez is a better hitter than Miguel Cabrera right now. I'm with Steve on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 03:52 PM) Wasn't disagreeing with any of that. I think I was just trying to point out how close their number are. And it's entirely within the realm of possibility that the next couple years, Gonzalez could be genuinely better. Close over a 2 year span in which Cabrera had by far his worst season out of the past 6 and Gonzalez had by far the best year of his career. That's dishonest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (almagest @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 04:48 PM) I was just thinking about that Padres offense without Adrian Gonzalez. That team is going to be unwatchable. Depends who the Sox and Angels send to the Padres, doesn't it? A team with Hudson, Viciedo, Brandon Wood, Gwynn Jr, Banks, Cabrera, Headley, Latos, Poreda and Richard might be fun to watch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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